(Topic ID: 180162)

Tech: ToM Magnet Blowing Fuse

By rogerdodger

7 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 69 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by pintechev
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 69 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I would think since you replaced everything, including the driver board, that the software is keeping it on too long. If you're not running v1.3, upgrade to it.

Just turned on the machine and the display reads 1.3x, so I assume that is the latest software?

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

Just turned on the machine and the display reads 1.3x, so I assume that is the latest software?

Yes. It is the latest. Thanks for checking.

#53 7 years ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

Ah! I will check this out. Thank you.

I am running the latest software and my magnets are energized less than 4 seconds.
It could be as simple as a code update, try and get the new roms.

I replaced the sensor boards and upgraded to the pinbits eddy bards and the magnet is still weaker on the left by 25%.

#54 7 years ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

Have done this and the outcome is no different.

What ! Really! You powered the right from the left feed and it blew the same fuse? That seems very unlikely if you don't mind me saying! I do not mean swap the magnets, swap the +ve feed, read the post carefully. And if you really did this then the fuse blowing is due to one of the other items on the same circuit not the magnet.
Changing the eddy sensor board is very unlikely to fix it, this is part of the switch matrix and nothing to do with power. The coil is switched -ve so the only other possible answer would be a short between the switched -ve and the +50v down stream of the coil maybe in the loom from the power board . It does happen, rarely, but could explain that with a short in the wiring loom, but this doesn't explain the same fuse blowing if you swapped the +ve feed as you say you did.

#55 7 years ago

double post

#56 7 years ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

No, I only changed the eddy boards. I did not change the little sensor boards. I will try that and report back. Thank you.

Changed the sensor and fuse still blows.

#57 7 years ago

If you are serious about fixing this, please hook up a meter with auto hold feature to the magnet and let us know what the voltage and current flow is at the time the fuse blows. The temperature would also help.

This would help diagnose if a short or over-volt condition exists.

Also please rig up a circuit breaker to a blown fuse, this will save a lot of fuses.
3 amp 250 volt mini breaker installed across the fuse will work well.

You can also check voltage and current across the fuse holder at the time it blows or trips.

#58 7 years ago

OK, well now I feel pretty stupid. Here is a new explanation.

Before I explain, I would like to apologize to all who tried to help me, especially those who went into great detail regarding testing procedures, etc., that I did not give the full story.

I just realized that I did not try energizing the left ball save magnet numerous times, to see if that blew the left magnet fuse, like the right one does. Well, guess what? When energized 2 or 3 times in quick succession, the left magnet blows its fuse, also.

As we know, the left magnet is on a different fuse and, also, a different circuit board to the right magnet fuse.

I guess this means that it cannot be a wiring short but why are they both doing this?

During the solenoid test, neither fuse will blow or get hot but, during this test, the magnets only pulse for a split second at a time, as opposed to staying energized for a few seconds.

The first time the magnet is energized (left or right), the associated fuse gets hot. The second time it is very hot (or blows) and the third time, it will blow. Bear in mind, this is if I manually press the hocus pocus target and run the ball over the eddy sensor 1, 2 or 3 times, with only a few seconds between them. Maybe I am being unreasonable as, during a real game, the chances of the magnet being energized 2 or 3 times in quick succession is very slim.

If you take the playfield glass off and test your ToM in this way, will yours blow a fuse, also?

Thanks for your understanding guys and further suggestions would be appreciated, now that you have this other information.

Roger

#59 7 years ago

So basically you are saying that the game is working properly, as its impossible to activate the magnet over and over in rapid succession.
Like I said earlier, if you hammer the magnet it blows the fuse as it should.

#60 7 years ago

Maybe now we understand why hocus pocus is disabled in multi-ball....

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

Maybe now we understand why hocus pocus is disabled in multi-ball....

Yup.

#62 7 years ago

I've been reading through your post. I just hit my left magnet 5 times in a row then my right magnet 5 times, still good.
running 1.4hb. don't think that will make any difference.

which fuse is it. maybe the fuse on mine is over amped

#63 7 years ago

nope both f904 and f105 are both 3amp fuses. kinda wish they had them labeled somewhere where like on the solenoid chart. I had to look through the schematic manual to find them

#64 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

So basically you are saying that the game is working properly, as its impossible to activate the magnet over and over in rapid succession.
Like I said earlier, if you hammer the magnet it blows the fuse as it should.

So pinballinreno, are you saying that, from my description, my game is working as it should?

Thanks.

#65 7 years ago
Quoted from rogerdodger:

So pinballinreno, are you saying that, from my description, my game is working as it should?
Thanks.

Yes, more or less for a 20 year old game.
If it doesnt blow in a game you are good to go.

#66 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Yes, more or less for a 20 year old game.
If it doesnt blow in a game you are good to go.

I don't know about that. that problem would drive me nuts until I fixed it. I would isolate all the other equipment on that circuit would need a pin extractor. also run the magnet and check how many amps the magnet is drawing.

to bad your not closer, I enjoy problems like these

#67 7 years ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

I don't know about that. that problem would drive me nuts until I fixed it. I would isolate all the other equipment on that circuit would need a pin extractor. also run the magnet and check how many amps the magnet is drawing.
to bad your not closer, I enjoy problems like these

I dont think its a huge circuit failure, maybe some leakage over time, but not a huge failure.

I bought my game NIB and if I ever energized the magnets over and over it has always blown the fuse.
i really think its a current "in rush" problem that develops enough heat to fail the fuse.

We want the huge in rush of current to trigger the magnets immediately, but we dont want the heat at the fuse associated with it.
A type of current limiter might be a good modification but the magnets are weak enough already, especially the left one.

A similar problem exists in larger sound reinforcement systems where larger subwoofers blow fuses continuously if the wall current is slightly high or if the sound is mixed or gated incorrectly.

Again the magnets in the game are very similar to driver magnets and are subject to blowing fuses.

I say, install a breaker instead of a fuse as they stand the heat better.
A circuit breaker is more suited for this particular use and has a longer duty cycle.

A lot of big drivers and subs have gone this route.

#68 7 years ago

Just realized that the adjustment for the hocus pocus target was set at 25 seconds, by the previous owner! Dropped it down to 15 seconds (factory setting) which is more than adequate, so the chances of energizing the drain magnets multiple times in succession are now dramatically reduced.

Played over 30 games since and no fuse blows!

Maybe there is nothing wrong with the game, after all!

Again many thanks to everyone who responded and attempted to help me.

#69 7 years ago

That's a nice ending. Glad you figured it out.

Marc

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