(Topic ID: 149771)

Tech: Gott King Rock Decagon reel switch stacks

By cody_chunn

8 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by dasvis
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King_Rock_reel_sticker_(resized).JPG
King_Rock_reel_switches_(resized).JPG
Gtb_Decagon_Zero_pos_(resized).jpg
Gtb_Decagon_9th_pos_(resized).jpg
Gtb_Decagon_1_8_pos_(resized).jpg
#1 8 years ago

When I picked this game up to recondition, the customer said when you turned it on, the "scores just start running".

With it set up at home, credit unit set to free play, pressing the Start button activates the S relay (good), activates the "SB" relay (more good), clicks the player unit home (good), and activates Z3 (good, the first of 3 reset relays).

Z3 is supposed to reset all P4 reels and 1K and 10K of P3. There is no action on any score reels, unless I hold the inner switch closed. So I think I've gotten all my reel switches hinked up.

The sticker says Inner switch is Reset Relay, 2nd switch is 9th position and 3rd switch is Runout.

Since P4 should reset first I am working there. The 10K reel unit only has 2 pair of double-contact switches. When I hold the inner pair (or either contact) closed the reel will advance. So obviously I have the switches adjusted incorrectly.

Would some one kindly point me to a resource that shows the state of these switches as the reel advances? It seems like mine are all open at 0, don't move until it hits 9, then all open again with 0 showing. So basically none of my score reels are resetting.

I beseech help from the collective.

Thanks!

#2 8 years ago

It depends on what style of switch stack those decagons have. Gottlieb was messing around with the style of stack, where the order of the switches is different than the style they settled into using later. Sounds like this one might be of the odd variety.

I would expect the 9th position to be closed when the reel is on 9, the runout to be closed at 1-9, and the reset to be closed at 0, but as I recall, there's a variety where the reset switch opens at zero instead.

So probably best to post a picture of the type of switch stack you have, so as to not guess about it.

#3 8 years ago

Yeah, thanks, I was going to do that very thing but either my rechargeables are shot or my camera is

It's the type with a U shaped wire that pushes on the blades (the other end rides on hills and vallies on the hub to move it back and forth. Hopefully the camera will work tomorrow.

Oh, and the two outside switches appear to be "doubled", with 4 contacts that bridge two lugs. Odd.

#4 8 years ago

Are they the switch blades that look like frog's heads?

Is the wire form slipped in between them?

(yeah, pictures would be an immense help)

Here's the later style.

Gtb_Decagon_1_8_pos_(resized).jpgGtb_Decagon_1_8_pos_(resized).jpg

Gtb_Decagon_9th_pos_(resized).jpgGtb_Decagon_9th_pos_(resized).jpg

Gtb_Decagon_Zero_pos_(resized).jpgGtb_Decagon_Zero_pos_(resized).jpg

#5 8 years ago

That's pretty much what they look like. I do believe the ends are frog-head-triangular in shape. Hopefully the camera will work tomorrow...

Thanks for the pics!

#6 8 years ago

OK, so in the case of those particular switches, the zero switch is on the bottom, the runout is in the middle, and the 9th is on the top.

King Rock may have a different order (from your description), so the open/close states may not match these.

#7 8 years ago

Thank you. I did find a pretty good youtube video explaining the switches and when they should transition. I hope to tonight implement this newly acquired knowledge and make some progress.

Right now, all switches are open at 0 position which obviously isn't right.

The reset sequence doesn't stop after turning it on but will stop if I manually activate the (if I remember) sequence bank relay which resets the two banks.

Not enough experience on EMs...they still trick me.

#8 8 years ago

Here's what I got and the sticker on the reels with three switches:

note the 10s and 1ks have the third switch in the middle.

Can you tell me the state these switches are supposed to be in for 1-8, 9 and 0?

I'm assuming "inside switch" means the one farthest from the frame?

King_Rock_reel_switches_(resized).JPGKing_Rock_reel_switches_(resized).JPG

King_Rock_reel_sticker_(resized).JPGKing_Rock_reel_sticker_(resized).JPG

#10 8 years ago

yes, follow Chris' link and use the "1st Generation" pictures as a reference. Those switch stacks are different than the ones I posted (which were from a later game).

I believe the "inside" switch is the one closest to the frame though.

#11 8 years ago

Thanks fellas! Shoulda checked the wiki first. Keep forgetting it's there...

#12 8 years ago

OK, the first gen pics make sense. However, several of my reels don't have a third switch. So for the reels that have only two switches, what state should they be in @ 0,1-8, and 9?

I'm having a devil of a time trying to adjust these switches. A tiny bit too far one way and they don't make/break. A tiny bit too far the other way and the wire actuator doesn't have enough power to move the blades.

Oh, and as an aside, remember those spring washers I took off so the reels would work properly? Yeah, don't do that. Those washers hold pressure on the reel so that the wire switch actuator has more throw. Still, I can't get them adjusted so that they work, let alone work smoothly.

It seems like if I get them close to working properly the reel doesn't have enough OOMPH to click all the way in 9th position and starts stuttering and chattering.

In the pics I posted above, the 10K reel has only two switches and no labels. What should their state be at 0, 1-8, and 9?

And for the ones labeled, which switch is closest to the plate the sticker is on?

I'm so confrused.

#13 8 years ago

The 10K reels won't have a "9th position" switch since there's no next reel to carryover. So the middle switch would be absent on those, and the remaining two switches are still the same ones as on the other reels.

"Inside" switch is closest to the bracket.

Sometimes the return springs that pull back and step the reel are weakened from use over the years. Try swapping springs with the ones on the 10K reels for the reels having more trouble getting past 9.

And yes, don't remove the washers.

#14 8 years ago

Wow, what a pain in the neck these decagons are! I now have player 3 and p4 resetting properly.

Reinstalled the spring washer which "pressurizes" the assembly, giving more throw at the switches. Still, getting those switches adjusted to that it counts and stops on zero is a very delicate process. There is what, like half a millimeter to work with? Or it either stays closed or never closes. What a nightmare design.

Anyway, thanks for the help, guys, you direction was sound; my execution was clumsy.

Half way there!

#15 8 years ago

Well, two steps up and three steps back.

After re-re-readjusting player 4 switches ('cause it resets that one first), I powered it up, pressed Start and all P4 reels counted to zero and stopped, and the first reset relay (Z3) dropped out and the second one (Z2) fired. Successful reset of P4! At this point the game would just cycle the motor indefinitely (P3 ,P2 & P1 not adjusted yet). Moved on to player 3 and the switches appeared to be adjusted properly. I left P4 at all zeroes and set P3 to all ones. Pressed Start. P3 went all zeroes, followed by indefinite cycling as P2 and P1 switches not adjusted yet.
Adjusted P2 and started a game. Reset to zeroes then cycle.
Adjusted P1 and started a game. Reset to zeroes fired the Control bank and Sequence bank reset solenoids and ended reset with flippers active, ready to play a game. Greta!

So, I set all 16 reels to something other than zero and game it up. A few reels responded trying to go back to zero, but before they can the game resets the control and sequence banks and goes to P1 B1 with who-cares-what the reels are showing. Killing the game with slam tilt and pressing start results in the same scenario: a few reels (not the same ones every time" count one or two steps then the bank resets fire and it goes to game up.

This has thrown me for a loop because I thought all 16 reels had to open their switches before the bank resets could fire. I'm in the process now of trying to decipher and relate the manual and schematic I got from Pinball Resource.

I would greatly appreciate any insight or suggestions as to how all 16 of my reels when not on zero, after meticulous adjustment of the switches to:
0=open/open/open
1-8= cosed/open/closed
9= closed/closed/closed

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and more for responding.

1 week later
#16 8 years ago

Man, these decagons are KILLIN me! I'm down to 3 or 4 reels not making it to zero or not stopping when it gets there. Perhaps not coincidentally, they are all the ones that don't have the wiper board.
Here's what they do when I manually step them around.

Upon hitting 9, the position with the most throw of the switch wire, all switches close.
One more step to 0 and all the switches open.
One more step to 1, and nothing happens. The tripwire should bump just a tad, just enough to close the outer 2 switches. I look at the rim that the tripwire rides against and it's flat right there...so it doesn't move the tripwire at all.

I installed these reels just like the ones with the wipers. With 0 facing the player and the first gear of the ratchet wheel meshing with the first gap of the rack.

Apparently there's a trick I'm missing...there's always a trick to doing anything...

#17 8 years ago

Those decagon switch stacks are a pain in the ass, especially if someone has bent them all up before.

I just finished up a couple of those - took me forever to get them just right.

#18 8 years ago

Upon closer inspection, the tripwire isn't contacting the rim all the way around. Certainly not at the deepest valley. That's why it doesn't move the switch blades going from 0 to 1. There's nothing to keep the tripwire riding against that rim so it only moves at the highest hill (9) and coming of that hill to 0. Then it floats out in the air and mocks me with its ability to not work properly.

Are the blades themselves supposed to put pressure on the wire? I couldn't figure out any way for the blades to add pressure either direction that helped at all.

Too much pressure from the blades seems to bomb it out as well.

"What do 'baffled' mean?"

#19 8 years ago

Yes, the switch stack blades provide the pressure against the reel.

#20 8 years ago

OK, I THINK I figured out the 'trick'...everything has a 'trick'.

Thanks for the direction, guys!

So you have to set it to zero position, then hold the trip rod against the rim it rides against, in the valley, then adjust the switches so they keep it against the rim all the way around.

I fiddled with one reel last night and that procedure seemed to work a whole lot better.

Now I think I'm gonna have to revisit several reels to get them adjusted with more throw to that trip rod...

#21 8 years ago

Normally there are scant few switches that need adjustment on an EM game......unless someone has misadjusted them.

I would confirm at least one reel where the reel is functioning properly and the switches are set up properly and follow that as your guide.

It can be confusing. I spent a couple of hours getting three reels right on a Big Brave a couple of weeks ago. It shouldn't have taken that long but I still ended up confirming the adjustments I was making kept it in line with a working reel.

Good luck.

#22 8 years ago

When I started, all 16 reels would stop anywhere they pleased to complete reset. All of them were opening all 3 (or 2) of the switches several times in a revolution, mostly because the trip rod wasn't riding that rim properly. Now I'm down to 2 or 3 reels passing reset not on zero. But I have a sinking feeling I'll have to revisit all the reels to make sure the game is dependable.

It is still stuck in the reset sequence, cycling indefinitely until I force the control & feature bank to reset. This game is taking way to long to get running.

#23 8 years ago

" I Duddits!!"

#24 8 years ago

I believe the factory position for 455 lamps are behind the king rock name, not the lady's rack! LOL.

#25 8 years ago

It actually has blinkers behind all the characters...the one behind the singer just happens to be the only one left that actually blinks!

#26 8 years ago

The 455's should be behind the name "King Rock" only. They only flash in "attract" mode when there is no game started. Once a game starts the flashers are disabled so as not to distract the player(?).

...........Though the rack flasher is a nice touch. May add that to my 2-player King Kool.

King rock / Kool is a lot more fun than it looks.

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