Tech: T3 sound issues

So I was playing my T3 tonight with the wife when all of a sudden Arnold started shouting the "Go" of the hurry up sequence at a rapid pace. It was high pitched and fast. After shutting it down, I fired up the machine again and I had no sound at all. 2 of my LED's on the back board were not lit. I powered down and swapped some fuses around and got my sound back. However, throughout game play, I would still get some high pitched "Go"'s scattered in.

I ran an extensive manual test on the play field and it didn't seem to be triggered by any one element on the table.

Any ideas on what could possibly be happening? Do I have some fuses going bad? Are my eproms coming loose?( I tried manually reseating all ROMS). No spare fuses on hand, but plan on getting a new set tomorrow and going all new. Is this symptomatic of Stern tables at all?

Appreciate any input or advice.

#2 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Strange. I doubt you'll find much posted about similar issues.
Which fuses blew, and what power circuits do they fuse (check your manual)?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#3 10 years ago

MVM

markmon

Inactive member

Hillsboro, OR

13y 98,300 13,010 21 81

Yea, please explain "I swapped some fuses around".

#4 10 years ago

?Z?

phishrace

Pinside member

Unknown

12y 46,900 4,913

OP
Quoted from Elfman:
So I was playing my T3 tonight with the wife when all of a sudden Arnold started shouting the "Go" of the hurry up sequence at a rapid pace.

Did the hurryup sequence start? Lights, ect? If yes, it's a switch issue. Likely the command center switch. If not, carefully reseat your sound roms while checking the sockets and pins closely. Also, make sure your sound and game roms match. I believe T3 got more than one version of sound roms. You likely would've noticed a mismatch by now, but since you're having sound issues, it's worth a check.

#5 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Yea, please explain "I swapped some fuses around".

Apologies for the vagueness. I essentially removed fuses from F7 to F23 and had them switch spots. When I looked, it was LED 200 and 201 that we dark before I swapped. I ran a DMM continuity test on them last week and all fuses tested fine. Haven't looked in the manual yet to track down what they control.

I just fired up the game again and didn't really have any issues for the 5 minutes I ran the table and test. Before, the machine had been on for about a hour in attract mode. So I am not sure if it is possible a cap going bad or if it is a degraded fuse or EPROM.

Appreciate any input and thanks for looking!

IMG_3192.JPG IMG_3193.JPG

#6 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Quoted from phishrace:
Did the hurryup sequence start? Lights, ect? If yes, it's a switch issue. Likely the command center switch. If not, carefully reseat your sound roms while checking the sockets and pins closely. Also, make sure your sound and game roms match. I believe T3 got more than one version of sound roms. You likely would've noticed a mismatch by now, but since you're having sound issues, it's worth a check.

Hurry Up did not activate. It was just "speaking" over the current mode rapidly.

As for the ROM mismatch, yeah, I have had the game for about two weeks an hadn't noticed anything up until tonight. Just seems odd that it would crop up after sitting idle for about an hour or so.

#7 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Here is some video of the symptoms.

It sounds possessed. Otherwise, the game has been working great for the week I have had it.

#8 10 years ago

?Z?

phishrace

Pinside member

Unknown

12y 46,900 4,913

Damb. That's friggin creepy. I'm gonna have Terminator nightmares tonight after watching that.

Missed earlier that you tried reseating the roms. Couldn't hurt to try a factory reset.

#9 10 years ago

JON

bigehrl

Jackbar

New York, NY

12y 97,150 3,829 79

my t3 has weird sound issues too!

once every 2 or 3 days (while on for 12 hours a day on route), it'll scream every sound in the machine at max volume for about 1-2 seconds. scares the s#it out of everyone in the shop. so funny to watch everyone jump out of they're skin!

i know t3 has always had sound and reset issues (especially during assault) due to the design. it's even in the operator's memo on stern's site, even w the newest rom and sound version.

btw i put all LED flashers in to battle the resets and it cut it by about 80%

-jon

#10 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Quoted from bigehrl:
my t3 has weird sound issues too!
once every 2 or 3 days (while on for 12 hours a day on route), it'll scream every sound in the machine at max volume for about 1-2 seconds. scares the s#it out of everyone in the shop. so funny to watch everyone jump out of they're skin!
i know t3 has always had sound and reset issues (especially during assault) due to the design. it's even in the operator's memo on stern's site, even w the newest rom and sound version.
btw i put all LED flashers in to battle the resets and it cut it by about 80%
-jon

Very interesting and good to know. Haven't had this machine reset on its own yet but it does seem to be temperamental with its flashers. My back 4 wall flasher bank (Q30) blew a transistor. Hoping to fix that soon. Also the flasher in the T-X arm keeps blowing the bulb out. Not sure if at all related though. I am planning to replace all of them with LEDs soon though.

Did a quick play test last night after I re-seated some connections on the I/O board and it wasn't happening then. I'll monitor it today and if it happens again, I may try a factory reset.

#11 10 years ago

JGC

dragster73

Jerry Claue

New Baltimore, MI

11y 33,650 81 25

I have repaired 3 White Star CPU board with similar sound problems in the past month.

#12 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Quoted from dragster73:
I have repaired 3 White Star CPU board with similar sound problems in the past month.

So what was it that you actually fixed? Or maybe I should say what would cause something like this? Not that I am skilled enough to manage this myself but the knowledge may help others troubleshoot.

I just finished another play session and it seemed to work just fine but I am nervous that it will come back.

#13 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Rats! Just played again and it came back. Not as bad as in the video, but it was there.

So I am going to blame the Whitestar Sound OS on this one as referenced by this service bulletin: http://www.sternpinball.com/SB/ServiceBulletin_157.html

I checked my LED1 flashes at it looks like I am version 2 of the sound OS. They have since released up to version 8.

Now my problem is that I don't have an EPROM burner to burn this version of the bootFLASH to a 512K chip. Not sure I am confident enough to go down the path.

Does anyone know where I might obtain this bootFLASH chip? Could I even possibly borrow one from someone who might have one?

#14 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

OP
Quoted from Elfman:
Rats! Just played again and it came back. Not as bad as in the video, but it was there.
So I am going to blame the Whitestar Sound OS on this one as referenced by this service bulletin: http://www.sternpinball.com/SB/ServiceBulletin_157.html
I checked my LED1 flashes at it looks like I am version 2 of the sound OS. They have since released up to version 8.
Now my problem is that I don't have an EPROM burner to burn this version of the bootFLASH to a 512K chip. Not sure I am confident enough to go down the path.
Does anyone know where I might obtain this bootFLASH chip? Could I even possibly borrow one from someone who might have one?

Uh-oh.
Do you have the WhiteStar MPU, or the modified (Atmel based) WhiteStar MPU.
Backward compatibility between the two is dicey.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#15 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

To be brutally honest, I don't know.

But after looking at PinWiki, it looks like I have 520-5300-00 Rev A which is what the service bulletin refers to.

What does that mean in this case?

Attached pics of board and model number.

Really appreciate all the help and advice!

IMG_3194.JPG IMG_3196.JPG

#16 10 years ago

MVM

markmon

Inactive member

Hillsboro, OR

13y 98,300 13,010 21 81

The 5300 is the newer of the two. You could try swapping the mpu board and roms with your Independence Day and see if the problem moves, goes away entirely, or stays.

#17 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Quoted from markmon:
The 5300 is the newer of the two. You could try swapping the mpu board and roms with your Independence Day and see if the problem moves, goes away entirely, or stays.

Bingo! Good idea.

In reading SB157, it says that T3 was the first to use the new CPU board. I was under the impression that it still used the older board. Stern may have transitioned during the run, but I don't have a way to know that with certainty. Curiously, T3 isn't listed in the game/OS version list contained in SB157. Hmmm.

My prior comment about backward compatibility was in the context of using the newer MPU in an older game. The newer board will work, but the sounds may be "off". I do know that you can't use an older MPU in a game designed to use the newer MPU. I know that for NASCAR in particular, the old board will produce no sound at all.

There are backward compatibility issues with the new board too, but only with respect to the OS, as the service bulletin indicates.

Your ID used/uses the older Sega branded MPU. It will be interesting to know if the T3 ROMs work correctly in it, and as markmon says, if the problem follows.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#18 10 years ago

ThatGuy

Pinside member

Fresno, CA

11y 40,900 464 4 17

Wow Brad, pretty creepy is right. But at least you got some heavy hitters responding to your thread and helping.

#19 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

One more thought after watching the video you posted. Did you recently swap sound ROMs?

I've heard sounds like that from games where the sound ROMs were correct, but inserted into the wrong sockets. Although in the pic you posted, they look to be in the right order.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#20 10 years ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
One more thought after watching the video you posted. Did you recently swap sound ROMs?
I've heard sounds like that from games where the sound ROMs were correct, but inserted into the wrong sockets. Although in the pic you posted, they look to be in the right order.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Thanks Chris. Really appreciate it.

No swapping of ROMs at all. This board is as exactly as I obtained it which I assume is fairly untampered with but could be wrong. I may try the swap with ID4 MPU board to see if it follows.

So I did do a factory reset. So far, no gremlins in the machine yet. Though, I imagine it is only a matter of time before Arnold goes a little crazy once again. I am thinking that as long as this annoying issue is in the minority, then I can live with it. But if it continues, I guess I may have to invest in a new Whitestar board or at least an EPROM burner to try and see if the Sound OS ver.8 helps.

#21 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

OP
Quoted from Elfman:
I guess I may have to invest in a new Whitestar board or at least an EPROM burner to try and see if the Sound OS ver.8 helps.

If you need ROMs, contact our bud John Wart Jr. who posts here and is very helpful. Reputable seller.

His web site is...
http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/index.htm

You may have to contact him directly for that specific ROM.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

1 year later

#22 9 years ago

YKP

YKpinballer

Pinside+ Frequent

Digby, NS

9y 53,150 748 1

Resurrecting an old thread for a related question.

Quoted from bigehrl:
my t3 has weird sound issues too!
once every 2 or 3 days (while on for 12 hours a day on route), it'll scream every sound in the machine at max volume for about 1-2 seconds. scares the s#it out of everyone in the shop. so funny to watch everyone jump out of they're skin!
i know t3 has always had sound and reset issues (especially during assault) due to the design. it's even in the operator's memo on stern's site, even w the newest rom and sound version.
btw i put all LED flashers in to battle the resets and it cut it by about 80%
-jon

The local bar has this machine in there, and something similar to this has happened to me twice. Between plays, the machine has belched out a loud explosion sound similar to what is described above, and frightens everybody in the bar. The machine volume is on pretty low so it is a definite anomaly.

Coincidentally the only two times I've heard it have been within 5 minutes of me breaking the top score, but I'm not sure that's related.

Is this a known issue with a simple fix at this point?

3 years later

#23 5 years ago

PEW

pellew

Pinside member

Umeå

6y 40,550 67 29

Hi,

my T3 has the exact same behaviour now. Did you ever come to a conclusion to what was causing this problem?
Or does anyone else know what was wrong?

Mine was completely quiet when I got it, no sound at all. I upgraded the sound OS as per service bulletin 157 and that made the sound come back but with the possesed sound as in the Youtube video above.
I've verified all ROM's (Music/Speech/Game/Display) by removing them and reading them with a BeeProg and they all seem fine.
When running sound tests all ROMs except U7 sounds correct.
Also when opening the coin door there is some speech, this speech sounds like it is played back at 4x the normal speed. Very odd.

Any ideas?

4 years later

#24 1 year ago

W0Z

TimeZone5000

Pinside member

3y 24,900 6 4 7

Any updates on this thread. My T3 also has this exact sound issue. Even after dragster73 went over all my boards. Any luck solving Elfman or pellew ?

#25 1 year ago

ELF

Elfman

Pinside member