(Topic ID: 168994)

Tech Tips for doing Playfield Swap?

By calico1997

7 years ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by vid1900
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    #1 7 years ago

    I'm doing my first playfield swop on a Centaur (original playfield for a better original clear coated playfield).

    Are there any good threads, web sites, or videos with procedures for doing playfield swaps? I'm hoping there's some good DIY tips out there that I can learn from. Only thing I saw of interest on Youtube was a guy who slid all the underside wired parts onto a sheet of cardboard and then slide all that onto the new playfield, like using a pizza oven. Pretty smart.

    Thanks!

    #2 7 years ago

    Be sure to search the forums...there are a number of threads on this topic with various nuggets of good info.

    #3 7 years ago

    mof did a pretty extensive guide a while back:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-swap-guide

    #4 7 years ago

    Thanks for the great forum link, erichill.

    Read through it.

    I'm now justifiably terrified.

    #5 7 years ago

    Don't stress about it. Take lots of photos, bag and label your parts, and above all just take your time and have fun. And if you get stuck, post back here.

    One piece of advice I can offer for swapping classic Bally's is to replace every single lamp socket on the playfield. Both feature lamps and GI - don't mess around with trying to reuse these. Bally sockets from this era stink and the way they ran the lamp bus through the game makes it extremely difficult to salvage the sockets. On games like Centaur I also change the wedge style sockets over to bayonet (i.e. 44/47). Cheaper, easier to find, and better reliability.

    Chris Hutchins came up with a brilliant idea to use coin door sockets and run the lamp bus with insulated wire. Very curious to give this a shot on the next Bally PF I swap:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hg3-no-more-red-balls/page/2#post-3275472

    #6 7 years ago

    Playfield swaps are no doubt intimidating at first. It looks like a very daunting task. Sliding the underside onto a piece of cardboard is a good technique...used it once myself. The one thing you'll find, though, is that the harness tends to keep everything in place. Personally, I think it's easier to get everything loose, then get another person or two and everybody grab a portion of the harness, pick it up and move it to the new playfield. You might even find you could stuff the whole thing in a box -- like while you're restoring your playfield -- and when you pull it out and lay it back down and get a few points back in place the rest of the stuff is right where it's supposed to be.

    I equate it to doing a puzzle. Yes there's lots of pieces, but don't feel you need to do it all at once. Every time you have 10-15 minutes go screw a few things down. Screw down the harness clamps, or a pop bumper nest, or a group of lamps, or staple some of the braid down. Just pick away at it little by little and you'll realize it's not as intimidating as you once thought.

    THE most important thing is to make sure you use the right screws on the right part. It's all too easy to grab a screw from one of the mechs and use it to screw down a lamp socket only to find you just ran it through the top of the playfield. For my first swap I would grab a couple of bins with divided compartments and keep all of the screws separate. Drop target bank screws, pop bumper screws, lamps, slings, etc. all in their own compartments with notes. Inspect everything and question it here if it looks wrong. Check and double-check before you screw it into the playfield.

    #7 7 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    THE most important thing is to make sure you use the right screws on the right part. It's all too easy to grab a screw from one of the mechs and use it to screw down a lamp socket only to find you just ran it through the top of the playfield. For my first swap I would grab a couple of bins with divided compartments and keep all of the screws separate. Drop target bank screws, pop bumper screws, lamps, slings, etc. all in their own compartments with notes. Inspect everything and question it here if it looks wrong. Check and double-check before you screw it into the playfield.

    I've depopulated the underside of my Centaur pf while waiting for the new CPR to arrive, and as I removed each mech/lamp/whatever, I immediately replaced the screw right where it came from. No guessing which screws to use when it's time to install parts on the new pf.

    This seems like as good a place as any to ask this - what precaution does a pf require when you're stapling in the new ground braid? I have visions in my head of popping out the inserts from the impact of the staple gun on the other side.

    #8 7 years ago

    As said above...you can't take too many pictures. Whenever you disconnect something like lead wires to the GI braids....take a photo. After doing a few swaps, I probably only go back and look at maybe 5% of the photos I took and each time I was happy I did photo something. I like to do the undersides first...and the first thing I do is to transfer the GI lighting and get all the braid down before moving the main harness. For braid, I use 1/8" flat tinned braid....just like the main box ground braids but only 1/8" wide. Many disapprove, but I put Molex connectors on the major components so I can remove them completely....If you don't want to do that you can just remove the coils from the mechanisms and then you can systematically remove all the major mechanisms... it's surprising how much can be got out of the way before the harness transfer.

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from jibmums:

    I've depopulated the underside of my Centaur pf while waiting for the new CPR to arrive, and as I removed each mech/lamp/whatever, I immediately replaced the screw right where it came from. No guessing which screws to use when it's time to install parts on the new pf.
    This seems like as good a place as any to ask this - what precaution does a pf require when you're stapling in the new ground braid? I have visions in my head of popping out the inserts from the impact of the staple gun on the other side.

    No real prep work per se, but you'll want to work in a logical order. Since you're swapping to a new CPR playfield leave your old lamp sockets and bus wire intact to use as a guide. I'd start with cleaning excess clear out of the star rollovers then installing the t-nuts. Flip the PF over and install side rails, stainless ball guides, and wire ball guides. Way easier to do these with nothing else on the playfield. Flip the playfield back over and screw down all of the lamp sockets. Use new sockets - don't try and reuse the crappy OG Bally sockets. I also find it helps to scuff up the base of the sockets with a dremel wire wheel to help them take solder. Once sockets are in, I start at the back of the playfield and staple down the bare bus wire. It helps to "dry fit" the playfield assemblies as you go to make sure the bus wire isn't going to short against anything. Once it's all stapled down, solder the bus wire to the socket base.

    Use the correct size staples and make sure you work at the recommended PSI for your gun. You basically want to use the lowest pressure that will fully drive the staple into the PF, so start at the low end of the recommend range and only turn your regulator up if the staples aren't fully driving.

    #10 7 years ago

    Thanks for all the great information guys. I really appreciate it. I'm moving from the old playfield to a restored and cleared orignal one as I don't have a CPR. At least all the screw holes should be in the right places. I was going to replace every screw back into the old PF so I can use it as a guide of which screw goes where. I'm not interested in tumbling screws from the underside. They're already in quite good shape.

    #11 7 years ago

    Even though pulling the harness over is a good technique for simplicity I sake. I would recommend cleaning the harness after you pull it out & before reinstalling, as it holds a tremendous amount of dirt/gunk (I do simple green, soak a few mins, quick rinse, repeat as necessary, & dry quickly). I did this on my first full swap and was happy I did as that's the best way to keep a machine clean. Requires a lot of patience and time, but worth the effort IMHO.

    Other than that, definitely agree with what others have said:

    * take your time, take a break when you're tired or annoyed
    * take WAY more pics than you think you need
    * I use labeled bags to keep track of screws/hardware
    * I like to trace/label parts in pencil when they are on the old playfield (I use a system). e.g. Lamps: "L1, L2, L3..." Switches: "S1, S2, S3" -- also helps to label these parts with sharpie/masking tape on the harness if you plan to do the extra washing step

    #12 7 years ago

    Yeah, definitely easier to swap to a restored used playfield than a new repro for that very reason. You do however still need to pre-drill the holes on the top of the playfield with a brad point bit. Otherwise you risk fracturing the clear when you drive a screw/ball guide into it.

    I do recommend you replace all of the lamp socket screws. These are usually covered in old solder and flux, and generally pretty gross looking. Pinball Life sells a decent match. They'e a little brass colored, but I'll take this over 30-year old flux any day of the week.

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=224

    All other hardware I reuse and put through an ultrasonic cleaner. Takes 3 minutes and they usually come out looking brand new.

    #13 7 years ago

    Take a lot of pictures and when your done with that take some more pictures.
    Label wires with masking tape so when you desolder coils and mechs you know where they go too.
    Get some colored pencils and make notes on old playfield, outline brackets, etc.
    Using some extra zip ties helps keep wires together were you want them when you transfer.
    Here are some examples when I did my FT swap
    Hope that helps.

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    #15 7 years ago

    As Tom shows in his FT above, tracing all the component locations with a sharp pencil can save mega time when using it as a guide alongside the new playfield.

    -

    In areas of dense sockets, you can use adhesive copper foil to run power to each light socket.

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    -

    and of course, never reuse those plastic body #555ebd02 (resized).jpgebd02 (resized).jpg lamp holders from Bally.

    Total crap, and not worth the frustration of trying to find the bad ones after you move them.

    Always replace with a #44 metal socket.

    #16 7 years ago

    Nothing to worry about. I did several swaps when I worked for a route operator before the internet and digital cameras we all carry in our pockets.

    Take everything off the top, flip over and take everything off the bottom. Transfer to new PF.

    Installation is the reverse of removal.

    No rotisserie needed. Just laid down a few old beach towels on a workbench. Biggest pain was the lamp return wires on the #44 sockets.

    #17 7 years ago

    The added benefit of cleaning the harness is it forces you to inspect the wiring. You will find nicks and cuts in the harness you wouldn't have seen otherwise.

    #18 7 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Nothing to worry about. I did several swaps when I worked for a route operator before the internet and digital cameras we all carry in our pockets.
    Take everything off the top, flip over and take everything off the bottom. Transfer to new PF.
    Installation is the reverse of removal.
    No rotisserie needed. Just laid down a few old beach towels on a workbench. Biggest pain was the lamp return wires on the #44 sockets.

    +1 Single level early SS games don't need a rotisserie. I actually think they're easier to swap without one.

    I will add though that the older style Bally pop bumper body is just slightly taller than a side rail so you'll need to support the ends of the playfield to give them enough clearance. Not sure about the style Centaur uses, but definitely double check before throwing it on a table.

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    #19 7 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Take everything off the top, flip over and take everything off the bottom. Transfer to new PF.

    I'm really glad someone said something like this.

    I'm going to be doing a swap on my Whirlwind this winter. I've sorta just decided to go the route of exactly what you said: Literally just transplant everything to the new playfield. Everyone else on here has these massive restoration threads where they make it look like you must scrub every wire and cable, and if I didn't stick my harness in a dishwasher, I'm doing something wrong.

    It's not that I don't want to take advantage of the opportunity to have the cleanest game in the world, I just want a playfield that doesn't look like a planking paint loss disaster--with the least amount of nonsense to worry about.

    #20 7 years ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I'm really glad someone said something like this.
    I'm going to be doing a swap on my Whirlwind this winter. I've sorta just decided to go the route of exactly what you said: Literally just transplant everything to the new playfield. Everyone else on here has these massive restoration threads where they make it look like you must scrub every wire and cable, and if I didn't stick my harness in a dishwasher, I'm doing something wrong.
    It's not that I don't want to take advantage of the opportunity to have the cleanest game in the world, I just want a playfield that doesn't look like a planking paint loss disaster--with the least amount of nonsense to worry about.

    The response from Pinsiders here is so helpful, I cannot thank you enough. I'm learning a LOT from reading the responses and frankly, just spending a lot of time looking at the underside of my Centaur playfield is teaching me a lot. It helps to fully understand how everything is connected together.

    I guess using new 44 sockets are better than new 555 wedge sockets? Good thing I did not load up on 555 LEDs before doing this : )

    Tracing with a pencil around all the main parts and maybe the braid wire is brilliant.

    I understand the why Freeplay40 says to molex all the coils, but frankly that seems like it would take a little more time than just clipping and resoldering them and I don't expect to replace coils all that often.

    I've had filthy machines where the crud in the wire harness is so bad you can't see the colors. But on this particular machine the insides are so clean it is hard to believe it is from 1981. It looks only a few years old in there. Even the coin door wires were clean, accept for some kind of cola spill. Here's a pic of the cabinet bottm BEFORE I did any cleaning.

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    #21 7 years ago

    Would be nice to have a rotisserie but maybe I'd get one if I do more swaps in the future. For now, just two really large folding tables, side by side, seems like the ticket. I fully agree, some big towels under the PFs sounds like a good idea. The pop bumper bodies may indeed need to be supported, as someone previously pointed out.

    One unavoidable problem for me personally is CATS! They mess with everything when I'm not around. They especially like to knock little things off tables and then bat them around until they disappear. My strategy is to keep everything covered in blankets when not working on it. (yes, there's also a forum thread on cats and pinball).

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    #22 7 years ago

    Here's the subject of discussion.

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    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from calico1997:

    One unavoidable problem for me personally is CATS! They mess with everything when I'm not around.

    This is also my biggest problem. It doesn't help that their litter boxes are in the basement in a closet in the gameroom either, so I couldn't even lock them out of the room if I wanted too... Ugh. If only they weren't adorable little murder machines.

    I've been thinking about this swap for months now, and I'm probably going to head in the same direction you are: Two tables, side by side, and just transplant everything 1.

    If I recall, Rob Craig covers an ultra quick down and dirty method of swapping playfields in his DVD "Life after Death II." It might be worth checking that out.

    #24 7 years ago

    Just what is it about the 81 Bally wedge light sockets that has everyone complaining? Obviously they must suck since everyone agrees on that. But why? They seem to all be fine and working properly. Do they break during the swap or something?

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from calico1997:

    Just what is it about the 81 Bally wedge light sockets that has everyone complaining? Obviously they must suck since everyone agrees on that. But why? They seem to all be fine and working properly. Do they break during the swap or something?

    The two pieces of metal separate, so they work, then heat up, then don't work.

    It's maddening.

    A poor design, make worse by poor materials.

    Pin-hacks will try to solder a jumper over where the metal separates, but the old oxidized metal does not solder well, even with fresh flux. The sand in the dishwasher detergent blasts away some of the oxidation, but not enough to make it solder nicely; it seems like the remaining base metal does not want to be soldered.

    -

    They sucked before you disturbed their 40 year resting place - then once you move them, it's beyond suckage.

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