(Topic ID: 171404)

Tech Help needed for my IJ (williams)

By per3per3

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by per3per3
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

I just picked up a beautiful IJ but there's a little trouble in paradise and I'm hoping someone can help me diagnose several issues that I've already posted to the IJ owners thread but was directed here as well:

1) There's something funky going on with the ball trough. I'll caveat by saying that new trough optos boards from great lakes modular were installed less than a year ago and I don't think it's the optos as they all work perfectly in test with no intermittance (even the trough jam one) even when I shake the machine/bang the flippers/etc.. Here are the symptoms:
- ball will sometimes take a while to register a drain and/or not load into the shooter lane at the start of a new ball without lightly shaking the machine a bit
- on a few occasions, a ball randomly gets placed into the shooter lane during a game but doesn't launch. Once a ball is drained and it's time for the next ball, a ball is loaded into the shooter lane so there's now two (the game doesn't recognize the initial one that was already there from the middle of the previous ball.
- more than one ball is launched from the trough or from the idol (usually after a ball has been locked but not 3 to actually start multiball) so there are multiple balls at play but there isn't supposed to be. Once a ball drains, the game registers the end of the ball which confirms that the other ball still at play isn't legitimate
Are these all connected? All of the trough optos as well as the ball lock and idol (entry opto and exit switch) all seem to be working correctly in switch test.
Is it possible I need a new trough? Could the newer trough opto boards be broken? Both?

2) I'm having an idol issue. The idol motor and optos are fine in test as well as the exit switch. With mine, it looks like the lock door doesn't open and close for each of the three balls and the third ball only is released once one ball drains. I found another thread that says it likely either an intermittent idol exit switch or an issue with the idol lock door assembly. Someone even noticed an issue with the corner tip of the lock plastic catching the plastic and not closing properly. Could someone confirm the correct process/actions of the idol once you lock the third ball to start multiball: the third ball should enter the idol, it should then rotate, the idol lock door should open thus releasing a ball, the idol lock door should close, the idol rotates, the lock door open releasing ball #2...etc.. and this corresponds to the elephant sound.

3) Every so often, the path of adventure diverter post (the one operated by a coil that stops the ball before the path of adventure entry) doesn't pop back up when the path of adventure is lit so the ball just goes right past it and down the metal ramp back in play (the path will move right and left when this happens as it expects the ball to go there). The post moves freely up and down (manually) and the coil and wiring seem fine. The post isn't bent and it's centered in the hole with nothing blocking its path. In test and in game, it works when it's not stuck down...but once that happens the test doesn't lift it...I have to lift the playfield vertically and then it goes back into position

#2 7 years ago

First thing is check the right front switch on the path of adventure. Balls hit it underneath and short the wiring and diode together. That will clean up some of your issues.

LTG : )

#3 7 years ago

I will definitely look into that...it's interesting how that's related but I think I saw that mentioned in the thread. You're talking about the switch that's kinda directly behind and above the mod start hole?

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from per3per3:

You're talking about the switch that's kinda directly behind and above the mod start hole?

How many right front switches do you see on the path of adventure - the upper right moving playfield ?

LTG : )

#5 7 years ago

Also make sure the connector at the opto controller board itself is seated well. I had a similar behavior on Medieval, and found it to be the connectors where the wires go through (i.e. wedged into the connector rather than than ending at the terminal with a crimped pin). I have can flaky things happen where the connectors at the under-PF opto board are on/off causing the false register of opto hits. Especially on the connector coming from the trough/autolaunch mech like on Indy or MM. Plenty of folks have replaced the transmit or receive boards, only to find the real issue is in the opto board or (more likely in my experience) the connector to the opto board.

Perhaps esp. in MM, where the Opto board is subject to more vibration during gameplay - either popping trolls or during multiball, enough to wiggle a weak connector and produce a false open opto signal

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Also make sure the connector at the opto controller board itself is seated well. I had a similar behavior on Medieval, and found it to be the connectors where the wires go through (i.e. wedged into the connector rather than than ending at the terminal with a crimped pin). I have can flaky things happen where the connectors at the under-PF opto board are on/off causing the false register of opto hits. Especially on the connector coming from the trough/autolaunch mech like on Indy or MM. Plenty of folks have replaced the transmit or receive boards, only to find the real issue is in the opto board or (more likely in my experience) the connector to the opto board.
Perhaps esp. in MM, where the Opto board is subject to more vibration during gameplay - either popping trolls or during multiball, enough to wiggle a weak connector and produce a false open opto signal

Thanks...I'll definitely take a look tonight!

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

How many right front switches do you see on the path of adventure - the upper right moving playfield ?
LTG : )

I'm a work and not in front of the machine. I haven't explored that area of the game and can't visualize what you're referring to. Either way, I added it to the list.

2 weeks later
#8 7 years ago

Great news and crap news: all of the previous problems are fixed (rebuilt both assemblies) but I stupidly created a new one.

I swapped some LEDs out with the machine off, turned it on to see how things looked and forgot to screw a lamp socket back in...I did so and shorted something. Now I'm getting the mini playfield error left and right. The mini playfield isn't functioning (moving left or right) so, based on my research with previous posts, it seems like perhaps I fried the path of adventure bridge driver PCB board (part# A-15946).

I'm still a bit new and not quite sure how to test for it. In the path of adventure test, it comes up that it's not functioning properly (in alignment to the related errors on the test report).

How do I diagnose this? Could it merely be a blown fuse that controls the board and path of adventure motor? The board is available from Marco.

Thanks!

#9 7 years ago

The LED for the board is lit and fuses 115 & 116 look ok.

#10 7 years ago

I tested every fuse for continuity and everything checks out there.

I'm hoping this is just the board as that's an easy fix and one is on the way

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#11 7 years ago

I'm not going to be able to help very much since my skill level is probably similar to yours. However I have broken Indy many times over the years and often the mini pf will show errors and stop working when the real problem is something different. Example: I thought I had fried the motor but in reality it was a bad ribbon cable between two of the boards.

So I'm saying don't panic and assume it's the mini pf even though it's showing an error. Now we wait for a more experienced pinsider to point you in the right direction!

#12 7 years ago

Morning/New Week/Thanks FlippyD BUMP!

#13 7 years ago

So what happens when you go into switch edge test? Does any or all the switches and optos register?
You may have blown the U20 on the MPU board.

You could even swap the MPU with the TZ to see that a problem moves to the TZ and the TZ MPU makes the IJ good again.

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

So what happens when you go into switch edge test? Does any or all the switches and optos register?
You may have blown the U20 on the MPU board.
You could even swap the MPU with the TZ to see that a problem moves to the TZ and the TZ MPU makes the IJ good again.

All of the switches on the mini playfield register in switch edge test. Not sure where the related optos are located. I should be getting the replacement bridge driver board on Thurs or Fri and will report back once I install it...I'm really hoping that's the fix!

#15 7 years ago

In other news, my right flipper started to lose a bit of strength in mid-game and briefly sticks in the up position before dropping back down. I have read that I should look at the interrupter plates and clean the flipper optos with a q-tip and windex. I'll go ahead and do that as well as replace the interrupter since they're cheap and I experienced a similar problem (the sticking, not the lose of flipper strength) 6 months ago on my demo man.

The flippers were rebuilt a year or two ago, so I highly doubt this is mechanical. Could it be the coil or EOS?

What coils do you all recommend for Indy? I believe the manual says to use the lowest power ones but both ramps are fairly steep and I already experience a bit of difficulty getting up the ramps...especially the right one. I've lowered the game a bit which helped some.

Thanks!

#16 7 years ago

Sorry, for some reason I took your latest battles as having multiple switch problems.

You should be able to tilt the POA left and right in the switch edge test to see if the POA optos are registering.

Quoted from per3per3:

The flippers were rebuilt a year or two ago, so I highly doubt this is mechanical. Could it be the coil or EOS?

You can test with an ohmmeter to be sure the switch is opening and closing.

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Sorry, for some reason I took your latest battles as having multiple switch problems.
You should be able to tilt the POA left and right in the switch edge test to see if the POA optos are registering.

You can test with an ohmmeter to be sure the switch is opening and closing.

Do you mean manually forcing the POA left and right in switch edge test. The motor isn't functioning (it's controlled by the board that i think may be fried) so it wouldn't move unless I forced it. I gently tried tilting it earlier today and it didn't move.

Regarding the flippers, are you referring to testing the EOS?

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from per3per3:

Regarding the flippers, are you referring to testing the EOS?

Yes.

Quoted from per3per3:

Do you mean manually forcing the POA left and right in switch edge test.

Yes. Or you can even remove the board, leave it connected and go into the switch test and wave something between the transmitter/receiver U shaped optos to see if the two register.

#19 7 years ago

Problem solved. Somehow I fried the bridge driver board and I just replaced it a she's back in business! I replaced the flipper opto interrupter plastic piece and cleaned the optos on the fliptronics board and that seems to have done the trick!

I can finally enjoy my Indy!

Thanks to everyone for their help

#20 7 years ago

The game played flawlessly over the weekend...but I just noticed a new issue. The center hole behind the 3 drop-target bank (the one that you enter to lock balls) is randomly registering when I'm not hitting it. Earlier today, I started randomly getting credit for things that occur when you hit that switch during different parts of the games: "You cheat Dr. Jones", Dogfight completion, and shoot for the jackpot during multiball. I'll get multiple "you cheat dr. jones" $5M awards during gameplay when I'm nowhere near that part of the playfield.

Everything completely checks out during switch edge test and I tested the individual opto for the center exit switch (#45), and it seems fine. I've never had a switch matrix issue, and though I'm hoping this isn't it I'm afraid it sounds like that. I'm having a bunch of folks over tomorrow night for a tourney (basically in celebration of Indy finally being 100%) and would love to take care of this tomorrow if that's possible and perhaps it's not a complicated fix.

I'm not sure what else I can do to diagnose or how to fix this and would greatly appreciate some help. What a bummer...I was really enjoying this game (finally) but I guess I'm not out of the weeds just yet.

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