(Topic ID: 315810)

Tech: Fathom blowing 1 amp playfield fuse

By Mudflaps

1 year ago


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  • 41 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 1 year ago

Problem: Fathom blows the 1 amp slow blow beneath the playfield as soon as the game is powered on. Flippers work, no other coils work.

I checked the ohm level of each non-flipper coil. Each visually looks good and reads around 11 ohms. The larger drop target coils read around 25.

I have an Alltek solenoid driver board. Visually looks good, LEDs cycle normally. All transistors checked good.

I have not pulled and traced the wires from the fuse holder, and that would be pretty invasive and a last resort.

Anything I missed? Each coil has a molex, so I was thinking to disconnect all the coils, power the game and connect each coil individually to pinpoint the problem child.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#2 1 year ago

Either a bad drive transistor (would be a tip 102/122 if original board) or a bad diode on one of your coils in the PF. Or both.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from athens95:

Either a bad drive transistor (would be a tip 102/122 if original board) or a bad diode on one of your coils in the PF. Or both.

Would a bad diode still register 11 ohms during a test? I touched each lead of the DMM to the lugs with normal readings.

#4 1 year ago

If you have 11 ohms across both lugs of a coil that's probably not it.

Check the knocker, I think this one is tied into the same circuit.

Also, check all the surface mounted transistors on the driver board. None of these legs should be shorted. If there is one shorted this is the problem.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from athens95:

If you have 11 ohms across both lugs of a coil that's probably not it.
Check the knocker, I think this one is tied into the same circuit.
Also, check all the surface mounted transistors on the driver board. None of these legs should be shorted. If there is one shorted this is the problem.

Thanks. Yeah, each transistor on the Alltek board checks good.

So I reinstalled the fuse and made sure each coil was disconnected. Game booted, no blown fuse. I’ll check each coil one at a time until it blows, then I should have the culprit. Super weird, though, because each coil tested good. Hmmm.

#6 1 year ago

It was one of the rear kickout coils, AT-27-1300. As soon as those were plugged in, the fuse blew. When every other coil is plugged in except those, the game plays fine. Not sure which, but I’ll replace both.

I did a playfield swap last year and molexed the coils, and I’m glad I did. It certainly made troubleshooting much easier. I’m still not sure why the coil tested good with 11 ohms, but oh well.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

I did a playfield swap last year and molexed the coils, and I’m glad I did. It certainly made troubleshooting much easier. I’m still not sure why the coil tested good with 11 ohms, but oh well.

If the diode on the coil is open circuit/disconnected you will still read 11 ohms across the coil. But you have then lost the protection mechanism to prevent the driver transistor on the solenoid driver board from blowing/shorting.

#8 1 year ago

I would check to make sure nothing is shorting out under playfield. Wire touching something it's not supposed to touch???

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

If the diode on the coil is open circuit/disconnected you will still read 11 ohms across the coil. But you have then lost the protection mechanism to prevent the driver transistor on the solenoid driver board from blowing/shorting.

Thanks, I didn’t know that.

If I hadn’t molexed the coils, how could I check that each coil had a good diode?

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

If I hadn’t molexed the coils, how could I check that each coil had a good diode?

Unfortunately the only way is to at minimum unsolder one of the diode legs. The coil in parallel with the diode will always be the lower resistance path for your meter so you need to disconnect the diode from the coil in order to test the diode.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Unfortunately the only way is to at minimum unsolder one of the diode legs. The coil in parallel with the diode will always be the lower resistance path for your meter so you need to disconnect the diode from the coil in order to test the diode.

Good Lord! That’s a serious PSA to molex your coils.

Thanks for the input everyone. New coils on the way. I’ll update the thread once I install.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

New coils on the way.

Why are you buying a new coil? Is it melted?

-1
#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Why are you buying a new coil? Is it melted?

Nope, but my preference is to just install new coils and diodes. The AT-27-1300 coil has two diodes, and I’ve lived the nightmare of a coil with an incorrectly positioned diode.

It’s easier for me to just do a replacement on two 40 year old coils and diodes vs. new diodes on an old coil. Might be unnecessary, but I’ll feel better about it.

#14 1 year ago

But you likely have a shorted driver transistor on the solenoid driver board that's causing the coil to lockon at power-up and blow the fuse.
Diodes on the coil are fairly easily replaceable. Coils don't wear out.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

But you likely have a shorted driver transistor on the solenoid driver board that's causing the coil to lockon at power-up and blow the fuse.
Diodes on the coil are fairly easily replaceable. Coils don't wear out.

Hmm. I have an Alltek SDB. Good lights, nothing visually wrong (smoked transistor). I checked each transistor with my DMM, no issues.

If each transistor checks good with the DMM (one lead ground, one lead on the leg) and the board cycles normally, am I missing something on the SDB?

#16 1 year ago

Driver transistor Q12 controls the top saucer coil (presuming this is the coil in question).
Q12 also controls the 1st blue inline drop target release via the solenoid expander board. When you go to lamp test mode, does that 1st blue inline drop target release coil activate every time the feature lamps flash on?

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Driver transistor Q12 controls the top saucer coil (presuming this is the coil in question).
Q12 also controls the 1st blue inline drop target release via the solenoid expander board. When you go to lamp test mode, does that 1st blue inline drop target release coil activate every time the feature lamps flash on?

I’ll double check when I get home. When the game boots with a good 1 amp fuse, the green/blue inline drops function normally.

I ran through some tests before I disconnected the coils, and I didn’t notice any odd behavior during the lamp test.

Thanks again for the assistance! I don’t think it’s the SDB or solenoid expander, but I could be wrong.

#18 1 year ago

Well you have something applying power to the coil on power-up. This is not caused by the coil itself.

#19 1 year ago

Don't forget that your Alltek SDB has visual indicators of each transistor and coil. If you had a bad coil or transistor the Alltek board would indicate and show that issue with a red LED. These are not features of the original SDB.

#20 1 year ago

Make sure all your coils are wired correctly. Yellow wire to banded side of diode.

If you have to, unsolder all the coils and reconnect one by one.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Driver transistor Q12 controls the top saucer coil (presuming this is the coil in question).
Q12 also controls the 1st blue inline drop target release via the solenoid expander board. When you go to lamp test mode, does that 1st blue inline drop target release coil activate every time the feature lamps flash on?

New coils installed on the top and side eject.

With the top eject coil connected, the 1 amp fuse blows. No issues with the game when that coil is disconnected. The side eject coil works fine.

Q12 on the SDB tests normally with the DMM (ground lead on metal, positive lead on the transistor leg).

Based on my troubleshooting, I believe I have good a good coil, good diodes and a good board.

At this point, should I still be chasing a board issue, or is it more likely that one of the top eject coil wires may be frayed or touching something?
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#22 1 year ago

That's what I'd be checking....oh wait I said that in a earlier post.

Just messing with you. But yes I would spend a lot of time looking to see if any wire or anything is touching something it shouldn't.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from timab2000:

That's what I'd be checking....oh wait I said that in a earlier post.
Just messing with you. But yes I would spend a lot of time looking to see if any wire or anything is touching something it shouldn't.

Ha, no I appreciate it and I definitely read everyone’s suggestions. Tracing wires is not high on my want-to-do list, but I wanted to rule everything else out first.

Looks like I’ll need my flashlight and a free afternoon.

#24 1 year ago

Please do as suggested in post #16 and report back.

Post some pics of the new top saucer coil wiring/connections. Also a pic showing the wire colors on the SDB J5 connector.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Please do as suggested in post #16 and report back.
Post some pics of the new top saucer coil wiring/connections. Also a pic showing the wire colors on the SDB J5 connector.

Lamp test does not trigger any coil response.

Top saucer coil:
4FCDE5CF-EA7E-46E9-B62D-F93C6B4DD39E (resized).jpeg4FCDE5CF-EA7E-46E9-B62D-F93C6B4DD39E (resized).jpeg
Right saucer coil:
83191252-D6AA-4454-882B-762665138D47 (resized).jpeg83191252-D6AA-4454-882B-762665138D47 (resized).jpeg
J5 on the SDB:
ABAFAC58-F105-4C8E-8A5A-8A171088733D (resized).jpegABAFAC58-F105-4C8E-8A5A-8A171088733D (resized).jpeg

Top inline drop target coils. The drop 1 coil *may* be suspect as the jumper wire between the first and second coil is exposed and may have grounded. Could this be a culprit?image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#26 1 year ago

Again, with the top saucer coil disconnected, the game operates perfectly. Once the coil is connected, the 1 amp fuse blows after about 3 seconds.

And I really appreciate everyone’s help.

#27 1 year ago

My guess is the plug in is not wired correctly. Try unplugging it and see what happens.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from timab2000:

My guess is the plug in is not wired correctly. Try unplugging it and see what happens.

The game has been rock solid for a year, so I suspect that’s not the case. Hopefully it’s something silly. Anyway, I’ll trace wires in the next few days.

#29 1 year ago

I read why you replaced the coils, still i may have missed something, but was there a problem prior to replacing the coils?
You replaced the coils as part of the playfield swap?
Maybe try the original coil. You have 2 to check/choose from?

it looks wired correctly, can you post a pic of the diode/s attached please?

that 'jumper' has a sheathing on it to stop any shorting.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

read why you replaced the coils, still i may have missed something, but was there a problem prior to replacing the coils?

I did a playfield swap last year. Original coils. No problems for about a year, now I’m getting the 1 amp fuse issue. Same issue after replacing both coils.

Quoted from Rikoshay:

that 'jumper' has a sheathing on it to stop any shorting.

The sheathing only covered about 2/3 of the jumper. It’s possible it shifted over time and caused a short, but I can’t be certain. If the first drop target is tied to the back saucer coil, I thought they may be related.

#31 1 year ago

you said that the fuse blows "as soon as" the game is powered on, so before the game runs through it's start up of powering coils?

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

The game has been rock solid for a year, so I suspect that’s not the case. Hopefully it’s something silly. Anyway, I’ll trace wires in the next few days.

Did you work on anything in the game right before this problem started happening?

Quoted from Mudflaps:

Again, with the top saucer coil disconnected, the game operates perfectly.

With the game OFF and the top saucer coil plugged in, set your multi-meter on resistance mode - if your meter isn't auto-ranging put it on the 200 ohm scale.

How much resistance do you measure between the two wired coil lugs in circuit?
How much resistance do you measure between the grey-red wire lug on the coil and cabinet ground?
How much resistance do you measure between the brown wire lug on the coil and cabinet ground?

Can you post pictures showing the diode orientation on that coil and also a pic showing the connector you added?

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Did you work on anything in the game right before this problem started happening?

With the game OFF and the top saucer coil plugged in, set your multi-meter on resistance mode - if your meter isn't auto-ranging put it on the 200 ohm scale.
How much resistance do you measure between the two wired coil lugs in circuit?
How much resistance do you measure between the grey-red wire lug on the coil and cabinet ground?
How much resistance do you measure between the brown wire lug on the coil and cabinet ground?
Can you post pictures showing the diode orientation on that coil and also a pic showing the connector you added?

I did not work on anything prior to the game having this issue. The game knew I was having a lot of people over for our kid’s graduation party and decided to die.

I was reading ~ 11 ohms between the two wired coil lugs during initial troubleshooting. I did not test them individually between the lug and ground, but I’ll do that and report back.

The diode polarity is correct on the old and new coils, but I’ll post pics.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

you said that the fuse blows "as soon as" the game is powered on, so before the game runs through it's start up of powering coils?

Yes. If the back coil is plugged in, the game hums, and the fuse blows. The coils do not their thing.

If the back coil is disconnected, the game powers on normally. The coils do their thing.

#35 1 year ago

DMM set to 2K ohms. Readings were too high for 200 ohms.

Top eject coil (black lead on ground):
Grey-red wire = 610
Orange wire = 630
Open lug = 640

Lower eject coil (black lead on ground):
Black-yellow wire = no reading
Grey-red wire = 610
Open lug = no reading

Resistance between lugs is ~13 ohms for both coils.

Other non-flipper coils were between 610-620.

Original coils I removed:image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

Top eject coil:
744C12F5-D23F-4625-ADFC-9309EF082738 (resized).jpeg744C12F5-D23F-4625-ADFC-9309EF082738 (resized).jpeg

Right eject coil:
406B2ED9-EF72-4795-8D94-083C570E122F (resized).jpeg406B2ED9-EF72-4795-8D94-083C570E122F (resized).jpeg

Molex connection on top coil (there is some blue overspray on the wires from the factory, but the wires are correct):
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Orange wire = 630

This wire looks like brown to me but anyway. You're getting 630 ohms on it compared to the respective black-yellow wire on the right saucer giving no reading. So that orange or brown wire whatever color it is, is shorted somewhere.
Disconnect the top saucer coil from your plug and measure the orange/brown wire pins on each side of the plug to see where the 630 ohms is coming from. Follow it upstream. Stick with the black meter lead on ground for consistency.

#37 1 year ago

Sorry, brown wire.

On the SDB, I’m getting no reading on each of the connections *except* Q12. This connection is reading 625. Board issue?

Red lead on Q12:
D2B4A747-F65A-431C-B0E2-05E6ADEDE022 (resized).jpegD2B4A747-F65A-431C-B0E2-05E6ADEDE022 (resized).jpeg

Red lead on other connections:
AFFA5AF9-44D5-4D9F-9821-36EA1AD5B72D (resized).jpegAFFA5AF9-44D5-4D9F-9821-36EA1AD5B72D (resized).jpeg

Edit: I just talked to Dave at Alltek. Sounds like it’s indeed a board issue. I’m curious why the transistor didn’t blow.

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

On the SDB, I’m getting no reading on each of the connections *except* Q12. This connection is reading 625. Board issue?

Yes we were trying to get at this earlier that Q12 could be suspect but you said it tested normal.
What happens if you swap the meter leads around and compare to another connection?

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Yes we were trying to get at this earlier that Q12 could be suspect but you said it tested normal.

I was referring to the transistor, so I should have been more specific. The Q12 transistor was/is reading normal. I did not test the connector until today.

If you couldn’t already tell, I’m not the most proficient electrician. I’m having a bad day when I have to crack out the DMM. I learn each time, though.

Anyway, I already pulled the board and will send it back to Dave. I appreciate your help with pinpointing my issue. Thanks very much!

#40 1 year ago

To close the loop, it was indeed the SDB. I swapped a working SDB in the game and it operates normally. The faulty SDB is on the way back to Alltek for repair. Nothing burned or smoked on the board, it still looks brand new. Rather than check just the transistor, I should have also checked the pin connector.

Thanks everyone for chiming in and being patient.

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Rather than check just the transistor, I should have also checked the pin connector.

The pin connector goes directly to the upper tab (middle leg) of the transistor. Ground goes directly to the bottom right leg of the transistor. So you should have seen the bad reading when testing the transistor. Anyway something went awry.
Glad you ultimately got it sorted out.

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