(Topic ID: 116407)

TECH: Indiana Jones (Williams)


By QuarterGrabber

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Big70
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image-594.jpg
image-86.jpg
image-546.jpg
image.jpg

#1 4 years ago

I just finished a full shop job of my Williams Indiana Jones and the game was working 100% before I disassembled it for the shop job. I completely stripped the playfield, cleaned it, put three coats of wax on it replaced all the rubbers and replaced anything else that needed replacing. When I put it all back together I am now getting two error messages. You can still start a game just fine and play but it spits out two balls every time and it doesn't seem to recognise that a ball is locked when you lock one. It might be two wires touching or something but I looked and couldn't see anything, but there's a lot of wires under there. Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Pics of the two errors below. And I know I don't have the latest roms but they are on their way in the mail. Thanks.

image.jpg

image-546.jpg

image-86.jpg

image-594.jpg

#2 4 years ago

Check the lower right rollover contacts on the POA. Same symptoms showed up when the tabs were inadvertently bent on mine.

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from ff6735:

Check the lower right rollover contacts on the POA. Same symptoms showed up when the tabs were inadvertently bent on mine.

Ok I will remove the POA right away and check. Thanks!

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

Ok I will remove the POA right away and check. Thanks!

If you use your wife or girlfriends compact make up mirror it'll give you a good view without removing that thing which takes a while.

#5 4 years ago

Well I pressed down all the roll over switches on the POA in the switch edge test and they all worked fine. So I started unplugging items one at a time until the ground short message went away. When I unplugged the idol the ground short message went away, replace with idol bad message and still the single drop target message. So although the idol works perfectly in the test menu, I'm assuming the ground short has to do with the idol???

#6 4 years ago

Bump for some evening help.

#7 4 years ago

I sometimes get the single drop bad error message. My tech, who has a lot of experience with these machines, told me that it's common and is some kind of software glitch. It should go away almost immediately or with a restart. It did for mine. Kind of weird, but hopefully its the case with yours.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I sometimes get the single drop bad error message. My tech, who has a lot of experience with these machines, told me that it's common and is some kind of software glitch. It should go away almost immediately or with a restart. It did for mine. Kind of weird, but hopefully its the case with yours.

Yeah that's usually not a real error. It seems to show up if you play a game without hitting it.

#9 4 years ago

It's definitely a playfield issue and not a cpu board issue if unplugging the idol cleared up the row short message. When you say you disconnected the idol, did you unplug J1 on the 3 switch opto pcb for the idol? If so, the LM339 chip (U1) on that board is likely bad and causing the problem. When an LM339 for optos fails, it confuses the swtich matrix and you can get all kinds of strange switch behavior from phantom swtich closures, double switch closures with optos involved to sometimes getting ground row shorts being reported.

I'm pretty sure you could confirm that it's the LM339 by unplugging J2, J3, and J4 on that board, but leave J1 plugged in. You're unplugging each individual opto on the idol when you do that (J2 is switch 91, which the only opto on the idol in row 1). If you unplug all those, but the row short stays, it's going to be the LM339. It's a cheap chip ($1.39 at Marco Specialties and $.59 for a socket) and fairly common to fail. I always put a socket on for the new chip when replacing for easy replacing in the future.

The switch row short is likely causing the 2 balls to be ejected during game play. Trough 6 is in Row 1, so if the pin thinks there's a short in Row 1, when the first ball is ejected, it will still see Trough 6 as closed when it should be open. Trough 5 will be closed too as it should be, so the game will spit out a 2nd ball thinking the trough is still full of balls (trough 1 - 6 all closed when it should be 1 - 5 closed and 6 open with a ball in the shooter lane). Once Trough 5 goes open because the 2nd ball is ejected and only 4 are now in the trough, the game will see Trough 6 closed, 5 open, and 4 - 1 all closed and know the trough isn't full.

The drop target issue I think can happen too if you turn the game on with the coin door open and the drop target can't go up and down because the coils have no power with the door open. If I recall the drop target pulses on power up. If the drop target can't move on power up, the game will think it's not working. Hitting it will make it go away. That switch is also in Row 1 though, so it may have also had to do with you having a ground short in row 1 message. I'd double check my memory on the drop target pulsing at power up, but my IJ is currently stripped down for a shop job.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Big70:

It's definitely a playfield issue and not a cpu board issue if unplugging the idol cleared up the row short message. When you say you disconnected the idol, did you unplug J1 on the 3 switch opto pcb for the idol? If so, the LM339 chip (U1) on that board is likely bad and causing the problem. When an LM339 for optos fails, it confuses the swtich matrix and you can get all kinds of strange switch behavior from phantom swtich closures, double switch closures with optos involved to sometimes getting ground row shorts being reported.
I'm pretty sure you could confirm that it's the LM339 by unplugging J2, J3, and J4 on that board, but leave J1 plugged in. You're unplugging each individual opto on the idol when you do that (J2 is switch 91, which the only opto on the idol in row 1). If you unplug all those, but the row short stays, it's going to be the LM339. It's a cheap chip ($1.39 at Marco Specialties and $.59 for a socket) and fairly common to fail. I always put a socket on for the new chip when replacing for easy replacing in the future.
The switch row short is likely causing the 2 balls to be ejected during game play. Trough 6 is in Row 1, so if the pin thinks there's a short in Row 1, when the first ball is ejected, it will still see Trough 6 as closed when it should be open. Trough 5 will be closed too as it should be, so the game will spit out a 2nd ball thinking the trough is still full of balls (trough 1 - 6 all closed when it should be 1 - 5 closed and 6 open with a ball in the shooter lane). Once Trough 5 goes open because the 2nd ball is ejected and only 4 are now in the trough, the game will see Trough 6 closed, 5 open, and 4 - 1 all closed and know the trough isn't full.
The drop target issue I think can happen too if you turn the game on with the coin door open and the drop target can't go up and down because the coils have no power with the door open. If I recall the drop target pulses on power up. If the drop target can't move on power up, the game will think it's not working. Hitting it will make it go away. That switch is also in Row 1 though, so it may have also had to do with you having a ground short in row 1 message. I'd double check my memory on the drop target pulsing at power up, but my IJ is currently stripped down for a shop job.

Thank you sooo much!!! I wish I could give you 10 thumbs up for that post. It is so detailed. Thank you!

#11 4 years ago

Ok a quick update on this. I did what you said Big70 and unplugged J2, J3 and J4 and left J1 plugged in and sure enough, no ground short. So I started plugging them in one by one. With J1 and J2 plugged in, no ground short. With J1, J2 and J3 plugged in, no ground short. Then I plugged J4 in, and ground short message again. So the ground short message is directly related to J4. Do you still think it is the LM339 chip? That chip is already socketed so it must have been replaced in the past at some point. Let me know if with J4 being the known problem now, do you still think it is the LM339 chip?

Thanks in advance.

#12 4 years ago

Yes. Big70 is correct about the drop target issue. Can happen with the 3 target or the single target. Once you close the coin door and start the game it should clear. Later software corrected that issue.

#13 4 years ago

Yes, I do believe the issue to be the LM339 chip. I feel stronger about that since when you unplug J4, which is opto switch 93 (the last switch in Row 3), and that clears up a reported Row 1 ground short. That LM339 it communicating with the CPU, telling it which switch is activated. When those chips fail, they confuse the CPU and that can cause all kinds of weird problems. I've had situations where 1 or more optos were being reported in the switch matrix test as switch number that are "not used" in the manual. Sometimes I've had them show up as other non optic switches, sometimes double switch closures (phantom switch closures). Ground row short is another possibility. All caused by a bad LM339. That fact that it's already socketed is just a plus for you. It's a good chip to have in stock. It's not uncommon for them to fail on those opto pcb boards under the playfield. IJ has 3 of them on the 10 switch opto board, 1 on the 3 switch opto board, and 2 on the trough opto board.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 8.50
Lighting - Led
Pinball Haus
$ 24.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside