The reel issue on my Fish Tales continues to baffle me.

Basically balls can enter the "Caster's Club" are normal. They travel down the ramp and into the reel. The reel rotates, and the display indicates "BALL 1 LOCKED".

But after a second or two, the reel spits out the ball back onto the playfield. If you lock another ball, you get the same result. Each time the machine displays, "BALL 1 LOCKED".

With this problem, it's impossible to enter multi-ball mode.

I've performed the "Reel Test", and everything looks normal. I'm baffled about what to check next, or how to troubleshoot the problem.

Can someone dumb this down for me, and give me a step by step on what to look for? Anyone seen this problem before on a Fish Tales?

Signed,

Desperate in Birmingham
(Les & Abby Rayburn)

First of all, thanks so much for the help.

Here is what I've discovered. We changed all rubbers about six months ago, including the reel belt. So while that may be the problem, I doubt it.

We cleaned the opots, and performed the "reel test", which says that the optos are fine.

Switch 35 "Reel Entry" at the end of the long ramp is NOT working. I replaced it, along with the diode with a new one frm Marco Specialities. It's still not working. When I do a single switch test, it does not register a change of state when a ball is passed through the tunnel ramp into the reel.

When I look a ball into the reel, the DMD displays "BALL 1 Locked", the reel rotates to the rear, dumps the ball into the catapult, which shoots it up the long ramp, returning it onto the playfield.

If you continue to play, and lock another ball, it too registers as "Ball 1 Locked".

I'm stumped. Any ideas on how to proceed?

Checked all three trough switches, and they're functioning normally in "switch edges" test.

I'll get a diode and do the jumper test on the CPU, but it will likely be Friday before I can get to it. Crazy week at work--anticipating 16 hour days all week.

Again, my thanks for all the help. I could never get one of these machines repaired with the support given my everyone online.

Finally got home from the trip, and have been able to do some troubleshooting. Checked the wiring on Switch 35, and verified that it's correct. Green wire goes to the anode side of the diode.

Checked the switch with a VOM, and it's normally closed, but opens when the switch is pushed. The wire routes under the playfield to a small molex connector. Checked the switch again at this point...Switch 35 is again normally closed but opens when switch is pushed.

However, the switch still fails to register in Switch Test. I noticed when I was reconnecting the molex connector that the switch would register momentarily. I suspected a loose wire, or poor connector, but that isn't the case. I've jiggled all the wires around the connector, and when fully seated, I can't seem to obtain even a momentary switch registration...only when I'm first joining the two parts of the connector.

The switch is #5647-12693-17. Looking at the switch matrix, it looks like it connects to the CPU Board at J206 pin 2 and J209 Pin 5. Someone suggested testing it with a diode jumper at the CPU? But I'm not exactly sure how to do that.

Really annoying problem, as I'm sure it's something really simple. And that I'm an idiot. Any advice on how to proceed now? Thanks again...much appreciated.

Les Rayburn
Birmingham, AL

Additional information. When I perform the "Single Switch" test for Switch 35, with the molex connector under the playfield seated, the switch reads CLOSED. But when I disconnect the molex connector, it reads "OPEN".

Can I test using a diode on the female (CPU Board side) of that connector?

Update.

My basic electricity and electronics class from High School is starting to come back to me.

I realized that the diode was simply a "one way switch". I disconnected the molex connector under the playfield again, and inserted a diode into the female side. Sure enough, the switch would register open or closed depending on which way I inserted the diode.

I checked the photos of the switch prior to the repair, but no, I had everything wired correctly. Green wire to the anode side of the diode.

Figuring I had nothing to lose, I unsoldered the wires on the switch and reversed them. White wire to the anode side. Quick switch test, and yep, the switch now registers when pressed.

Did a game play test. Started a game, and locked a ball. Ball lock, displays "Ball 1 Locked", then the reel rotates and dumps that ball into the catapult and back onto the playfield. (Original symptoms before the repair)

Still can't lock a 2nd ball or enter multi-ball. I'm completely stumped now.

Any ideas?

Tried looking at the problem from the other end, as suggested. Trough switches, #16, #17, and #18 all functioning normally both in switch test mode, and during game play.

Also replaced the reel belt with the OEM "clear" belt (I had a regular playfield rubber on mine). No joy there either.

Out of desperation, I ordered a new Opto-Board from Marco Specialties last night.
It should arrive tomorrow on Fedex.

I'm stumped...any other ideas?

Thanks for all the help in solving this mystery gang!

Norso--I'm not quite sure how to do what you suggest. Which test displays the switch matrix diagnostic screen? Also, the habitrail is closed...so inserting a ball isn't simple. You have to feed it into the caster's club and then wait for the catapult to fire--the problem is that the catapult doesn't work in most test modes.

Thanks to your suggestions, I feel like we're closing in on the problem.

Since I'm waiting on the opto board to arrive, I decided to hone in on Switch #35 "Reel Entry" at the end of the habitrail. I wondered if it might be a mechanical adjustment of the switch arm.

To test the theory, I started the game. And inserted a ball into the "Caster's Club" catapult. After it passed down the habitrail and into the reel, I quickly hit switch #35 manually.

That worked. A ball instantly was inserted into the shooters lane, and the game continued. When I tried this with a second ball, it too locked, and finally after three, the game entered multiball just as it should.

Aha! (I thought)...just a simple switch arm adjustment. Two hours and several tries later, I determined that isn't the issue either. The ball is clearly activating the switch, but that doesn't do it. No amount of adjustment seems to have the ball activate the switch.

Baffling...but progress.

Other thoughts now?

Sorry I was unclear.

I can manually activate the switch, but no amount of adjustment seems to make the ball activate the switch.

Switch is brand-new from Marco Specialty. In fact, I ordered three of them--and I've tried two. Same result on both.

I can't remember how the machine worked normally, but I notice now that when I start the game (AC power on)...the game goes through a start up routine of sorts. The reel advances one place at a time, four separate times, then it revolves one complete revolution...after that, pushing the start button activates the game just fine.

If you hit "start" during the start up routine, you get a message on the DMD that says "Please Wait". Is this normal?

Good Lord, this machine is driving me batty!

I'm wondering about what Norso suggested, I.E. "Phantom Switches" due to a bad diode somewhere.

If you'll recall, I started off my replacing the switch with a new one. I was very careful to mark where the white and green wires went to. I even too photographs before starting to work--just to be sure I didn't screw them up.

But the switch still read "CLOSED" and would not register an activation when pressed manually. This continued until I swapped the green and white wires.

This has me wondering if there is a phantom switch elsewhere, and the wire swap just created a work around?

Can someone who owns a FT check that switch and verify that the green wire goes on the anode side of the diode? (The side with the stripe or bar)

That's how mine was originally.

Assuming Norso is right--how the hell do I go about tracking down that bad diode?

Again, my thanks. Losing my mind...

I do hear a faint click when we manipulate the switch manually.

Switch #35 on our machine connects directly to a molex connector underneath the playfield. We've checked continuity all the way to the MPU.

Looking at your photo, it appears that the green wire goes to the anode side of the diode.

First of all, I'm not "ignoring" anyone's advice. I'm truly grateful for all the replies. I know it takes time to study schematics, scan photographs, and think about someone else's problems. We all have machines of our own that need tending...so it's truly one of the best parts of the hobby when people share their knowledge.

Here's what I managed to accomplish in the hour I had available tonight:

1.) Installed the new Opto-Board. Didn't help at all...but at least I've got the upgrade, right?

2.) Blocked both sides of the habitrail rails after getting a ball inside. Put the machine in switch edge test and rolled the ball to see if it would activate Switch #35. It did on every attempt.

No time for more tests beyond that.

Also to avoid confusion. Originally, my switch was wired with green to anode side of the diode. When I replaced the switch with a new one (and new diode) I installed the same way. Switch would not activate with a ball or manually. Only after I reversed the wiring did the switch begin to register.

No idea why that would be.

My next steps are as follows:

1.) Reverse the wiring back to original and test again.

2.) Perform the test recommended above with my VOM by Minnesota13.

Again, my thanks. I know it's frustrating to watch an idiot struggle. Believe me, I'm trying my best to follow all the advice given. Appreciate your patience.

The last two suggestions by Minnesota 13 and Nosro were helpful. And the video posted was great. I learned a lot from it. Unfortunately, I'm not one bit closer to finding the problem.

I re-wired the switch correctly with the green wire to the anode side (bar on the diode). The original symptoms returned. The switch reads as " CLOSED in switch test mode, and will not register when manipulated with the ball or manually.

Anyone know of a solid technician in the Birmingham, AL area? I think this one is out of my league.

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic is a GOD AMONG MEN!!!

Like Scobby and the gang, he managed to solve the mystery of my Fish Tales reel entry switching problem. He solved the problem for me tonight on rec.games.pinball.

I had no idea that the newer variety of micro-switches differed from the originals in any way. My mistake was in being so worried about wiring the switch exactly like the old one that I never bothered to look at the picture on the outside of the new switch packaging from Marco!

Tony carefully read my many posts, and figured out that I had wired the green wire to the outside terminal of the new micro switch, when it needed to be wired to the middle terminal instead.

While I feel like a complete idiot, I'm too happy that the game is finally working to care. Tony I owe you big time!!! Thank you so much! And thanks to everyone else who suffered through watching a newbie struggle and tried so hard to help. That's what makes this hobby great.

Les Rayburn
Birmingham, AL