(Topic ID: 153963)

Tech help: system 11A DOA, I'm stuck

By PanaPinResto

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 11 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

#1 8 years ago

Ok, I've completely restored and reassembled my Pinbot. It took a few months but it's beautiful. Now I need it to work. It's never worked since I bought it. The guy told me it needed board work. When I power it on I get nothing. It's completely dead. No flashes from the board at all.
I did buy a logic probe and Leon's test chip. I put it Leon's test chip and nothing changes. It's just dead. I did buy new U26 @U27 game rom but I didn't get the sound rom. My mistake. I'm ordering it today. Will new game rom and old sound rom cause a problem? Even if it did it should still work with Leon's test rom in, right?
To start with, I reflowed all the connector solder joints. Checked all the fuses for correct value and continuity. The only thing hooked up is the cpu 1j17 connector. All other connectors are unhooked. Below are my tp and pin voltages. I need some help. I'm in Panama so sending this board out is not a good option. In no stranger to electronics but I'm stuck here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a wife constantly asking, Are you done yet? And a daughter who wants to have a sleepover tonight so her friends can play pinball.

On my powder distribution board I have as follows,
Tp1-4.98v
Tp2-Grnd
Tp3-11.42
Tp4-15.20

Connector 3J6
Pin 1,grnd
2-14.86v
3-14.2v
4-4.94v
5-0
6-14.11v
7-4.94v
8-0
9-0
10-4.9v

CPU 1J17
1,2,3- grnd
4-4.92v
5-4.92v
6-4.92v
7-0
8-15.12v
9-11.88v

I did all this and it all checks good.

"Test for Proper voltage on the boards.
Your game will never run if you don’t have +5 volts on the CPU board. But first you must test for ground on the CPU board. To test for ground, turn the game off and set your DMM to “ohms”. Make sure you get zero ohms from the ground test point TP1 (to the left of the batteries) on the CPU board, to the metal shield or ground strap in the backbox.
Next set your DMM to DC volts. Turn the game on, and test for +5 volts at TP2 on the CPU board (TP2 is to the right of chip U21). Make sure the black lead of your DMM on ground (backbox grounding strap). Now test for +5 volts right at the chips themselves. For example, test for +5 volts at U15 (the 6808 CPU) at pin 8. The 2764 EPROM at U26 and the 27256 EPROM at U27 will have +5 volts at pin 28. The 6821 PIA’s at U10, U38, U41, U42, U51, U54 will have +5 volts at pin 20. Remember, pin 1 of all chips is by the “notch” in the chip. Also there is usually a white “dot” printed on the circuit board to show pin 1."

#2 8 years ago

Another possible issue I noticed.
At u15 and u21 I have 6802 ic's instead of 6808. I just read I needed to make some modifications to use the 6802 chip. Is this correct?
This is what I read. My chips are made by Motorola.

WILLIAMS LEVEL 11 - 11C (USES 2 PROCESSORS)

THIS SERIES OF CPU¡¯S WILL ACCEPT EITHER 6808/ 6802 AT U15, (THE CPU SECTION) OR U24 (THE SOUND SECTION), WITH NO JUMPERS INVOLVED.

OF COURSE, THERE IS ONE SMALL EXCEPTION. WILLIAMS DOES MAKE A JUMPER DESIGNATION FOR THE LEVEL 11 SERIES USING EITHER 6808/ 6802. IT CONCERNS THE JUMPERS W16 (FOR U15) AND W17 (FOR U24). THESE JUMPERS ARE USED WHEN THE 6808/ 6802 IS MADE BY MOTOROLA.

#3 8 years ago

I have my cpu on the benchtop power supply. Set to 5v. Leon's EPROMs in and logic probe hooked up. On the logic probe I get high almost everywhere and I see no pulsing anywhere.

#4 8 years ago

Replaced U15 and u25 with new IC's. Tested clock at U15 pin39. It makes my logic probe beep so I guess that's good. It's the only thing I've found that pulses. Everything else is locked high or low.

U15 pin40, my reset line checks good also. It's low for half a second then stays high.

Also went through all my PIA's and they check good. I used this,

"Check the 6821 PIA Chips with a DMM.
Now test the PIA chips U10, U38, U41, U42, U51, U54 (and U9 if pre-sys11c) with a DMM. With the game off, set your DMM to the “diode” setting, and put the red lead on ground (pin 1). Then put the black lead on pins 2-9 (PA0-PA7) and pins 10-17 (PB0-PB7), one by one. You should get a reading between .5 to .6 volts (only exception being U51 pin 9 showing zero if tested in the board). If you get a zero reading (a short) for any pin 2 to 17, replace that PIA. This test can be performed with the PIA chips in the board. This isn’t a fool-proof testing method, but it will show a short in a PIA chip (I have fixed a number of bad PIAs using this method)."

#5 8 years ago

Grrrrrr! Why can't I be smarter?

#6 8 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

OF COURSE, THERE IS ONE SMALL EXCEPTION. WILLIAMS DOES MAKE A JUMPER DESIGNATION FOR THE LEVEL 11 SERIES USING EITHER 6808/ 6802. IT CONCERNS THE JUMPERS W16 (FOR U15) AND W17 (FOR U24). THESE JUMPERS ARE USED WHEN THE 6808/ 6802 IS MADE BY MOTOROLA.

The exceptions were 6802 processors made by Hitachi if I remember correctly.

Reset line seems to be okay (you can easily check....just remove the 12V, pin 40 -> 0 volts then?)....you get a clock. You can try to swap U15 and U24 and see if something more happens......

#7 8 years ago

I've replaced u15 and u24 already.

Any other ideas?

#8 8 years ago

Leon's ROM doesn't need the 6116 RAM to start. Maybe it is defective and prevents the test program from starting. You can remove it, together with the PIA's if they are socketed and try to run the test ROM.

#9 8 years ago

Do any of the 3 LEDs light up at all?

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from pinwiz_pa:

Do any of the 3 LEDs light up at all?

No. I get nothing. On this board I have the little 7 segment display instead of the three LEDs. Either way I get nothing. No lights.

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

I have my cpu on the benchtop power supply. Set to 5v. Leon's EPROMs in and logic probe hooked up. On the logic probe I get high almost everywhere and I see no pulsing anywhere.

It is also necessary to make a temporary connection between the right side of zener diode ZR1 and +5 volts.
The whole test setup. The red arrow marks connector 1J17 where you should connect +5 volt to pin 4 and ground to pin 3. Also visible is the extra check led (usage is described in this document) between the +5 volt and pin 15 of cpu chip U15. A temporary connection (black wire) between +5 volt and the right side of zener diode Z1. (This diode is just left of the batteries)

Now we're started, if you're lucky the check led will blink, and if the PIA in IC 51 is ok, the diagnostic led of the board which is connected to this PIA , will also blink..If you have an early type system 11 there is a little display , there a number 7 will blink.

......In the worst case...

If the program doesn't run, we'll have to look at the basics and that's the CPU-chip-6808 itself. First replace the 6808 which is the fastest thing to do, the chip is socketed! Use a 6808 of which you're sure or a new one... Still doesn't work ? Then check these pins: 2, 3, 8, 35, and 40 they all have to be positive (around 4 volt). On pin 39 there's the clock signal, on pin 4 IRQ and on pin 5 the VMA signal, and on pin 37 signal E (syncro for external parts) these all have to be around 2 to 3 volts (measured with a DMM). They are moving signals, here you find some examples of them.

http://www.system11.org/tech/system11_cpu.html

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
2,800
Machine - For Sale
West Chester, PA
$ 39.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 29.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinBoss Mods
 
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
3,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Fargo, ND
3,152 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Pulaski, PA
$ 35.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
4,800 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Kingston, OK
$ 18.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 175.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
From: $ 17.00
Lighting - Backbox
Twisted Tokens
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-help-system-11-doa-im-stuck and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.