TECH: Gottlieb System 80B - Dipswitch settings not working

Help!

I've got a Gottlieb Bad Girls Pinball that is working 100% except for one strange problem I can't quite figure out.

Looking at the dipswitch chart in the backbox it shows.

Dip Switch 25 - Balls Per Game
ON - 3
OFF - 5

Dip Switch 26 - Match Feature
ON
OFF

I have moved both of these dipswitches on my CPU board to ON for 25 & 26 respectively and neither of these functions work. My game is always 5 balls per game and I'm not getting a match feature at the end of the game. I have also removed my CPU board and checked for continuity across the traces of these dip switch traces testing them with the dip switch open and closed and the dip switch themselves are working correctly. I know the problem is not in the dip switch bank, or the zener diodes below the dip switch banks.

My question is there an IC that regulates the dipswitch settings for each of the dip switches on the CPU board? As no matter what I choose, OPEN or CLOSED on Dip Switch 25 and 26 makes no difference as it's always a 5 ball game with no match feature.

Anyone else with a Bad Girls able to confirm for me if these are the correct dip switches on your machine by adjusting these dipswitches to see if your game goes between 3 and 5 ball and match feature?

All in all, I really enjoy the game. Besides it's very cheesy artwork. It's actually a really fun machine. Reminds me a bunch of Eight Ball Deluxe. I love the spinner in the upper right.

....ah if only the backglass had hotter chicks on it.

Craig

#2 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

Hi Craig, if the DS is working follow the line up to the IC connecting to it. I'm not near a schematic right now but it sounds like there may be a switch matrix issue with one of the 7400 IC's. Put the game into switch test 18 and verify that all the playfield switches on that line are working. If not, change the 7400.

Steve

#3 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

Also, you could have an interruption at the piggyback board. Have all the pins been re-flowed?

Steve

#4 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

All switches on the playfield work fine. The game plays 100% with the exception of not being able to switch from 5 to 3 ball game and match feature not working.

No I have not reflowed the back of the piggyback board.

#5 10 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

Olympia, WA

12y 83,400 5,965

Chips Z13 and Z14 control dip switch settings.

#6 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Thank you Ken. That's exactly what I needed to know. I'm going to pick up a couple of NTE equavalents after work this evening and report back if that did the trick.

#7 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Crap, still not working.
Replaced z13 & z14. Also checked for continuity from dipswiches 25 & 26 up to legs on ic's z13 & z14. Thinking it might be something even further up the chain.

#8 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

Craig, I kinda thought so since you said all playfield switches were working fine. The logic for the dip switches is on the piggyback board. Check for a crack around a soldered pin, also a possibility is a bad socket on that board. You could even have a corrupt ROM.

Steve

#9 10 years ago

GEP

Gerry

Inactive member

Syracuse, NY

11y 66,900 3,808 26

Craig, listen to Steve he is the Gottlieb expert of all experts...

He can do no wrong !

He is spot on every time

Now get at it !

#10 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

LOL, now don't go that far Gerry, I'm not always right. I can only give my best guess using the information posted since I can't see the game in person.

Steve

#11 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Steve, you may be right.

A previous problem i thought might have been the cause of the issue was that all the paper labels were missing from the roms chips. Doing the memory test, i would get a Eprom 2 error. This was due to the fluorescent bulb erasing/ corrupting eprom 2. Ive since replaced eprom 2 and covered all eprom windows in backbox. Thought that might have been the fix to this error at first, but that didnt do the trick.

Although i dont get any eprom error for prom 1 in memory test, I'm willing to try replacing the rom chip as it too was missing the paper label.

Steve, do you have gottlieb proms? I guess ill try replacing prom 1. Game is 717 if that helps. Pm me if you can help.

Another error i think i may be getting that is probably related to a dipswitch setting is the attract mode music. I dont have a manual for Bad Girls but I'm going on a hunch that either dipswitch 31 or 32 will turn on/off attract mode sounds. Ive tried different settings for 31 and 32 and it still plays "bad...bad....ba, ba, bad" everytime.

Can someone with a manual confirm if 31 and/or 32 dips have anything to do with attract mode?

#12 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

I'm still thinking that you have solder issues at the piggyback board. If the dip switches in question test as working, the PROM on the piggyback board is good and since it receives program setting information from the dip switches, it's logical that there's a break in the trace line somewhere. A good place to start is the solder since it's a known source of issues in that design. Certain issues won't show up in test 20 since the PROM tests out as good (because it usually is) and the dip switch is just an input selection line (off-on). So you may have the dip switch set to on but the PROM sees it as off because of a break in the line (hopefully this makes sense, haven't had my coffee yet).

I don't have any spare PROM's but I probably have the files if needed.

Steve

#13 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Thanks for all of your advice Steve.
Earlier today I reflowed solder to the back of the piggyback board and also checked for continuity from the Rom chip on the piggyback board, each leg down to the board. All legs I was able to follow the path down to the board.

Needless to say I have sourced a prom 1 chip from another individual and ill report back after I have installed it to see if it made a difference.

On a side note. I will say that even though I was getting the eprom 2 error in memory test the game would function and play properly with the exception of the dip switches not working.

#14 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

The dip switches not working may be the cause of your EPROM2 error.

Steve

#15 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Eprom 2 has been replaced. New eprom from pbr. Dips didnt work before or after the new prom 2 chip was installed.

#16 10 years ago

GEP

Gerry

Inactive member

Syracuse, NY

11y 66,900 3,808 26

I can tell you that you can 100% siable the attract mode sounds in it...

It is in mine, but i dont have the game here, nor do i have the manual handy as its in the game...

I may be going there in a day or 2, at the soonest, i will keep a look out on this forum if you figure it out first, if not i will gran the manual and bring it home to try to help ya craig.

#17 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

I'm hoping you're right Craig, PROM1 and PROM2 have to work together and hold different gaming information from general audits to game rules. Hm, there's not much more that it can be that you haven't looked at. Before the new PROM1 gets there, how's do their IC sockets look?

Steve

#18 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Ic sockets look great. Ive reseated the prom chips too. Agreed, there isnt much else to check.
Just waiting for the new chip now.

#19 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

When you get the PROM (and it works), at least you'll know the piggyback board should be solid for a long time to come and any problems that may come up shouldn't be associated with it. (keeping fingers crossed)

Steve

#20 10 years ago

Q Q

cro_pinman

Inactive member

Did you checked Z15 ?

#21 10 years ago

SPC

blownfuse

In Memoriam

If a string of dips (25 - 32) weren't working, then yes, Z15 could be a cause. Craig, can you please verify?

Steve

#22 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Will do guys.
Here is the deal.
This weekend now I've got 2 switch rows that have shorted out. Weird. I think it might be due to the replacement chips I installed on the board as per recommended on pinwiki.

Anyhow, today at lunch I'm going to get new chips for Z11, Z12, Z13, Z14 and Z15. I will install all of these this evening and report back.

Still waiting on Game ROM 1, it's in transit but hasn't arrived yet. Probably won't get it today either with it being Presidents Day.

#23 10 years ago

CEL

Carl_694

Inactive member

Lexington, SC

10y 47,150 1,580 7

Not to hijack this thread, but how important is it that the game EPROMs have a label on them? Noticed the comment earlier and found it interesting.

#24 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Quoted from Carl_694:
Not to hijack this thread, but how important is it that the game EPROMs have a label on them? Noticed the comment earlier and found it interesting.

The fluorescent light bulb can erase the programming on the eprom if the window on the chip is left exposed, thus corrupting the firmware.

It is a common method to erase eprom chips by cleaning off the window and exposing the eprom chip to direct uv light.

#25 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Update.
Yesterday at lunch I picked up brand new 7400's, 7404's and 7432's.
Replaced Z11, Z12, Z13, Z14 and Z15

Game comes up and plays....but still unable to get match feature or change game from 5 to 3 balls.

Game PROM 1 still hasn't arrived yet. Hopefully today. Honestly if this doesn't fix it, I'm at witts end, I've done
just about everything I can think of.

#26 10 years ago

Q Q

cro_pinman

Inactive member

Make "bookmark" of yours DIP SW's settings

Turn ALL DIP SW ON

Turn power ON , and go to TEST mode ( DIP SW )

Write those letters (and numbers ? )

#27 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Quoted from cro_pinman:
Make "bookmark" of yours DIP SW's settings
Turn ALL DIP SW ON
Turn power ON , and go to TEST mode ( DIP SW )
Write those letters (and numbers ? )

Good call. Since it's an 80B, the game software will tell you which switches it's seeing.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#28 10 years ago

CEL

Carl_694

Inactive member

Lexington, SC

10y 47,150 1,580 7

With my Diamond Lady, there is a specific switch test in the manual to determine if they are working. You put evens in the on position and odds in the off, hit start and it should display a special code. Then you do the reverse and it shows something different. Can't recall exactly what and not at home, but it might be worth a try.

#29 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Hi guys,

Game PROM 1 arrived yesterday. It still made absolutely no difference in turning the game from 3 to 5 ball. Match feature still isn't working.

I then turned the game off, and moved every dip switch to ON. Tried playing a game that way. Still no 3 ball game and still no match.

Turned it off, and turned every dipswitch to OFF. Turned it on, played a game and still no 3 ball game or match feature.

This is a very weird problem. I've replaced Z11, Z12, Z13, Z14, Z15 and both Game PROMs on the CPU board. I've tested continuity below and above the traces on the dip switch bank and there is continuity across the traces, or a break in the continuity if I move the dip switches to OFF.

Last but not least. I don't have a manual for the game, I've been referencing the dip switch settings as shown on the factory dip switch chart in the backbox. It's not game specific though. Would some kind soul happen to have a scan of the bad girls manual they could send to me. Or send me to a link of where I can download it.

My e-mail address is: [email protected]

#30 10 years ago

Q Q

cro_pinman

Inactive member

Quoted from cro_pinman:
Make "bookmark" of yours DIP SW's settings
Turn ALL DIP SW ON
Turn power ON , and go to TEST mode ( DIP SW )
Write those letters (and numbers ? )

---

Did you go to TEST mode ?

#31 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

OP
Quoted from hassellcastle:
I've tested continuity below and above the traces on the dip switch bank and there is continuity across the traces, or a break in the continuity if I move the dip switches to OFF.

That was all good.
But, we still need to know if the processor is actually seeing those DIP switches.
Near the end of the tests, there is a specific display of the DIP switch settings.
As cro_pinman mentioned...
Set all DIPs on. Run the test. The display should show FF FF FF FF.
Set all switches OFF. Run the test. The display should show 00 00 00 00.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#32 10 years ago

CEL

Carl_694

Inactive member

Lexington, SC

10y 47,150 1,580 7

Quoted from Carl_694:
With my Diamond Lady, there is a specific switch test in the manual to determine if they are working. You put evens in the on position and odds in the off, hit start and it should display a special code. Then you do the reverse and it shows something different. Can't recall exactly what and not at home, but it might be worth a try.

With my 80b, they have to be done as noted with odds/evens alternating. I checked on my machine and it works.

#33 10 years ago

Q Q

cro_pinman

Inactive member

Thank you Chris for (better) explanation... I have ("little bit") language problem to express
(correctly ) whole "thing"

Cheers from Croatia

#34 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Ok, guys I will flip all dip switches UP and see them in Test Mode and then Down and see them in Test mode and report back what I see.

Stay tuned.....

However I'm a bit confused though.

I've seen the dip switch screen on the display and it typically only shows about 8 characters, while there are 32 dip switches. How is this going to prove, show anything.

Looks like this

DIP SWITCH SETTINGS
XX XX XX XX

#35 10 years ago

CNK

CNKay

Pinside member

It is hex displayed back. each number or letter would be 4 switches. F would be binary 1111 A would be binary 1010.
If you turn on 1 and every other switch(odd)on ie 3 5 7 9 ... You should see AA AA AA AA.
If you turn on 2 and every other switch (even ) on You should see 55 55 55 55.

This will exercise all bits.

#36 10 years ago

GEP

Gerry

Inactive member

Syracuse, NY

11y 66,900 3,808 26

My Bg's is not here, nor is the manual..... thought this woulda been sorted out long ago...

Its 1 switch to make it 3 ball..get the manual from PBR.. you need it anyway...

in light of everything you have already done, it sounds like there must be a break between that particular dip switch to it path further in the board, broken trace?

IDK.. got me at the moment..

good luck...I'm tuning in

#37 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Quoted from CNKay:
It is hex displayed back. each number or letter would be 4 switches. F would be binary 1111 A would be binary 1010.
If you turn on 1 and every other switch(odd)on ie 3 5 7 9 ... You should see AA AA AA AA.
If you turn on 2 and every other switch (even ) on You should see 55 55 55 55.
This will exercise all bits.

Bingo.
When I wrote FFFF, my memory was off. I corrected that.
Here ya go...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

image.jpg

image-756.jpg

#38 10 years ago

CNK

CNKay

Pinside member

wow i did not remember it being spelled out so nicely. i have big house manual but haven't looked at in years.

Good job, Chris You said nothing wrong.

How weird is this problem though. 1 in a billion?

#39 10 years ago

Q Q

cro_pinman

Inactive member

We have "new" infos....

OP
Quoted from hassellcastle:
Looks like this
DIP SWITCH SETTINGS
XX XX XX XX

Wierd isn't it ?

I'm not able to browse through my "secret" notes now, but tomorrow I will
Some ideas are present, but it's (much) better wait a while )

hassellcastle... don't "panic", all together we will take care of these "bad girls"

cheers

#40 10 years ago

AKB

Andy_B

Pinside member

Worksop

11y 50,550 516 3

It's been a while since I worked on Sys 80s but is a factory reset possible for this machine? Might be worth a try if so.

Andy

#41 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Well there is clearly something wrong. Attached pics are pics I took of the dip switch test. First pic is with all the dipswitches "off", while the second pic is with all the dips "on". Its clear that somewhere there is a break in the circuit as no matter how the dipswitches are set I'm getting no reading on the settings of the last dipswitches.

IMAG1234.jpg

IMAG1235.jpg

#42 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Here is pics of how I have the dips set on the game and how it shows up in dipswitch test.

IMAG1232.jpg

IMAG1233.jpg

#43 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Excellent. Those pics illustrate the problem well.
Even though you have switch 25 set to ON, the MPU isn't seeing it. Nor is it seeing any of the last 8-position switch settings. It's also not seeing switch 2, which is not that big of a deal since switch 2 is used to define "credits per coin drop".

Possible reasons...failed DIP switch. The slide switches fail sometimes.
...failed 1N4148 diodes
Failed gate on an IC that I'll have to look up later for you.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#44 10 years ago

Q Q

cro_pinman

Inactive member

Wow !!! One picture worth thousand words ) Whole string for (last) eight DIP SW doesn't work.

About DIP SW testing on SYS 80B
- pull ALL sw's down (off)
- go to DIP SW test menu
- push credit button
- on displays "MUST" be 00 00 00 00
- it's NOT necessary to make power off machine, leave POWER ON
- push one DIP SW to ON ( just ONE for make testing easier )
(you are still in DIP SW testing mode ! )
- push credit button - again
- on displays (depend which SW are selected) you will see change
- "bring back" tested DIP sw back to off
- push another ONE DIP sw to ON
- push credit button...again
- etc , etc...

(like Chris said.... when all DIP sw's are ON, there are FF FF FF FF on displays )

Back to Bad girl's problem ?

I think that's good idea to "take a look" on Z15 - pin 13 , and Z15 - pin 11
(with magnifier ) on BOTH sides of the board, and check continuity
between Z15 - pin 13 to Z33 - pin 4 (or Z34 - pin5 )
(it is signal DS3 which also goes to driver board for "some" lamps )

Also check continuity between Z15 - pin 11 to cathode of CR 25 (CR25 to CR32)

Hope that helps )

#45 10 years ago

CNK

CNKay

Pinside member

You may not have power to all the associated ic(s) that you looked at. For sure the last 8 switches are not being seen at all. If all the last 8 switch lines go to same ic and that ic is dead or has no 5v then that is your answer.

#46 10 years ago

CNK

CNKay

Pinside member

The picture you show of your game setting is all correct except for the last two xx characters.

It should read C3, and not 00.

#47 10 years ago

CNK

CNKay

Pinside member

what about z33 pin 4?? Do you have continuity from z33 pin 4 to Z15 pin 13. and not shorted to ground.

#48 10 years ago

CAH

hassellcastle

Thanks for the suggestion guys and exactly what pins to check out for continuity. I will look those over if not tonight this weekend and report back.

You guys are freakin' bad ass!
Thanks so much for all of your help.

#49 10 years ago

CNK

CNKay

Pinside member

Oh and I looked at the picture of your switches. Right above switch " two" is a resistor. Reflow that lower pad could be your switch two no read error problem. The pic is blurry but looks funny, maybe cold.

#50 10 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler