Tech: This Getaway is KILLING me!

Please just shoot me now. This thing has had me running in circles and pulling my hair out like a noob for weeks.
Problem: HSII, The Getaway, locked on shooter coil.
Current Situation: Brand new MPU AND SDB. Brand New mini aux hi-current board that supplies extra current to that coil. Coil tests 3.1 ohms as it should. Transistor and diode on NEW SDB replaced, just in case. Connectors at sdb and aux board replaced. Ribbon cable from mpu to sdb replaced. All switches on shifter good. (I disconnected the shifter--no dice.)

WTF? Please. Someone throw me a bone; give me SOMETHING else to try!

#2 4 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

10y 95,050 8,699

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
WTF? Please. Someone throw me a bone; give me SOMETHING else to try!

Does it lock on with the P/F in the raised position?

#3 4 years ago

ART

MrArt2u

Pinside member

Los Angeles, CA

12y 65,400 1,471 16

I like where Grumpy is going with this.

#4 4 years ago

JMR

pinballplusMN

Pinball Plus Inc.

11y 84,800 2,588

Remove coil and see if wrapper is worn shorting to bracket.

#5 4 years ago

GMK

grantopia

Pinside member

Fairview Park, OH

8y 99,600 3,561 8

Quoted from pinballplusMN:
Remove coil and see if wrapper is worn shorting to bracket.

Happened on my No Fear. A stray coil winding was just grazing the bracket and grounding out.

#6 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
Does it lock on with the P/F in the raised position?

Fixed a HSII like this once....when in lowered position habitrail was touching grounded hinge bolt in cabinet. So happened a switch lug was touching habitrail, so it acted as one big conductor.

#7 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Sorry Boiz! Does it with playfield up or down. Checked for short to habitrail. No dice. It ain't there.
Coil wrap is bueno. Nothing is touching.
Next theory?

#8 4 years ago

237

slochar

Pinside member

7y 86,550 6,875

Coil have diode backwards? Disconnect coil measure circuit see if still activated?

Try to isolate what's mechanical based in nature (mech) and what's electrical (boards) and go from there.

It's def. locked on and not just activating, then (mechanically) binding?

#9 4 years ago

ROB

Rdoyle1978

Pinside member

7y 117K 18,130 14 6 1

Id triple check your transistor soldering job

#10 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Quoted from slochar:
Coil have diode backwards? Disconnect coil measure circuit see if still activated?

Coil diodes are on sdb. Already replaced.

Quoted from slochar:
It's def. locked on and not just activating, then (mechanically) binding?

No doubt locked. Plunger slides back easily when power is removed.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:
Id triple check your transistor soldering job

Did. Also, it's a new sdb, and it was locking on before I swapped out the transistor.

Keep 'em coming!

#11 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Do Rottendog sdb's have predriver transistors?

#12 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

Do you have a logic probe? Next step is to check the data buffer ic chip....I believe the RD boards dont have predriver transistors...straight from the ic through a resistor to the power transistor.

As a quick test pull the connector associated with that coils ground signal. If it stays locked, short in pf. If it releases, board problem.

#13 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/846ba2_6dcb501571a04b578f46eeea2c69d692.pdf
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/846ba2_61268dbaf4154fe59393c9e0d3c29b7e.pdf

Quoted from robertmee:
Do you have a logic probe?

Yes. But all I have for a schematic is for the original board, not the RD. Which chip would it be?

Quoted from robertmee:
As a quick test pull the connector associated with that coils ground signal. If it stays locked, short in pf. If it releases, board problem.

I think that's j127, and I think we tried that and it stayed locked on... and I think it's the RD SDB I've been saying it's the board all along, but the tranny and diode tested good...

#14 4 years ago

FNG

DumbAss

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 109K 2,976

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
But all I have for a schematic is for the original board, not the RD.

#15 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
Yes. But all I have for a schematic is for the original board, not the RD. Which chip would it be?

I think that's j127, and I think we tried that and it stayed locked on... and I think it's the RD SDB I've been saying it's the board all along, but the tranny and diode tested good...

If J127 is correct, and you pulled it, and it stayed locked on, then you ha e a short in the pf somewhere. I dont have the manual in front of me...which Q transistor is the shooter?

#16 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,268

Quoted from robertmee:
.which Q transistor is the shooter?

sol12 HS2.jpg

#17 4 years ago

WTF

FlippinJimmy

Inactive member

Biloxi, MS

4y 43,150 392 8

So much talent on Pinside. Awesome to see everyone help out.

#18 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

Quoted from zaza:
[quoted image]

So from this diagram, remove j127...if coil stays locked on, then driver board probably ok...next it becomes harder because the j1,j2 high power board supplies both power and ground.

I would remove the wire from the j2, pin5 onnector. If coil stays locked, playfield short. If coil releases, then probably Q1 in that diagram is shorted.

#19 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

The machine is at a pinbrotato's house, so I'll have to wait until next weekend to go thru this list...
But, I think it releases if you disconnect either j107 or j127.
The diagram is of the mini high current board that we replaced with new. But I'm also pretty sure I tested that tranny too anyway. But not the diode!

Quoted from DumbAss:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/846ba2_6dcb501571a04b578f46eeea2c69d692.pdf
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/846ba2_61268dbaf4154fe59393c9e0d3c29b7e.pdf

Thanks, Dumbass! (I love saying that without fear of insulting!)

#20 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,268

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
I think that's j127, and I think we tried that and it stayed locked on

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
But, I think it releases if you disconnect either j107 or j127.

I think I'm confused now

#21 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

Quoted from zaza:
I think I'm confused now

Yeah, me too. Remove J127, If it releases, it's the main board. If it stays locked on, then it's something downstream...high power board or playfield wiring.

#22 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Quoted from zaza:
I think I'm confused now

Sorry Daddio... I had to go look at a buncha texts and I didn't have my glasses. I'm doing a lot of this by distance too, since the machine is 20 minutes away... I am pretty sure it releases if you disconnect either one: j107 or j127

#23 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
Sorry Daddio... I had to go look at a buncha texts and I didn't have my glasses. I'm doing a lot of this by distance too, since the machine is 20 minutes away... I am pretty sure it releases if you disconnect either one: j107 or j127

Then it's the main board....R86, Q52, pin 16 of U4 IC. Pull J127 so you're not locking on coil and with logic probe check pin 16 of U4. Compare it to the other pins in the diagram for the other coils. If pin 16 is different, then U4 ic is bad. If it is the same, then likely q52 is bad.

Screenshot_20190902-155912_Drive (resized).jpg

#24 4 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,268

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
I am pretty sure it releases if you disconnect either one: j107 or j127

Ok, when it releases as J127 is disconnected, the problem is most likely on the powerdriverboard.

#25 4 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

8y 103K 3,996 11

Quoted from zaza:
Ok, when it releases as J127 is disconnected, the problem is most likely on the powerdriverboard.

Could also be nothing more than a bad ribbon cable between the MPU and driver board...I would try flipping it over to rule it out.

#26 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Quoted from robertmee:
Then it's the main board....

Quoted from zaza:
Ok, when it releases as J127 is disconnected, the problem is most likely on the powerdriverboard.

Umm... This is a good example of the tail chasing I'm doing on this one.

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
Could also be nothing more than a bad ribbon cable between the MPU and driver board...I would try flipping it over to rule it out.

Ribbon Cable Replaced.

#27 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Quoted from robertmee:
I would remove the wire from the j2, pin5 onnector. If coil stays locked, playfield short.

I will have my pinbromigo do this tonight.

#28 4 years ago

SBS

o-din

Pinside+ Addict

11y 158K 58,774

Is there a diode on the coil? If so cut it off. I had that on my Getaway. Locked the coil on. Diodes should be on the board, not the coil.

#29 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
Umm... This is a good example of the tail chasing I'm doing on this one.

Ribbon Cable Replaced.

No, it's a matter of semantics. My apologies...by main board I meant the power driver board not the high powered sub board. We were talking about the same thing. U4 needs to be checked as I suggested which is on the driver board.

#30 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
I will have my pinbromigo do this tonight.

I dont think you need to do this anymore. This was suggested when you said ealrier that j127 removal the coil stayed locked on. Then you changed that later that removing j127 the coil releases. Have to be as accurate as possible in descriptions otherwise we all go down chasing rabbits.

#31 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Quoted from o-din:
Is there a diode on the coil? If so cut it off. I had that on my Getaway. Locked the coil on. Diodes should be on the board, not the coil.

Coil diodes are on sdb. C'mon Cowboy, I done sayed that allready...

Quoted from robertmee:
No, it's a matter of semantics. My apologies...by main board I meant the power driver board not the high powered sub board. We were talking about the same thing. U4 needs to be checked as I suggested which is on the driver board.

Got it. That's top of the list. I really think it's the sdb, even though it's new.
I checked my texts with the owner. Removing EITHER J127 OR J107 releases the lock. Sorry. Like I said... I wasn't wearing my dollah sto' spex when I was reading the texts...

#32 4 years ago

robertmee

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
Coil diodes are on sdb. C'mon Cowboy, I done sayed that allready...

Got it. That's top of the list. I really think it's the sdb, even though it's new.
I checked my texts with the owner. Removing EITHER J127 OR J107 releases the lock. Sorry. Like I said... I wasn't wearing my dollah sto' spex when I was reading the texts...

No problem....at this point I would be leaning towards Q52 or U4.

#33 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Quoted from robertmee:
at this point I would be leaning towards Q52 or U4.

Q52 has been replaced and the new one tests good. I even replaced the diode on the sdb that goes with q52.
Aint nuthin left but U4... Fingers crossed

#34 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

OP
Quoted from fireball2:
Q52 has been replaced

Did you replace it with a TIP102? If so, that transistor is not what is used on the Rottendog power driver board and is not a compatible replacement part for that board.

Correct transistor is a 20N10L but a IRL540 can be substituted.

#35 4 years ago

JON

bigehrl

Jackbar

New York, NY

12y 97,150 3,829 79

what the hell is a pinbromigo?? and if it’s what i think, how can i as a self-respecting adult, believe anything you say going forward??

#36 4 years ago

WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

I can't stop laughing

#37 4 years ago

STK

flynnibus

Pinside+ Frequent

11y 134K 13,218

I would have started by simply trying to isolate the playfield from the boards.

See if the control lead to the coil is testing to ground. If it is... you know it’s a short or up on the board. Disconnect the connector on the board and test again... if still to ground then you know it’s a short on the pf. If not... move further up the chain to the connector itself. Unplug and test the pins while the game is live.

A coil firing is simply the controlled lead going to ground... use that knowledge to test that condition... remember the transistors are just doing that job by cpu control.

#38 4 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

12y 97,050 6,029 10

Quoted from zaza:
[quoted image]

Nice, Zaza you're the best bro
You too Robertmee, you've both helped me a few times in the past.

2 weeks later

#39 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member

Finally got back to this! And...

Quoted from robertmee:
No problem....at this point I would be leaning towards Q52 or U4.

Winner! U4 pin 16 shows waaaay different reading from the rest... Looks like we might be onto something! Gonna order and replace the chip and we'll see... But I think this is it!

1 month later

#40 4 years ago

fireball2

Pinside member