(Topic ID: 37935)

Tech: Theatre of magic (ToM) trunk

By markmon

11 years ago


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#1 11 years ago

My theatre of magic trunk will intermittently shut itself down with trunk error. This intermittently happens after hitting the trunk with the ball moving. After running a trunk test, the trunk is fine again for a while then it intermittently happens again. It always stops in the same transition spot if it stop at all - while traveling counter clockwise from the magnet to the next panel.

When trunk is moving, it seems to move steady and fast. It does not move slowly or jerky. Nothing appears to be binding. I have done:

- replaced trunk opto board. There are no errors during test
- replaced the opto interrupter with the metal one.
- taken apart the gearbox and cleaned, regreased with superlube (after doing this, the problem seems less frequent and seems to ways require hitting the trunk while it's moving)
- I have run trunk test while wiggling the opto connector and wires several times and I cannot reproduce any issues while doing that.
- I've also replaced the trunk motor board on a last ditch effort.

I contacted kimballs pinballs to get a new motor since I've pretty much exhausted other avenues. He thinks the motor is probably ok since it is moving smoothly. He also thinks repinning the opto connector is a wasted effort since he says these don't go out often and wiggling it can't repro trunk errors.

Suggestions?

#2 11 years ago

my guess would be to replace the gearbox. talked to someone who had the same issue and the gearbox was it.

#3 11 years ago

it was actually today, was talking to the guy who has a list of pins for sale in north jersey on craigslist, (called about his medieval) talked for 20+ minutes about what pins we had, and when i mentioned i had a theatre he went on to tell me about his trunk shutting the game down on him. after replacing the gearbox, his issue went away.

#4 11 years ago

Glad I picked up that spare while they are available (not cheap though)

#5 11 years ago

Williams ought to send all the pinsiders a whole new trunk setup for all the grief it gives us

#6 11 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

Williams ought to send all the pinsiders a whole new trunk setup for all the grief it gives us

and a shaker motor kit too

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

and a shaker motor kit too

It would probably mess up the magna save optos LOL

#8 11 years ago

Unfortunately, replacing the gear box is not an option since it is no longer available. Besides, when I took it apart to clean it, it looked to be in great shape.

#9 11 years ago

Mark,
I have Repaired many TOM 14-8018, MB 14-8034 & I-500 14-8021.1 Gearboxes & have yet to see 1 with bad or stripped Gears, it has always been the 12V Motors Commutator/Brushes getting ruined by the Williams/Bally excuse for a Gear-Lube (the mysterious green liquid goo that turns solid after 10-15 years + it seems to be somewhat acidic 8-}).

If you are still getting a Trunk Error after rebuilding your Trunk Gearbox assembly & it is running smoothly a new 12V Motor will most likely fix the issue (running to slow for the Game code usually causes an error message).

Also be sure to reflow all the IDC Pins on the Trunk Motor Controller Board as that can cause it to run slow/intermediately as well.

I also offer a complete Gearbox Service - you send me your TOM Gearbox, I disassemble, clean, re-lube (w/Synthetic Lube), remove your Motors Brass Gear, press it onto the NOS Motor Shaft, includes a new Wiring Harness.

Bare 12V Motors are $35 shipped in the US (outside the US is $30 + actual shipping costs) - I also sell them with a new Wiring Harness @ $50.
You can also send me just your 12V Motor & I'll gladly remove the Brass Gear & install it on a new 12V Motor @ no extra charge.

For those that are Mechanically inclined here is the Micro gear Puller I use to SAFELY remove the Gear.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=gws+micro+gear+puller+tool&oq=gws+micro+gear+puller+tool&gs_l=serp.3...74070.94591.5.95539.10.10.0.0.0.3.667.3222.1j2j0j3j1j2.9.0.les%3B..1.0...1c.1.Man7WjxqWx8&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41524429,d.b2I&fp=ab9bfcbdb4241013&biw=1097&bih=586

Pin - K

www.KimballsPinballs.com

#10 11 years ago

Mark,

Forgot to mention this -make sure you are running the latest S/W Code

Pin - K

www.KimballsPinballs.com

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

and a shaker motor kit too

Putting a shaker motor in TOM would be an abomination.

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Unfortunately, replacing the gear box is not an option since it is no longer available. Besides, when I took it apart to clean it, it looked to be in great shape.

ebay.com link: 14 8018 THEATRE OF MAGIC Trunk Motor Gearbox pinball

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from kmoore88:

Putting a shaker motor in TOM would be an abomination.

Think it thru- it would include the option to disable it or enable it will!

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Think it thru- it would include the option to disable it or enable it will!

LOL. You're missing my point.

#15 11 years ago
Quoted from kmoore88:

LOL. You're missing my point.

I suppose the tiger saw mod is an abomination too then!

#16 11 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I suppose the tiger saw mod is an abomination too then!

Nope, that is waaaaay cool. Also,it (the saw motor) was planned in the beginning by jpop but later cut due to budget. I don't believe a shaker was ever planned for. Some older pins are screaming for a shaker (MM and the castle for example) while others it would detract from (like TOM IMO)

#17 11 years ago

Mark,

Take the trunk cover off and watch what happens when it errors. Hit it gently by hand and see if the amount of force determines whether or not it errors. It sounds like opto misalignment but who knows. Does it happen when the trunk is in a specific position? Open / Closed / Magnet ?

#18 11 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Mark,
Take the trunk cover off and watch what happens when it errors. Hit it gently by hand and see if the amount of force determines whether or not it errors. It sounds like opto misalignment but who knows. Does it happen when the trunk is in a specific position? Open / Closed / Magnet ?

It seems to always be in a similar position while moving from the magnet panel. It also seems more likely if it was moving and hitting it causes it to change directions. It's pretty hard to replicate. Sometimes I can play the game for a couple hours without reproducing it. Other times it happens inside 30 minutes. I've tried banging on it a lot while it's running to reproduce but can't. It seems to know when I'm having a decent game and mess up then

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from kmoore88:

while others it would detract from (like TOM IMO)

To each his own, I Guess. I played this game when it was new and loved it, but now compared to some of my machines that surround it it is starting to feel like a dead fish when I play it. Some of the sound and visual effects are just screaming for a little motion to enhance the overall feel of the game. Since I know this will probably never happen, I will go ahead and LED it out, add some color and drop a Gladiators next to it. How bout a little contact shaker!

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Try this.....

I did that , functions MUCH better, still get a rare error, machine is much more enjoyable!

#22 11 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

I did that , functions MUCH better, still get a rare error, machine is much more enjoyable!

Check what ROM version you are running.
Adjust EDDY board pot
Flow all opto connections and clean them.
Check interrupter wheel for correct placement and no cracks.

#23 11 years ago

Thanks but I listed that as my third bulletpoint as already done

Quoted from cal50:

Check what ROM version you are running.
Adjust EDDY board pot
Flow all opto connections and clean them.
Check interrupter wheel for correct placement and no cracks.

I have a brand new opto board as it was replaced when debugging this. A brand new opto interrupter with no cracks. What would the eddy board have to do with this? Would like to understand this theory.

#24 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Thanks but I listed that as my third bulletpoint as already done

I have a brand new opto board as it was replaced when debugging this. A brand new opto interrupter with no cracks. What would the eddy board have to do with this? Would like to understand this theory.

Some say or claim the LED from the eddy board can affect the trunk opto's and give it a false reading. The same people claim putting a piece of tape or tubing over the LED fixed their problem.
I am not entirely buying into that but I suppose its possible. Hey if it works.......

Adjust the pot so the red LED light goes out and is not always lit was what I was shooting for.
If that in front of the trunk eddy is out of adjustment you will get a funky multiball at times (on my ROM anyway). The clue is hitting multiball and no music when the animation is starting on the DMD.

#25 11 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

The clue is hitting multiball and no music when the animation is starting on the DMD.

You mean that electricity sound before the dude says "Multiball". I was missing that too until I replaced a bad trunk magnet and adjusted the eddy pot.

#26 11 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You mean that electricity sound before the dude says "Multiball". I was missing that too until I replaced a bad trunk magnet and adjusted the eddy pot.

Yep. that's it.

If the eddy is out of adjustment or the LED solidly lit you will be missing the sound prior to MB.

#27 11 years ago

I was unable to repair this problem on my TOM. Replaced just about everything and never resolved anything. Hitting the trunk during it's movement phase seems to confuse/mess things up. Reading about how common this is with this particular table I'm inclined to believe it's a software bug or something along that line. Good luck though and please post if you are able to resolve.

#28 11 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Some say or claim the LED from the eddy board can affect the trunk opto's and give it a false reading. The same people claim putting a piece of tape or tubing over the LED fixed their problem.
I am not entirely buying into that but I suppose its possible. Hey if it works.......
Adjust the pot so the red LED light goes out and is not always lit was what I was shooting for.
If that in front of the trunk eddy is out of adjustment you will get a funky multiball at times (on my ROM anyway). The clue is hitting multiball and no music when the animation is starting on the DMD.

I see. My Eddy is adjusted fine. If the eddy is always lit then trunk hits don't register and you can't start modes. Eddy always lit = trunk hit switch stuck on. You'd also get a credit dot relatively quickly

#29 11 years ago
Quoted from TomN:

I was unable to repair this problem on my TOM. Replaced just about everything and never resolved anything. Hitting the trunk during it's movement phase seems to confuse/mess things up. Reading about how common this is with this particular table I'm inclined to believe it's a software bug or something along that line. Good luck though and please post if you are able to resolve.

Its not that common (trunk issues) and mine did the same until I really went thru it.
Cleaning the gear box was the biggest fix. The trunk rotates twice as fast and smooth. I think I am running ROM 1.3.

#30 11 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I see. My Eddy is adjusted fine. If the eddy is always lit then trunk hits don't register and you can't start modes. Eddy always lit = trunk hit switch stuck on. You'd also get a credit dot relatively quickly

Correct.
I always turn the adjustment pot to its max travel clockwise and CCW a few times to hopefully "clean" the contacts then set the adjustment. Following that I test it with a ball.

1 week later
#31 11 years ago

Ok I took kmoore88's advice and bought the trunk motor assembly off that eBay link and now everything is working great. The motor had more play than the previous one. I had to widen the opto interrupter opening a bit due to this. But everything is stable. I think I'll send my old one to kimballs pinballs to rebuild.

#32 11 years ago

They are down to three left. Is that the end of the road for NOS ToM gearbox and motors?

#33 11 years ago

For those having similar issues to me, here is a rundown of what I suggest:

The trunk software sucks. It turns off the trunk when it doesn't have to. If while turning it gets a mixed signal on trunk position it disables. If the trunk doesn't hit its destination in time if disables. Troubleshooting intermittent trunk shutdowns is annoying.

The first thing is to check the opto board and opto interrupter. And hope and pray this is the cause. In trunk test with the playfield lifted, run the trunk trst. Notice the trunk positions are in the Dmd. Now while the trunk is moving start wiggling connectors. Wiggle the connector attached to the opto board. Wiggle the trunk motor power board connector. If you can get the trunk to error by wiggling these feel very thankful. You can solve the problem likely by repinning these connectors or the glowing solder on those connectors on the board.

The opto interrupter should be solid. The optos on the opto board should be solid when the interrupter is open and off when closed. Any flickering or partially lit led on that board, time to replace. I suggest replacing this board as a first step anyway. It's usually the cause.

Next verify your trunk eddy sensor is calibrated. Make sure the light isn't flickering and only triggers when the ball is rolling over the trunk area. This is how trunk hits are determined. Often these get out of calibration and you have to adjust them with a jewelers screwdriver. There are three eddy boards in this machine. One for the trunk and one for each outlane. This is how the ball is sensed for the magnetic hocus pocus saves.

Ok if that stuff didn't solve it then time to start looking at the trunk movement. Likely it's not reaching its destination in time. This is the worst problem to have. There is a thread here on pinside that talks about taking apart and cleaning / relubing your trunk gearbox. This is your next step. Instructions here: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-your-tom-trunk-is-acting-up-clean-the-gear-boxjunk-in-the-trunk

If this didnt solve it, time for a new trunk motor, gearbox, or send it to kimballs pinballs for refurbishing.

#34 11 years ago

Thanks Mark!

I will keep update on my Box...see how it goes down!

#35 11 years ago

I recently had a nightmare fixing my trunk, the trunk would stop diagonally and you would have to shut off & on. Here's what I did, I replaced the trunk motor, cleaned out the gearbox, added new pinbits eddy switches and it still did it. The problem went away after I replaced the opto board for the trunk and I also put one of those aluminum interrupters, the thing works like a champ. I don't think the software is the problem (BTW I updated to the newer revision too), I spoke to JPOP about this and his reply was "The trunk should be active the whole game in some fashion. It should never stop at 45 degrees also".

1 year later
#36 10 years ago

Had the same problem as most people...shooting the trunk while rotating gave me a trunk error.
In test everything checked out and the problem stayed away a while and then resurfaced again.

Cleaned out and re-lubed the gearbox and a new motor from KimballsPinballs...and the problem is now gone!

1 year later
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