(Topic ID: 30532)

Tech help: TOTAN Final Update..thanks Clive!


By PBINTHESOUTH

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 38 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by PBINTHESOUTH
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Hello, to all and thanks ahead for the advice..I'm a newbie to this but getting better everyday.

Anyway have 2 problems now on my machine and not sure if they are related but here goes..

Pilot Air to my home immediately take inside and it plays a few games.. then all of the sudden will reset during gameplay only.. and no rhyme or reason.. could be early and does not seem dependent on any shot combo/action.. no errors reported.

Several others suggested the following which I did plus some others.. including reseating every connector I could find attached to any boards or power supplies.. used different outlet to wall.. cord to back of pb is nl no obvious burnt connectors or fuses.. even changed out batteries.. made sure no loose chips on boards...

Plug back in, run lamp/flashers/sound tests and no switch errors reported.. looks good to go.
Play a 5 ball game and it works flawlessly..

Wife now ready to play them.. interruption reset 2 games in a row.. the last it acted like it didn't want to restart and you could smell a faint burnt/electrical smell but no obvious noise/smoke/burn marks when pf lifted and translite removed...

Let rest overnight.. NOW it has an error report.. SOUND BOARD U 10-12 Ram Error Sound Error Sys. 3.62 10/15/96.

And of course no sound on sound test just the dong ten times on start up.. BUT crazy I played a 2 person game... NO RESETS.

If you look at the MPU board there are 3 less..LED201 is off, LED 203 in middle flickers, LED below that is on..

On the AV board.. LED501 which appears to be near the U10 and u12 chips is off..

Anybody have any suggestions how to fix the above problems would be much appreciated!

#2 7 years ago

TOTAN is a great game, I still want one some day. Congrats on getting one.

Anyway, as to your trouble. The only time I ever had reset problems like your describing was due to a fried bridge rectifier. Look on your board for loose heat sinks on the BR's. If one it loose, look for smoke lines above it. If those clues are present, you need to replace that BR. Its not hard to do, but anytime you have to do work on your P/D board its a little unnerving.

#4 7 years ago

TOTAN uses the fat diodes, not bridge rectifiers.

I would check the voltage test points on the power driver board, and then power going to the AV board.

See if any are low or missing.

You may have done over kill on the reset and may have caused some problems with your game.

I would have checked wall outlet voltage, and then checked if game was wired for that. Then gone through the pinwiki steps.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

LTG : )

#5 7 years ago

You might have a bad ASIC now based on the no sound error.

#6 7 years ago

Start simple....reseat all the ribbon cables and make sure they're on good. After a long trip, things tend to come loose during the vibration of traveling.

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

TOTAN uses the fat diodes, not bridge rectifiers.

Interesting. Is that common or specific to TOTAN?

#8 7 years ago

Oooh... thanks for the link LTG

Do the LED lights mean anything?

Is the sound issue a separate problem?

Several others mentioned checking the bridge rectifier also.. though I have no idea what that is...

Fortunately another person local nearby that has a voltmeter and familiar with some board problems is trying to make it over soon to help out...

#9 7 years ago

TOTAN uses WPC-95 which replaced the Bridge recs with diodes as well as some other changes from previous version of the power driver board. Certain games (TOTAN, afm...) use this and earlier games used the older version.

#10 7 years ago

PBINTHESOUTH - You have a pricy little game. I would suggest that if your new to this you might want to consider sending out your boards for repair/inspection. I use K's arcade they are fast not inexpensive but should be less then doing some real damage on the board. I started off small doing simple work and then after a few years started to dabble in board work that was simple and easy to understand. You can also look at K's to see what a replacement board would cost so you get an idea of what your playing with might be above or below your comfort level. Also Keith at K's can help you with telling you to ship this board or test this once you start working with him.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

LTG said:

TOTAN uses the fat diodes, not bridge rectifiers.

Interesting. Is that common or specific to TOTAN?

Common to games from AFM on I believe.

LTG

#12 7 years ago

Yes, all connectors were reseated and it did seem to work great.. once.

LTG is right... no BR all fat diodes.. just saw that at end of pinwiki link.. Also quite obvious many steps need to be taken first with voltmeter to make sure at least resets are not coming from off board areas.. before even considering doing any board work..

Sucks that while working on this sound board problem is now occurring and unlikely related to reset problems...

#13 7 years ago

Did you check the audio fuses in your AV board with the DMM? Also, your MM uses the same AV board as the TOTAN. You can swap the TOTAN AV board into the MM (and swap the sound roms) and see if there is sound in MM.

#14 7 years ago

100 % longshot, but here goes.

Does it have anything to do with the shooting star ball save?

On mummites TOTAN, the game would turn off 'randomly', eventually he figured out that it was the ball save.

A plastic piece had fallen out of the right assembly and it was causing metal on metal contact when the right ball save activated, which caused the machine to turn off. Easy fix but took a long time to diagnose.

#15 7 years ago

Just learning rules.. how does the shooting ball save work so I can watch for it... went thru an entire game yesterday (no sound) w/o any reset.. even able to put initials on for grand champion.. seen I had changed the batteries out.. not much fun w/o sound.

Also if I were to switch AV boards out.. doesn't switching roms mean soldering? Again I've never even come close to doing any board work.

I'm going to print all of these suggestions out and try the pinwiki suggestions and hopefully fix it..

Thanks for everyone's help and I'll report back, hopefully very soon.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

Just learning rules.. how does the shooting ball save work so I can watch for it... went thru an entire game yesterday (no sound) w/o any reset.. even able to put initials on for grand champion.. seen I had changed the batteries out.. not much fun w/o sound.
Also if I were to switch AV boards out.. doesn't switching roms mean soldering? Again I've never even come close to doing any board work.
I'm going to print all of these suggestions out and try the pinwiki suggestions and hopefully fix it..
Thanks for everyone's help and I'll report back, hopefully very soon.

The pinwiki suggestions aren't going to be very helpful when the machine is not resetting. So for now debug the sound issue. Swapping Rom chips just requires popping them out carefully with a flat blade screw driver. Be careful to not bend the pins or put them in backwards or mix up the order. Did you check the fuses yet with a meter?

#17 7 years ago

Quickest way to rule the shooting star issue out is to test the solenoid for it in the test menu.

It's the two ball saves that push the little metal poles up through the playfield.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The pinwiki suggestions aren't going to be very helpful when the machine is not resetting.

Agreed.

But had they been done first, the other problems might not have surfaced. They may have well resulted from reseating and pushing on things.

It is easy to damage boards this way.

LTG : )

#19 7 years ago

I know.. just assuming it will start resetting again soon, since it has done that ever since arriving..
Bill (pinhead54) will be coming over soon to walk me thru all of this..
will go pick up a good DMM tomorrow, as I'm obviously going to need this for my pb toolbox.

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

Bill (pinhead54) will be coming over soon to walk me thru all of this..

Excellent. A little hands on help and guidance will go a long to to fixing your game, helping make you more familiar with it.

And able to enjoy it more.

LTG : )

1 week later
#21 7 years ago

OK ,so here's where I'm at now.. Tim (theBaronVonbell) actually walked me thru this over the phone.

Bought a DMM.. wall outlet is grounded and has nl voltage and is off a major circuit.
Voltage seems to be fine leaving the PowerDriver board into the MPU board and into connectors
PDB J101 to MPUJ210 nl voltage
PDB J101 to AVB J606 nl voltage
LED on AV is OFF while on or during game play.. BUT does blink 10 times
ALONG with sound donging 10 times..

Error message Sound Error U10-12 Ram error
No sound during gameplay at all
Only sound is 10 error dongs when machine turned on
Game is NO LONGER RESETTING, every light/DMD/Backlite/switch functions is normal
except NO SOUND

At this point I do not want to do any board work myself.
And I'm also afraid of doing harm to my MM machine or MM board by switching out the AV boards between machines.

Am I at the point where it's safe to assume that it's entirely coming from the TOTAN AV board and send it off to Coin op Cauldron for repairs?

Thanks ahead

#22 7 years ago

I would still swap the av board around with MM if it were me. the guy that talked you through the dmm work could talk you through the av board and rom swap. As long as the roms all go into the same sockets you pull them out of and in the same orientation, there should be nothing to worry about. I guess I'd try the Totan av board in the mm with the mm roms first. I swap boards often to narrow down issues. For me it's way faster than metering every schematic. Once the problematic board is found, then it's time to tear into the schematics.

Anyways, I wouldn't send the av boards off for repair without that test. If it works great in MM then it's fine. It could even be your roms.

#23 7 years ago

All right so I may try the rom switch myself.

I'm still thinking this is going to require expert board work because
the 10 dong sound according to the manual is very specific for AUDIO STATIC RAM failure.

I know this is a dumb question, but if I take the ROMS off my MM sound board and place onto the TOTAN AV board into my MM machine and the sound works..

I just need to replace my ROMs (are these even replaceable)?
or board still needs to be sent for repair?

and if so why does the error say static RAM failure?

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

I know this is a dumb question, but if I take the ROMS off my MM sound board and place onto the TOTAN AV board into my MM machine and the sound works..

Then you narrowed it down to possibly one of the ROMS you switched or bad ribbon cable to AV board in TOTAN.

LTG : )

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

I just need to replace my ROMs (are these even replaceable)?
or board still needs to be sent for repair?

John Wart posts here and can fix you up with any ROMS you ever need -

http://www.thatpinballplace.com/

Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

and if so why does the error say static RAM failure?

Because your static RAM has a problem, it, how it's mounted ( bad socket, bad solder ) or how it is accessed ( ribbon cable )

LTG : )

#26 7 years ago

Bad ribbon cable?
I know what part that is.. but now you're really confusing me.
Wouldn't the ribbon cable be fine since all other functions on pb machine are operating normally..
arent the ribbon cables just data transporters for all MPU functions?

Are the ROMS replaceable?

#27 7 years ago

Sorry just saw your info I was posting while you posted

#28 7 years ago

Looks like I'm still headed back to sending this board out..
Have the board inspected, check out ROM or RAM replace as needed
and could even put a new ribbon cable from MPU to board..

And all probems solved?

I don't want to do any board work besides maybe the switch out on ROMs

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

And all probems solved?

You won't know that until you start gaining ground on it.

LTG : )

#30 7 years ago

Well, yuk..
Removed AV board.. looked nice and clean on front
But backside had multiple burn marks? hacks?
Anyway shipped off to Coin op Cauldron to see if it can be repaired.
Rottendog may be on my christmas shopping list..
Sorry didn't take a pic before shipping

#31 7 years ago

Burn marks don't necessarily mean anything. Did you keep the roms and label them? A new rottendog board won't do anything without the rom chips. Without doing the tests, you may have sent your board off for nothing. . That was the purpose of all the tests I kept trying to get you to run.

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

Anyway shipped off to Coin op Cauldron to see if it can be repaired

Clive will do a fine job on the board and at least you know the board is 100% when you get it back. The only problem is you most likely wont get it back for 2 months. He fixed up my LOTR PD board for me a couple years ago but, the wait was a killer for me. Next time I may try Rob Anthony when I'm in need of some professional board repair. Good luck!

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

Well, yuk..
Removed AV board.. looked nice and clean on front
But backside had multiple burn marks? hacks?
Anyway shipped off to Coin op Cauldron to see if it can be repaired.
Rottendog may be on my christmas shopping list..
Sorry didn't take a pic before shipping

PM me if your board is toast. I bought a Rottendog WPC95 Audio/Visual board a while back as a spare & have never installed it in a game.

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

Well, yuk..
Removed AV board.. looked nice and clean on front
But backside had multiple burn marks? hacks?

As I recall this all started when your game was moved ?

If so, check behind all boards for metal stuff like bolts and screws. Loose things may have gotten into areas they don't belong in. And short and burn the backs of boards quite nicely.

Check behind all the boards in the head, and the coin door interface board up front by coin door that the coin door harness plugs onto.

LTG : )

#35 7 years ago

LTG, Will do!

And thanks to everyone for their above advice... I was prepared to install board into MM with switched ROMs.. but once I saw the back of the board did not want to risk damaging my MM..

Clive was quite nice and thinks he can turn it around in 7-8 business days...

Thanks also regarding the offer for the Rottendog board.. will contact you if needed, thanks!

1 week later
#36 7 years ago

Thanks to Clive at Coin op cauldron...

I guess I now know why people prefer to see the machine first before buying.. apparently a lot of repairs to previous board work/hacks?

Hi Steven.

Your Arabian Nights A/V board has now been repaired, fully tested and is 100% functional. The board had quite a lot of work as there was intermittent failure of the high voltage power supply and complete failure of the audio system after 2+ hours of testing in addition to the RAM issue. The capacitors were way out-of-tolerance with both 10,000 audio filter capacitors being 6100uf and 6600uf. The 79l05 regulator has been replaced in the past and I suspect that there was damage to this power rail which resulted in the later audo failure.

Hopefully all will be OK now

#37 7 years ago

Awesome. Please update the thread after you install the board back into the system.

#38 7 years ago

Thanks again Clive.

Game appears to be working 100%.
Coin op was recommended to me by another pinsider (I also understand Rob at Lockwhenlit is very good also) and so crossed my fingers..

Hopefully will stay this way for a while. Thanks for all of the suggestions..

Learning a little day by day on taking care of these babies.. but still feeling pretty ignorant

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