(Topic ID: 57807)

TECH: How do you make System 11s compatible with LED flashers?

By gweempose

9 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by PghPinballRescue
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LED_flashers.jpg

#1 9 years ago

I want to use some LED flashers in the backbox of my Pin*Bot. Whenever I do, they have a tendency to fry pretty quickly. Is there some type of resistor I can add, or another type of mod that will allow me to use them?

#2 9 years ago

There is not a universal answer to this question because on Sys11s you can have 63, 89 or 1251 flash lamps depending upon the machine. 1251s are 28v lamps, 63s are 7v and 89s are 13v yet all use the same base (BA15S.) So if you put a 63 lamp in a socket for a 1251, kiss it goodbye. You need the properly rated lamp for the appropriate socket.

In addition, Williams used warming resistors to keep the element hot to get it flash brighter when it was turned on. This keeps current flowing to the socket all the time and with an LED will likely have it lock on. The appropriate warming resistor needs to be removed for any LED flash lamp.

Lastly, 63s in any Williams game are always wired with two in series. So if you replace one, you have to replace the other in the pair to properly load the circuit. HS uses eight of them wired into four pairs for the radar detector lights.

viperrwk

#3 9 years ago

System 11 games have a warming circuit for the flash lamps. Basically there are under pf mounted boards that apply a small load to all the flash lamps to keep them warm. This is not enough to light up a incadescent bulb, but it is enough to turn a LED flasher on. You would have to wire around this warming circuit.

Personally i would just use incadescent flashers and not hack the game for LEDs. I dont see what LED flashers really add anyways.

#4 9 years ago

Are you using the right bulbs? The two in the middle are 1251's and the one's on the far left and right are 89's.

#5 9 years ago

I'd just leave them incandescent myself, but if you split pairs and make one incandescent and one LED, they tend to work as intended (rather than stay on all the time).

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd just leave them incandescent myself, but if you split pairs and make one incandescent and one LED, they tend to work as intended (rather than stay on all the time).

This is what I did in HS. I put in two pairs of blue LED's under each hot dog insert. Works well. Looks 'blue-er' without messing around with the rest of the circuit.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Personally i would just use incadescent flashers and not hack the game for LEDs. I dont see what LED flashers really add anyways.

I normally agree that LED flashers aren't worth it, but in this case I want to use LED flashers behind the helmet on the backglass. They look way better than incandescents for this particular application.

Quoted from chipleader:

Are you using the right bulbs? The two in the middle are 1251's and the one's on the far left and right are 89's.

It's for the two in the middle that light up the helmet. I'm pretty sure I have 89 incandescents in there now, and they're working just fine. Do they make LED flashers specifically designed to replace 1251s? These are the ones I was using that got fried ...

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1247

LED_flashers.jpg

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Do they make LED flashers specifically designed to replace 1251s?

Only one I know that has 1251 LED replacements:
http://bcspinball.com/1251-1683-red-15led-matrix-28v/

viperrwk

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

Only one I know that has 1251 LED replacements:
http://bcspinball.com/1251-1683-red-15led-matrix-28v/

viperrwk

Thanks for the link! So would these work in an unmodified Pin*Bot, or would they get fried too?

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Thanks for the link! So would these work in an unmodified Pin*Bot, or would they get fried too?

They shouldn't blow out, but they will stay on due to the warming circuits.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

They shouldn't blow out, but they will stay on due to the warming circuits.

Beat me to the punch! So you'd have to remove the warming resistor for those flashlamps so they wouldn't be locked on.

viperrwk

#12 9 years ago

Hmmm I replaced 6 of the flashers in my F-14 with LEDS and they work just fine, wonder why.

#13 9 years ago

^^^

Steve, i bet your warming resistors burnt themselves open / fell off the board. Happens quite often.

#14 9 years ago

I like when the resistors are just littered about the floor of the game.

"Williams Quality"

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I like when the resistors are just littered about the floor of the game.
"Williams Quality"

After 30 years and potentially 100,000+ plays. I'll take it.

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

After 30 years and potentially 100,000+ plays. I'll take it.

Simply bad engineering.

#17 9 years ago

Yeah, I put LED flashers in my whirlwind and at the time did not know about the whole warming circuit, but I think mine were all broken because the LEDs worked fine when I put them in.

#18 9 years ago

Find out the forward voltage of the LED , measure the actual voltage in circuit then do the math for the needed resistor value to drop the voltage.

There are online calculators for figuring out the need voltage in series / parallel and the number of LED's used. Personally I would leave the incandescent bulbs in place. The cement resistors drop the voltage but the pass thru voltage is heating the filament for faster on / off response.

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

^^^

Steve, i bet your warming resistors burnt themselves open / fell off the board. Happens quite often.

I replaced them when I got it, maybe because I changed over just some of the flashers and not all? Oh well, it works so whatever.

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Hmmm I replaced 6 of the flashers in my F-14 with LEDS and they work just fine, wonder why.

Yeah, I never had a problem with LED flashers in my SoF either.

#21 9 years ago

The flashers in the pf of my Space Shuttle stayed on when I switched them to led and when I snipped the resistor off they worked as the should. I switched to help take some of the load off the old boards and power supply. Gotta help these old machines whenever ya can.

8 years later
#22 5 months ago

As usual, I am late getting to the party. I’ve collected games for years and now after retiring I finally have time/space to work on my games. My question may be answered above but to clarify so I don’t blow something up. On the Sorcerer the two flasher bulbs BOTH need to stay in place ? I wanted to eliminate one for 2 reasons. Switching to LED’s (they are brighter) and from the noise I was getting in that area seems like one of the sockets was touching the back of a target and shorting or grounding out the circuit. It’s really tight in there. Can one be eliminated and how ? Plus what voltage is this and bulb needed? Thank you

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