(Topic ID: 24966)

TECH: IJ(w) lamp matrix problem

By ab3

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 29 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Bcrowe
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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#1 11 years ago

Turned on my IJ tonight and noticed the controlled lamps were acting strangely. When one was supposed to light, multiple lit instead. I went into single lamp test mode and found the following:

Test 11 lights lamps 11, 21, 31, 41
Test 12 lights 12, 22, 32, 42
Etc. down to 18 lights 18, 28, 38, 48

Test for lamp 21 lights 11, 21, 31, 41 and so on down column two. This pattern continues for the first four columns.

When I test a lamp in column 5, it lights the correct lamp, plus all the lamps in the same row in columns 1, 2, 3 and 4.

A lamp in column 6 lights the correct lamp, plus the same ones in columns 1, 2, 3, and 4, etc.

So basically each lamp lights the correct one, plus all of the lights in the same row, in columns 1, 2, 3, and 4.

If anyone can offer advice or a strategy on how to begin diagnosising and fixing the problem I'd greatly appreciate it! I'm willing to try/learn anything you suggest, but don't have the expertise that many of you have to know how to begin to root out the problem. Thanks for your time.

#2 11 years ago

I would start by looking for a pinched wire, shorted socket. I don't have the manual, but look for the easy stuff first. Find out where those lights are on the pf, and follow the wires, making sure none is pinched to a ground, and also look at the diodes, to make sure none is pushed against a metal braket. Hope this helps.

#3 11 years ago

Reseat the ribbon cable from the CPU to the driver board on both sides.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#4 11 years ago

Thanks postmaster. Didn't see any of the issues you suggested under the main playfield. Does anyone think it would be worth the time to take out the mini playfield and check the diodes there (I understand they can take a beating?). I've never taken off the mini playfield but I'm sure I can follow the directions in the manual to do so. Would a diode problem on the mini playfield cause the issue described?

Thanks for anyone who takes the time to respond, I appreciate it!

#5 11 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Reseat the ribbon cable from the CPU to the driver board on both sides.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

Thanks, just tried it but no luck. Any other thoughts?

#6 11 years ago

With the power off, firmly press on the ASIC, the large square chip on the CPU with your thumb. Too many columns/rows affected to be a driver board component issue I think. Sounds more like a communication issue.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#7 11 years ago

"With the power off, firmly press on the ASIC, the large square chip on the CPU with your thumb."

Thanks for another idea Rob. Tried this also and no luck.

1) So should I take the mini pf out to look for a smashed diode? It's the only place I haven't checked yet visually. Anyone know if a diode could be causing this anyways?
2) There are LEDs scattered throughout (put in half a year ago with no known issues). Could an led gone bad be causing this (I'm guessing not, but just throwing something out)

#8 11 years ago

Wire up a bulb to use as a test rig to test each row and column at the board. Rule out or confirm a board issue befor tearing thins apart.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

... a board issue befor tearing thins apart.

Pat, I'd like to buy an "e", is there a "g"?

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#10 11 years ago

I've got a test bulb wired up. Would you mind giving a few details on how to "test each row and column at the board"? (having never done that I don't want to mess anything up).

Also, what exactly would I be looking for with a test bulb? Since every lamp works in the test mode (just more than one lamp lights at once), wouldn't wiring a single bulb at the board just light the test bulb each time? Not quite understanding what to look for. Thanks for your help and patience.

#11 11 years ago

Testing the Lamp Rows.
If a TIP102 transistor that drives a lamp row is suspected as bad, test it:
1. Remove the backglass and fold down the display to gain access to the Driver
board.
2. Turn the game on.
3. After the game boots, press the "Begin Test" button in the front door. Go to
the Test menu's "All Lamp Test" test.
4. Unplug the row connectors at J133 (or J124 on WPC-95) and column
connector at J137 (or J121 on WPC-95). These are on the lower right portion
of the Driver board.
5. Connect an alligator test lead to column connector pin 1 of J137 (or J124 on
WPC-95). Pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board.
6. Connect the other end of this test lead to one lead of a 555 light socket. One
can be temporarily borrowed from a playfield lamp (make sure it's a working
lamp first!).
7. Connect another test lead to the second lead of the 555 light socket.
8. On the other end of the test lead, clip on a 1N4004 diode, with the nonbanded
end away from the alligator lead.
9. Touch the non-banded end of the diode to row connector J133 (or J124 on
WPC-95) pin 1. Again, pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board.
10. The lamp should flash.
11. Move the diode/alligator lead on row connector J133 (or J124 on WPC-95) to
the next pin. Again, the lamp should flash.
12. Repeat the previous step, until the last pin of row connector J133 (or J124 on
WPC-95) is reached.
If a lamp row tested doesn't give a flashing test lamp, that row is bad (or the test
diode is reversed!). No light or a non-flashing, bright lamp are signs that the
respective TIP102 row transistor is bad. Test the transistor as described in Testing
Transistors and Coils.

#12 11 years ago

Testing the Lamp Columns.
If a TIP107 transistor that drives a lamp column is suspected as bad, test it:
1. Remove the backglass and fold down the display, to gain access to the Driver
board.
2. Turn the game on.
3. After the game boots, press the "Begin Test" button in the front door. Go to
the Test menu's "All Lamp Test" test.
4. Unplug the row connectors at J133 (or J124 on WPC-95) and column
connector at J137 (or J121 on WPC-95). These are on the lower right portion
of the Driver board.
5. Connect an alligator test lead to row connector pin 1 of J133 (or J121 on
WPC-95). Pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board.
6. Connect the other end of this test lead to one lead of a 555 light socket. One
can be temporarily borrowed from a playfield lamp (make sure the lamp works
first!).
7. Connect another test lead to the second lead of the 555 light socket.
8. On the other end of the test lead, clip on a 1N4004 diode, with the banded
end away from the alligator lead.
9. Touch the banded end of the diode to column connector J137 (or J121 on
WPC-95) pin 1. Again, pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board.
10. The lamp should flash.
11. Move the diode/alligator lead on column connector J137 (or J121 on WPC-95)
to the next pin. Again, the lamp should flash.
12. Repeat the previous step, until the last pin of column connector J137 (or J121
on WPC-95) is reached.
If a lamp column tested doesn't give a flashing test lamp, that column is bad (or the
test diode is reversed!). No light or a non-flashing, bright lamp are signs that the
respective column TIP107 transistor is bad. Test the transistor as described in
Testing Transistors and Coils

#13 11 years ago

Thank you Seal. I will test all of the above when I get the time today as you described above, and report back.

Two questions - on my IJ, nothing is connected to J133 or J137 (both are empty). Instead, J134 and J138 are being used. Is this normal, or something to be concerned about? And should I test on the empty J133 and J137 as you suggested, or rather on J134 and J138 pins where the row and columns are currently connected? Thanks!

#14 11 years ago

J133 and J134 are the same, as are J137 and 138. They must be removed for this test. And, with them removed a diode is not needed with SealClubber's instructions above.

One last thing, since you're getting multiple lamps lighting for one, put the game in single lamp test instead of all lamp test. All lamp test won't do you any good for your problem. In single lamp test you should only see the test lamp light on one column and one row for each lamp, any more than that and you have a board issue.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#15 11 years ago

A shorted lamp diode can cause this. Or a lamp socket where the diode is bent and touching the prong of the socket. It can be a board issue, but I've seen this time and time again as a diode issue on the lamp matrix. Look at all your insert bulbs that use 44 bulbs first. Those are the most likely to get bumped or bent. The machine has leds?

#16 11 years ago

Yes, there are some LEDs scattered throughout (been there for about 6 months, no problems until yesterday). Do you ask because the leds themselves could somehow be causing the problem?

There are only a few 44 insert bulbs under the playfield, and visually I do not see not see any bent diodes. Most of the lights under the inserts are the screw in type on the big 33 lamp board.

There are diodes under the mini pf- do you think I should take out the mini pf and check the diodes there markmon? I also hoped and suspected a diode was causing this. Thanks!

#17 11 years ago

Ok I've tested each row and column per the above advice (in single lamp test mode). The results replicate what I saw in the playfield inserts when I tested them originally (The test for 11 lights my test bulb at the board at 11, 21, 31, and 41. For each lamp test, the test bulb lights for the correct pins, plus lights up at any of the pins in the same row for columns 1, 2, 3 and 4; ex. 18 lights 18 plus 11, 12, 13, 14)

So does this rule out a problem with a diode, and narrow it down to a board issue? What would you suggest as the next step? Thanks!

#18 11 years ago

Yes, you've confirmed a board issue. Any coils not working? Switches all working correctly? GI test work as expected. Could be a data line issue if yes to any other of these issues.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#19 11 years ago

You can swap you ij and Addams family power boards and see if the problem moves also. But it sounds like you've already narrowed it to the board.

#20 11 years ago

Away from home right now, but I'll check if coils, switches, and GI all work properly when I get home (I believe they do, as the lamp matrix was the only thing that seemed off when I played a game yesterday) and report back.

I'll also try swapping out the power board from TAF and see if the problem moves.

Let's say it is a board issue. Is the next step in solving a board problem beyond an average person's skillset who is willing to learn? Would I be better off sending the board out to be fixed by an expert rather than tackle it myself (anyone know someone in the Philly area if so)?

Thanks for everyone's time and advice so far.

#21 11 years ago

So all coils, switches, and GI work correctly when tested. Just the lamp matrix is firing everything in columns 1-4, but in the correct row of a single lamp in test mode. Just to double check- I did the above recommended test at the board WITHOUT a diode- that's ok, right?

With my limited soldering experience, I would assume attempting any board work would be dumb on my part, and that I should get an expert to help fix the board. Based on the above info from my test bulb, is there a specific part that would be causing this problem that needs replacing on the board? Also, does anyone have a good board guy they'd recommend?

Thanks, hope everyone is having a great night.

#22 11 years ago

No diode is needed for that test if you're removing the connectors listed.

Although certainly possible, it seems very strange that three or four lamp matrix drivers would be bad. I think sending out the board for repair would be your best course of action.

I may know a decent board repair guy I can recommend...

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#23 11 years ago

So, I've left my IJ off for about two days after the above testing seemed to confirm a board problem. I was all ready to pack up the board to send it in for repairs, but five minutes ago I decided to retest everything at the board, and to my surprise the lamp matrix issue where one light made four go on disappeared! Everything tested correctly at the board. I replugged in the connectors, and everything was also lighting up correctly again on the inserts. I turned the machine off.

Ten minutes later, I turned the machine back on and the original problem came back. Any thoughts on why the problem would go temporarily away, only to return shortly after? I assume it still means the board is bad and it needs to be sent out for repair. Thanks for any insights.

1 year later
#24 10 years ago
Quoted from ab3:

So, I've left my IJ off for about two days after the above testing seemed to confirm a board problem. I was all ready to pack up the board to send it in for repairs, but five minutes ago I decided to retest everything at the board, and to my surprise the lamp matrix issue where one light made four go on disappeared! Everything tested correctly at the board. I replugged in the connectors, and everything was also lighting up correctly again on the inserts. I turned the machine off.
Ten minutes later, I turned the machine back on and the original problem came back. Any thoughts on why the problem would go temporarily away, only to return shortly after? I assume it still means the board is bad and it needs to be sent out for repair. Thanks for any insights.

Did you ever fix this? What was the outcome?

#25 10 years ago

Sorry, should have updated. Driver board was bad, sent it to be fixed, now everything works fine.

1 year later
#26 8 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Reseat the ribbon cable from the CPU to the driver board on both sides.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

Thank you old thread! I had a row and column of lights out on my White Water. I was reading other threads and looking at much more complex issues (i.e. board issues), and it ended up being the ribbon cable connection. Simple fix! Love it!

1 year later
#28 7 years ago

I had the same issue....multiple inserts turning on in single lamp test....and it was the ribbon between mpu and cpu.

1 year later
#29 5 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Thank you old thread! I had a row and column of lights out on my White Water. I was reading other threads and looking at much more complex issues (i.e. board issues), and it ended up being the ribbon cable connection. Simple fix! Love it!

Thank you for posting this little side note - saved me a lot of time troubleshooting!

Out of the blue yesterday my BOP had a couple of solenoids not working and some playfield lights that wouldn't work. I did an individual lamp test and found a whole row and a whole column of lights were out (no real discernible pattern on the playfield, but after looking and the lamp matrix diagram, I could see the problem was in one whole row and one whole column of lights).

I read about lamp matrix troubleshooting, but then noticed your comment at the end of this thread about the ribbon cable. I should have thought of that first because I had sound issues about a year ago and it turned to be the ribbon cable - easy fix. So I reseated and jiggled the ribbon cable from the CPU to the driver board and bingo, that was it.

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