This one has me going in circles, so it's time to ask for advice.

The overall problem is that the game will play a two player , 5 ball, game perfectly. All the time.

It will not do the same for a one player game. At random points during a one player game the RESET CAR #2 relay is tripped (flicked) from it's connection at F rivet on the Control Motor disc. This in turn sets off all the Reset and Start relays (through P rivet on the Control Motor disc), and both cars go to the starting line as if a new game has begun. But a new game has not been started, the game is still where it was and can be continued.
So the game is not really resetting.

If I disconnect only the wire to the P rivet on the control motor the F rivet still sends a bad signal to the RESET CAR #2 relay, but this time the Start and Reset relays do not fire (no P rivet connection).
If I disconnect the F rivet wire at the control motor disc (P is connected) everything plays fine on a 1 player game, no problems.

So it seems that the F rivet gets the original bad signal setting off the RESET CAR#2 relay which then travels through to the P rivet setting off the other Reset and Start relays. A backwards signal.

It is not always on the same ball # so I can't tie it to the the ball count stepper.

Then again, occasionally it WILL play a one player game without an episode, but it is few and far between.

I bought a schematic for the RaceWay but it doesn't match my game! I have two extra relays on the game that are not on the schematic:
#1 GAME OVER and #2 GAME OVER relays.

And I have a TILT relay on the game but none on the schematic. There is a GAME OVER relay on the schematic, is that the TILT?

On IPDB the Midway Champ pictures show the exact relay setup I have. Maybe I need to get a Champ game schematic?

Does anyone have a schematic of either the Champ or the Race Way that shows the #1 and #2 GAME OVER relays? If I had a scan of that area it might help me figure this out.

Or any suggestions on the problem. I have done all the usual checks for contact continuity/cleanliness, solder to tabs condition, etc.

Here is a video (Watch the START and RESET relays do a flick, this makes the two cars reset in the middle of a game). I think the RESET relay is the first one to fire, hard to tell.

Thanks.
Alan

Thanks for the photos showing your game setup. Not the same as my Race Way at all. I do have the two added game over relays and the Game Over relay is renamed Tilt Relay with an extra switch stack put on.

I think I either have a really early game or a really late game date wise. Since Champ and Flying Turns do have the two Game Over relays and Tilt relay like my game maybe I have a transition game. Either way I think I'm screwed on finding a correct schematic. Maybe the Champ schematic is closer.

Thanks
Alan

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Oddly enough I took off a couple of cable clamps the other night for that reason. It hasn't fixed it.
It only acts up on a single player game, it always plays 2 player games perfectly. So there is some redirecting of the circuit through the 2nd Coin Relay when the game is in 2 player mode, but without a correct schematic I can't trace it.

I know it is an intermittent problem, I can play a 1 player game for two or three times before it acts up, then it acts up a lot.

I discovered that it is the Start Relay that is the beginning of the problem. It kicks off the other problem relay events.

I also think that the Start Relay is getting the bad signal through the control motor "P" contacts somehow. The problem always happens when the control motor is in the same position while rotating past the "P" contacts and those are connected to the Start Relay and the Car Reset Relays.

But I don't think the Control Motor contacts are the problem, they are just transferring a signal through.

Not having a correct Schematic is becoming a problem. My game appears to not be a typical Race Way or a Champ for the relay layout, maybe I am "lucky" enough to have found some rare prototype game version. There was one other playfield oddity on my game that made me think the same thing.

I'll have to resort to physically tracing the signal wire from the Start Relay all throughout the game to see where it connects.

Alan

There might be two differences:

1) Spike nails inbetween the targets
2) Plastic V diverter to change ball direction at launch

I thought the spikes were on all games but it doesn't look like it. They were installed when the game was assembled from the way the paper label is neatly pierced without pulling on the staples. Looks like the label was installed after the spikes.

The V diverter I have never seen before and it does appear to be original. The glue is the old "horse" glue that turns dark brown, it is installed with the same flat nails as lane guides, it is professionally manufactured, and the playfield looks like it has always had it in place.
There are more holes above it that I think may have been a first try for location. Maybe they were experimenting with deflecting the ball at launch before they devised the moving turret launch.

Alan

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I'm going to make a new topic with better focus on the exact problem I have with this game.

Nobody has entered any s/n info yet.
I can't find any number on my game except a stamped 816 on the lockdown bar.

Is there a s/n on your game?

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