(Topic ID: 273014)

Tech - I500 weak flippers on all 3

By PinballJeff

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

I picked up an I500 and all 3 of the flippers are working, but very weak (can't make it up the ramp). The fliptronics boards and coils had already been swapped. Measured TP6 and got 75.4 VDC. As I understand it, game was working fine and then one day all three went weak. I haven't rebuilt the flippers yet, but it would seem weird for all 3 to go bad at once. Thinking it's got to be a power issue.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Jeff

#2 3 years ago

Easy to check plungers in flipper coils for mushrooming or a sharp edge. Clean the optos on the flipper button opto boards.

LTG : )

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Easy to check plungers in flipper coils for mushrooming or a sharp edge. Clean the optos on the flipper button opto boards.
LTG : )

Thanks LTG. I'm thinking what I'm calling the fliptronics boards are the same as what you're saying to clean - correct. Old boards removed with problem and new ones installed and the problem still exists. I'm sure that there are wear and tear parts that need to be replaced but I thought it would be weird that all three would become problematic at the same time, making me think it was a power issue.

#4 3 years ago

I have seen this issue be a problem with the power coming from the driver board also. Just recently on a no fear I was working on. Changed out the driver board and problem went away.
I have not had a chance to do bench work on this driver yet.

Being all flippers you need to check this power.

Assuming it’s not the cranks because it’s all 3.

Sometimes it’s the cabinet flipper optos, but again on all 3?

Yeah, might be something in the fliptronic. Need to check there also

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from athens95:

I have seen this issue be a problem with the power coming from the driver board also. Just recently on a no fear I was working on. Changed out the driver board and problem went away.
I have not had a chance to do bench work on this driver yet.
Being all flippers you need to check this power.
Assuming it’s not the cranks because it’s all 3.
Sometimes it’s the cabinet flipper optos, but again on all 3?
Yeah, might be something in the fliptronic. Need to check there also

Thanks for the feedback. So far, I'm thinking the next thing to try is to swap out the driver board unless someone else comes along with another recommendation.

#6 3 years ago

See if there is any improvement just from reseating J102 to the driver board.

#7 3 years ago

Flipper power for the fliptronic board comes into J102 on the power board. The AC (transformer secondary winding) is then distributed to the fliptronic board at J104/J105 (they are electrically connected and identical). That's the extent of the involvement of the power board (other than a secondary winding fuse).

The AC comes into the fliptronic board at J901 and is rectified before being distributed as four power wires that are individually fused at J907.

It is still possible that there is a problem on the power board that is interfering with the power to the fliptronic board but it's unlikely.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

See if there is any improvement just from reseating J102 to the driver board.

Already try that with no gain, but thanks for the post.

#9 3 years ago

Swapped the driver board and problem stayed with the machine, so I'm guessing it's not there. Pulled apart coil mech and all looks good there.

Anyone got any other thoughts?

#10 3 years ago

Fliptronix board would be the next to try. If the problem follows this board, I would diode test the bridge rectifier.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Fliptronix board would be the next to try. If the problem follows this board, I would diode test the bridge rectifier.

Quick update. I was calling the "Flipper Opto PCB Ass" the Fliptronics Boards. Swapped out the "Fliptronic II Board Ass" and the problem went away. In the process, I some how lost the launch button. Didn't work with the new board, even though the flippers were fine. Swapped in the old board and flippers are weak & launch isn't working.

Problem is on the Fliptronic II Board Ass.

Pinball's are such fun.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballJeff:

Quick update. I was calling the "Flipper Opto PCB Ass" the Fliptronics Boards. Swapped out the "Fliptronic II Board Ass" and the problem went away. In the process, I some how lost the launch button. Didn't work with the new board, even though the flippers were fine. Swapped in the old board and flippers are weak & launch isn't working.
Problem is on the Fliptronic II Board Ass.
Pinball's are such fun.

Does the launch button work in switch test? What about the shooter lane switch?

#13 3 years ago

For the launch button - switch is working in switch edge & coil is working for auto plunger on coil test.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

Does the launch button work in switch test? What about the shooter lane switch?

Shooter lane switch also works.

#15 3 years ago

Launch update - reset ribbon cable and now it works.

Now, how do I figure out what's wrong on the Fliptronic II board that's not giving me full strength on the flippers?

Thanks for the help.

#16 3 years ago

Save yourself the headache and just buy this. Sending off the board for repair probably isn't worth it considering a new one is so cheap. Could be the bridge rectifier.

https://ksarcade.net/rottendog-fliptronics-2-a-15472-flp892.html

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

Save yourself the headache and just buy this. Sending off the board for repair probably isn't worth it considering a new one is so cheap. Could be the bridge rectifier.
https://ksarcade.net/rottendog-fliptronics-2-a-15472-flp892.html

My advice is against a Rottendog board.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballJeff:

Launch update - reset ribbon cable and now it works.
Now, how do I figure out what's wrong on the Fliptronic II board that's not giving me full strength on the flippers?
Thanks for the help.

Stated above, test the bridge rectifier on the board using the diode test.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

My advice is against a Rottendog board.

I put a rottendog in a shadow and it worked great.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

I put a rottendog in a shadow and it worked great.

Overall, their quality is not good, even with new boards.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Stated above, test the bridge rectifier on the board using the diode test.

Quoted from DumbAss:

The AC comes into the fliptronic board at J901 and is rectified before being distributed as four power wires that are individually fused at J907.

Some fliptronic boards have a 100uF@100V capacitor installed. Those are the ones manufactured early in the life cycle.

It's likely that your bridge rectifier is failing under load. It may measure "good" but measurement is not under load.

<shameless plug>

If you're looking for an alternative to a Rottendog ... I have reproduced this board and it has had testing in a Twilight Zone. If you're interested feel free to contact me.

FAIR WARNING: I CANNOT compete with Rottendog prices. Rottendog boards are priced the way they are for a reason. If you're price conscious then go with Rottendog.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/2#post-5579763

</shameless plug>

#22 3 years ago

Status Update - Thanks all for the guidance. BR on Fliptronics II Board has been replaced and the game is acting fine. Thanks again and big shout out to Mike Schudel.

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