(Topic ID: 122909)

[F*cK] - Revenge From Mars - Monitor

By Jean-Luc-Picard

9 years ago


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There are 120 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 9 years ago

Picked up a really clean RFM. However the monitor is dieing. It works, however it is not putting out enough light to make a solid reflection.

I tried adjusting the pot son the monitor. "Are they normally facing away from you rather than on the side where the door is. To me it looks backwards, makes it almost impossible to adjust the pots. I managed to turn some, but I did not see any change. Could it be the pots need to be reflowed or replaced?

I am open to replacing it with a LED or LCD. Just starting to look into that option.

If anyone has any suggestions I am all eyes.

Thanks!

#2 9 years ago

I'm guessing it has the correct class?

They used to sell a mirror cut to fit for adjusting

You could use a mirror but best to put it on something so the glass doors not get scratched

#3 9 years ago

The glass is correct. The monitor itself is just VERY dim. And none of the pots on the monitor work. So, either its the pots and it just needs to be adjusted or its ran out of life.

Trying to find the VGA converter. Found one made for Williams but its $225. I thought I saw something for $45 but not sure where I saw it.

#4 9 years ago

Or I buy a new CGA LCD ebay.com link: 19 ARCADE LCD MONITOR TRI MODE CGA EGA VGA MS PACMAN MULTICADES ECT

But, I feel like I should have a cheaper option.

*May have some progress. Got one of the pots to boost the brightness. Still nto bright enough. But it may be playable now.

#5 9 years ago

If you were in the DC area, i know a guy sitting on a pile of these CRTs

That said, your four options:

1) LCD bracket & CGA converter (links below):
http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/index.html?http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/p2k_lcd.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-CGA-TO-VGA-Converter-CGA-EGA-YUA-to-VGA-PCB-one-VGA-Output-game/32296774456.html

2) if you're willing to take the risk try this: (risk being that its actually the monitor going bad, in which case this wont do you much good most find this very helpful for dim display)
http://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html

3) you could try and find a TV repair shop who can freshen up the monitor.

4) pay the $250 plus shipping to get a direct replacement.

#6 9 years ago

Sounds like either the tube needs rejuvenating or there may be an issue with the B+ high voltage power supply. Will need some diagnosing by a technician at minimum.

#7 9 years ago

Likely its a ducksan monitor and it needs a new flyback( which are made of unobtainium), best bet is to convert to lcd. Rob Anthony of lock when lit has the correct converter and LCD bracket. I've read the off the shelf VGA converters don't work without a custom cable.

#8 9 years ago

Is it possible the glass just isnt as reflective anymore? I was able to get it to be much brighter but still not enough reflection. Plop a mirror on the glass and its perfect. But... Not ideal.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Likely its a ducksan monitor and it needs a new flyback( which are made of unobtainium), best bet is to convert to lcd. Rob Anthony of lock when lit has the correct converter and LCD bracket. I've read the off the shelf VGA converters don't work without a custom cable.

Thanks, I will go ahead and buy his all in one plug-play converter. The image will be sharper as well. so LCD is the way to go.

I am also going to try the Amplifier before I remove the CRT.

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

Likely its a ducksan monitor and it needs a new flyback( which are made of unobtainium), best bet is to convert to lcd. Rob Anthony of lock when lit has the correct converter and LCD bracket. I've read the off the shelf VGA converters don't work without a custom cable.

LOL, but man those adapter are not cheap! $130? Ouch

How is this version different from one i can pick up on amazon? ($40)

http://www.amazon.com/Arcade-Video-Converter-Board-Output/dp/B005G8KSP8/ref=sr_1_8

Or this identical ultra cheap version from ali-express? ($20)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-CGA-TO-VGA-Converter-CGA-EGA-YUA-to-VGA-PCB-one-VGA-Output-game/32296774456.html

#11 9 years ago

You might can try to "recap" the capacitors also. If you want to try to repair the monitor check out the boards at klov.com. That is mainly an arcade game forum with lots of monitor help.

#12 9 years ago

Yes a simple $10 cap kit could fix it as well. Bob Roberts has just about every kit you would need on his site.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from lurch:

LOL, but man those adapter are not cheap! $130? Ouch
How is this version different from one i can pick up on amazon? ($40)
amazon.com link »
Or this identical ultra cheap version from ali-express? ($20)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-CGA-TO-VGA-Converter-CGA-EGA-YUA-to-VGA-PCB-one-VGA-Output-game/32296774456.html

I think the board itself is the same but the VGA output needs to have some of thei wires flipped around

#14 9 years ago

So... this could be a unrelated. But last night I started replacing all the dead bulbs with LED`s. Mostly retro for GI and brights for inserts. Also starting to get some dry solder joints on the pins for the main center light board for inserts. Managed to reseat the connector and got a connection again. However I will reflow them soon. As half of them have cracks and some wells.

Anyway... after doing this I boot up the machine and my monitor is noticeably brighter. Before I could not even read the boot up status or the system settings. I was able to play a game finally. However it is still dull and difficult to see. SO maybe the monitor is ok and it just needs more voltage.? maybe It wasn't the LED and just that connector? Something was drawing more power than it was supposed to.

#15 9 years ago

I wouldn't think the lamps would affect the monitor's output. Monitors usually run on their own isolated 120v AC power supply and have their own circuitry on the chassis board to supply all the power needed. Which types of lamps did you replace, just controlled lamps? Try disconnecting them from the driver board in the bottom of the cabinet and see if the picture changes.

Also, it's possible you have some dry solder joints on the flyback transformer. I've seen this before and it will drop the B+ voltage, thus make the guns in the tube weaker.

#16 9 years ago

I had to reflow the connector pins on the main center light board on mine. Also replaced almost all the lane switches. They seem to work in test but were intermittent during play. Seems to be a common issue with RFM.

Mine already had an LCD when I bought. It's super bright and clear which is awesome. Also reduces heat in the head which is good for the PC. Some people harp on the lack of total blackness level but I don't notice it when playing unless I focus on it. It's also easy to adjust. Plenty bright so just turn the brightness down and play with contrast.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I wouldn't think the lamps would affect the monitor's output. Monitors usually run on their own isolated 120v AC power supply and have their own circuitry on the chassis board to supply all the power needed. Which types of lamps did you replace, just controlled lamps? Try disconnecting them from the driver board in the bottom of the cabinet and see if the picture changes.
Also, it's possible you have some dry solder joints on the flyback transformer. I've seen this before and it will drop the B+ voltage, thus make the guns in the tube weaker.

I changed every light, but the pop-bumpers and I think 2 or 3 lights in the back under the ramps.
Before I changed them, I had over a dozen lights out. Now, everything seems to be working.

-- However, now that I can see the settings. I do have a lot of errors on switches and lamp columns. But, everything works. So, not sure whats the deal with that. I will investigate the errors more tonight.

-- Just to confirm, when I have the machine off, which one do I disconnect on the power driver board?
* See attached

Screen Shot 2015-03-31 at 9.58.55 AM.pngScreen Shot 2015-03-31 at 9.58.55 AM.png

-- I am comfortable reflowing boards. But never worked on a flyback transformer. Not sure where to start on that. However, I do have the amp coming. As well, may be using a PinBox and my own monitor soon. I just want the animations and video to be as crisp and bright as possible.

Quoted from Jgaltr56:

I had to reflow the connector pins on the main center light board on mine. Also replaced almost all the lane switches. They seem to work in test but were intermittent during play. Seems to be a common issue with RFM.
Mine already had an LCD when I bought. It's super bright and clear which is awesome. Also reduces heat in the head which is good for the PC. Some people harp on the lack of total blackness level but I don't notice it when playing unless I focus on it. It's also easy to adjust. Plenty bright so just turn the brightness down and play with contrast.

I am really leaning towards LCD. I notice on the back of that CRT, it has an X-Ray radiation warning on it lol. Curious, what model monitor did you choose? I know some monitors have issues with the resolution. I went with "Dell ST P190ST 19" LCD Monitor" Should have the CGA - VGA converter soon. I hope.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:

-- However, now that I can see the settings. I do have a lot of errors on switches and lamp columns. But, everything works. So, not sure whats the deal with that. I will investigate the errors more tonight.

It's normal for PB2K to detect the lamp errors on LEDs. The LEDs dont consuming enough amp for PB2K sensors to detect. System thinks it's a bulb burnt out
Your switch errors is another issue?

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Yes a simple $10 cap kit could fix it as well. Bob Roberts has just about every kit you would need on his site.

His web site shows he is closed.

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from boogies:

It's normal for PB2K to detect the lamp errors on LEDs. The LEDs dont consuming enough amp for PB2K sensors to detect. System thinks it's a bulb burnt out
Your switch errors is another issue?

I know, Bally Williams always had issues when a switch is not activated in X-number games it will trigger an error. But, I also have this issue on some other machines where, it ALWAYS says check switch xxx. But, it ALWAYs works correctly. Frankly, I don't care if it thinks all my switches are broken when they work fine, as long as it isn't a sign of something else terribly wrong.

So far, as I can tell. EVERYTHING in the game is working properly. So, I just need that monitor issue solved and this is totally a keeper. Won't ever sell RFM, love it.

*I am putting 4 Monster Green Balls, in RFM. Think that should look pretty cool. Like a bunch of alien broccoli rolling around.

#21 9 years ago

My monitor came from Nieman Displays. They sell a complete P2K LCD upgrade kit. http://niemandisplays.com/nieman_video_displays_013.htm

You probably have some bad switches, you just don't realize it yet. I thought the same thing until I understood the rules better and noticed the switches weren't always working. It was driving me nuts cause they would show up as an error but worked when I tested them and the error would go away for a while. They're pretty easy to replace, just take a photo before you replace so you know where the diode goes. I think Marco has drop in replacements. I de soldered/ resoldered one leg at a time so I couldn't screw it up!

#22 9 years ago

If you're comfortable removing the monitor chassis you can ship it to me and I'll replace all of the bad capacitors.

#23 9 years ago

Well... Good news.... And Bad.

1. Solved the problem. A short in the middle insert board, by reflowing it I had a perfect monitor.
2. I HAVE A PERFECT RFM!!!!!!
3. I adjust the color pots on the CRT, and the tube breaks.

#24 9 years ago

Just want to say one more time...

I FIXED THE GAME!!!!! The Monitor is amazing.

AND THEN....

I BROKE THE FUCKING MONITOR, trying to turn a stupid pot.

AKA! I HATE CRT MONITORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

break-tv.gifbreak-tv.gif

But, love the game.

I will re-build I will conquer the broccoli

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:

Just want to say one more time...
I FIXED THE GAME!!!!! The Monitor is amazing.
AND THEN....
I BROKE THE FUCKING MONITOR, trying to turn a stupid pot.
AKA! I HATE CRT MONITORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
break-tv.gif
But, love the game.
I will re-build I will conquer the broccoli

Ouch.

#26 9 years ago

damn dude. so sorry!
that sucks!

#27 9 years ago

Man that sucks!!! Hope you didn't get hurt. Joe

#28 9 years ago

Yikes, glass shards and high voltage. Get yourself a nice LCD panel for that game, don't dwell on it man.

#29 9 years ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

I think the board itself is the same but the VGA output needs to have some of their wires flipped around

Just needs 5v supply. Either wire it as detailed in this link with the included wiring connectors:
http://www.jammaboards.com/faq/article/cga-to-vga-video-converter-gbs-8220-pcb-basic-setup-13.html
(i suggest getting one of these for cleaner installation, no cutting required)
ebay.com link: like

Or buy a power adapter and plug it into the service plug in the cabinet
http://www.amazon.com/2000mA-Regulated-Power-Supply-1-35mm/dp/B005CVNH1Q/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_y

#30 9 years ago
#31 9 years ago

I have a non working Ducksan monitor with no burn that I am planning to sell if you want to try again with getting a crt working. I didn't want to mess with it, so I through an LCD in there.

If you decide to go LCD, the $30 video converters are easy. You just need a VGA cable and an inverter IC (7804, I think). It only takes a few minutes to hack the cable together.

#32 9 years ago

Anyone seen this before?
http://na.suzohapp.com/all_catalogs/monitors/49-3223-00

Its got built-in CGA functionality. Suzo-happ screwed up on shipping, i was quoted $8 to ship. For $250 youve got basically a plug and play setup.

#33 9 years ago

Can I ask the 800 lb gorilla in the room? How did you break the tube adjusting a pot? I've been working on my arcade VGA monitors for a few years and am not understanding how this is possible. The adjustments are on the neck board or chassis.

#34 9 years ago

I would assume the neck of the CRT broke when turning the pots on the neck board. It does twist the neck board a bit and can break a tube if the plastic thing-a-ma-bob on the end of the neck has become broken and brittle...

#35 9 years ago

I went through my fair share of monitor issues with my RFM. Just to confirm with the OP, the monitor literately blew up? Glass flying, smoke, etc....

Did it make a high pitched wine while you were adjusting the pots?

#36 9 years ago

Bloody Hell, thought i had issues with mine but on hindsight was super lucky. The flyback transformer had crapped out on mine but i was "lotto lucky" to track down a NOS chassis board to suit (got a Wells Gardner in my machine). Sounds like an LCD conversion is the best bet for you now. To be honest i was going to do that myself but i was advised to keep it CRT as long as i could keep it going.

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from BillPinball:

I went through my fair share of monitor issues with my RFM. Just to confirm with the OP, the monitor literately blew up? Glass flying, smoke, etc....
Did it make a high pitched wine while you were adjusting the pots?

Lol no, that's not possible unless you take a hammer to it. He just cracked the CRT neck and the tube lost vacuum. There is no way to fix it without replacing the picture tube.

Mancave, if I had one I would do another CRT in a heartbeat. I really like the picture quality on those monitors vs. LCD displays. But you really have to know how to repair just about any type of failure with them. They are not exactly as reliable as modern LCDs.

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Mancave, if I had one I would do another CRT in a heartbeat. I really like the picture quality on those monitors vs. LCD displays. But you really have to know how to repair just about any type of failure with them. They are not exactly as reliable as modern LCDs.

At the onset of "No picture" with my machine i assumed it may have had bad caps (i'd only had the machine a few weeks) and when i discovered the flyback transformer had gone AWOL i figured LCD was the only way to go. I agree though, CRT monitors have a better picture but can be less reliable than an LCD. One other thing is that a CRT monitor needs a chassis board to match, it's not just a matter of chucking any old chassis board in there.

#39 9 years ago

Heading to work so I dont have much time to comment. The end of the tube where the color pots are. The board that is attached to the end of the tube broke off. I was adjusting the pots, and it snapped. I was not even using much or any force on the pots. Not sure if that end can be replaced?

CRT.jpgCRT.jpg

#40 9 years ago

Well, that may be a saving grace actually. The neck board is designed to be removable. Look at the end of the tube, do you still see the pins for the electron gun assembly?

image.jpgimage.jpg
#41 9 years ago
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:

Heading to work so I dont have much time to comment. The end of the tube where the color pots are. The board that is attached to the end of the tube broke off. I was adjusting the pots, and it snapped. I was not even using much or any force on the pots. Not sure if that end can be replaced?

If the glass of the neck is still intact and it's broken the pins that the board attaches to it may be possible to repair. I'm not 100% sure on that though.

#42 9 years ago

Well. Late for work. But I just had to take a video before I left. Uploaded a video while I'm on the train. As you can tell I have never repaired a CRT.

1. Why are the RGB pots on the other side?
2. Do the pins just twist on?
3. How do you reattach it Without removing the entire CRT.

#44 9 years ago

When I touch the left side of the neck. I dont believe that is broke. Felt like hot glue.

Also. Granted the reflow of the insert light board made the display brighter. This board on the CRT may be the culprit the entire time. Aka I was prob only seeing the red channel when I got the machine. Then via fiddling it was wiggled into all 3 channels.

#45 9 years ago
star trek picard.gif.gifstar trek picard.gif.gif
#46 9 years ago

By looking at your video it appears that you did NOT break the CRT neck. I think what you did was slightly wiggle the neck board enough to break the glue seal that was installed to prevent the board from separating from the socket from vibration. The glue blob will look like this (ignore the circled connector). Carefully press the neck board back onto the tube socket and turn on the power. The monitor should come on. As for the lamp board thing, I dunno. The only explanation I could think of is maybe that was causing one of the RGB color channels to go low for some reason. In that case it would've happened with an LCD as well.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#47 9 years ago

After watching the video again, that definitely does look like a crack/chip in the glass. Glue typically wouldn't be applied that close to the actual neck pins. Did you hear a hissing sound when this happened from air entering the tube?

image.jpgimage.jpg
#48 9 years ago

giphy.gifgiphy.gif

#49 9 years ago

I did not hear a hissing noise. The light just slowly died as I wiggled it. When I felt it this morning, it felt like rubber. aka, hot glue. But I could be wrong.

#50 9 years ago
Quoted from lurch:

Just needs 5v supply. Either wire it as detailed in this link with the included wiring connectors:
http://www.jammaboards.com/faq/article/cga-to-vga-video-converter-gbs-8220-pcb-basic-setup-13.html
(i suggest getting one of these for cleaner installation, no cutting required)
ebay.com link » Like
Or buy a power adapter and plug it into the service plug in the cabinet
amazon.com link »

Have you used one of these in a Pin2K? It requires a special cable (that you can make) to invert one or more of the signals, you cannot plug a VGA cable directly from the converter board to the LCD and have it work. see other quote below.

Quoted from Nexyss:

You just need a VGA cable and an inverter IC (7804, I think). It only takes a few minutes to hack the cable together.

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