(Topic ID: 186509)

TECH: System 4 Stuck Special Solenoids

By jaysunten

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 4 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by zacaj
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Input needed. I have a Williams System 4 (Flash) pinball. I have 2 bumpers and a kicker that stick on during attract, during a game and on the coil test as well as the flippers being operational even when you haven't started a game (I've changed the 4401 but I don't have a spare relay on hand. I popped the top on this one and unstuck it. It went right back to being stuck).
On the bumpers and kicker:
1. Changed all 3 TIP102 and 4401.
2. Changed 7402 and 7408s (tried several spares)
3. Changed PIA (tried 3 different ones with the same stuck on coils)
4. Checked wiring (still stuck to ground with playfield disconnected) Checked coils/diodes anyway - they're fine.
5. New female 40pin connector / reflowed male solder.
6. Cleaned all pins on power supply.
7. Got all game switches working perfectly.

That about covers it. This problem has confounded me. It's not in the platfield since the 3 associated tip102s ground on startup without even starting a game with all connectors from playfield removed.

All I'm left with is a CPU problem, but since these are "special solenoids", they're only controlled by MPU during the coil test, but they're stuck on then too. These are controlled by a playfield switch since they're "special". That switch and it resistor and cap test good. As I said, the problem still exists on driver board with playfield disconnected.

Any ideas or similar problem you e solved?

Thanks!

#2 7 years ago

If you move the pia you tried to another place/board, does it still work after? (eg, the board isn't damaging the pia)

Does the signal read wrong all the way back to the pia (through ic7+9)? I assume the signal is wrong coming out of ic9 pin 10 since that's the last point in common with the flipper relay and the special solenoids

#3 7 years ago

I only have a DMM. What would be right for IC9 pin 10? How would I test it?
Thanks-

#4 7 years ago

For the flippers to be *on*, IC7, pin 4+6 must be high. This is connected to IC9, pins 8+9. IC9 inverts this, making pin 10 low. This inverted signal goes to IC8, pins 2+3, which inverts it again, so pin 1 would be high again. This pin drives the transistor for the flipper relay.

Since your flippers are operational, and your special solenoids (also enabled by a low between IC9 pin 10 and IC8 pin 2+3) are operational, I assume that signal must be low. Working back from there, I'd check if the signal between IC7+9 is high, then if the signal between IC7 pin 4 and the PIA is high.

For reference, you should be able to trace this path along the second page of the driver board schematics, starting where PIA4 in the middle connects to the IC7 AND gate at the top middle

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