(Topic ID: 56811)

TECH--CFTBL: Game Just Went "Dead"/But Not A Traditional Reset


By NM

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by NM
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

Had just lit all four F-I-L-M letters and both green lights were flashing to start multi-ball if I hit one of them.

Ball was sitting in the lane waiting to be plunged.

Plunged the ball to the top rollovers; ball hit one of them (#2 IIRC), and then the game just went completely dead...don't think I even hit a single flip let alone both simultaneously (maybe I hit one to change the lamps, not sure).

Game never reset in the classic sense.

Game was just completely dark/like when you first turn the game on in those first few seconds before the DMD shows anything (just heard that ticking sound out of the speakers like the game was about to boot up).

But then nothing, I mean nothing (but ticking)--so after about 15 seconds, just turned the game off and on again and all was as normal.

Thoughts on what's going on?

TIA.

#2 6 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Thoughts on what's going on?

You may never know. Could have been a one time thing.

If it starts doing it more, then you have an issue.

LTG : )

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

You may never know. Could have been a one time thing.

If it starts doing it more, then you have an issue.

LTG : )

IIRC Lloyd, this is now the 2nd time it has happened (last time just a few games ago).

Any thoughts on what to check/where to start most welcomed.

Thanks.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Any thoughts on what to check/where to start most welcomed.

Next time it is dead, quick check the 5 volt test point on the power driver board. That may help on where to go next.

LTG : )

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Next time it is dead, quick check the 5 volt test point on the power driver board. That may help on where to go next.

LTG : )

Will do; thanks.

#6 6 years ago

When you say completely dark, were the GI lights out too, or just the lamp controlled inserts?

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

When you say completely dark, were the GI lights out too, or just the lamp controlled inserts?

Everything was off and mirroring exactly what happens when the game is turned on--GI, inserts, all backbox bulbs, and DMD: all completely dark.

DMD never posted a single dot/never went to the TESTING screen as it normally would...all I heard was the ticking through the speakers...after about 15 seconds of waiting for something to happen, turned the game off/on and everything was back to "normal".

In short, the game as exactly like what you'd experience when turning on any WPC-Fliptronics game: totally dark (but with any 12-volt "always-on" mods like LED strips on*, speakers ticking--only difference as mentioned my DMD stayed dark and never went to the TESTING message next as it should).

* This was the only item that was lit on my CFTBL during the whole process: namely, a speaker panel tail light mod--but this is no recent mod; it's been on the game for years--it's always on at boot up (just like a 12V LED strip).

No recent work performed on the game that could have caused a short or something else (no soldering, no new switches, etc.); game has been bullet-proof for years: only routine maintenance performed (Novus, wax, rubbers, etc.).

Thanks.

#8 6 years ago

Sounds like the 5V Bridge and Cap for sure. I'd looking into replacing both of them.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Next time it is dead, quick check the 5 volt test point on the power driver board. That may help on where to go next.

LTG : )

Quoted from DeathHimself:

Sounds like the 5V Bridge and Cap for sure. I'd looking into replacing both of them.

I believe you guys are onto something.

Decided to check the 5V TP on the power driver board in attract mode before any reset and found it to be 4.77V--well below Clay's recommended 4.92V in his guides.

Also checked the CPU at the game ROM: found pin 32 to be 4.74 (for what that's worth).

Went further in the guides and did the check of the power driver board's IDCs at J101, J114, and the CPU's IDC at J210:

No change in voltage was observed by re-seating and subsequently re-checking with the meter independently IDC by IDC.

So guessing I have either a problem at BR2 and the related capacitor or the voltage regulator failing at Q1 LM323K?

That's as far as I've gone in the guides.

Forgo all the other tests and go directly to those two tests now I'm guessing?

BTW, loaded up the F-I-L-M letters and got the green inserts flashing again, engaged the game in multi-ball and held both flippers for 10 seconds and no reset...persisted and pressed both flips simultaneously intermittently and finally got a traditional reset: DMD went to the TESTING screen and the game reset.

Line voltage is also ruled out: 119.1V at my outlet.

12V TP reading is also fine at 11.92V.

Thanks in advance.

#10 6 years ago

Just an interim update, projected resolution, and shout out for Clive of the Coin-Op Cauldron (and all the responders in this thread).

Apprised Clive of the info in this thread by email--and at +4.77 volts for the +5 volt rail, that's obviously way too low.

The Power Driver Board is patently in need repair and macro refurbishment--and the best course of action at this juncture to simply go ahead and send it in for his expert work.

Clive charges only $78 + shipping to go through an entire Power Driver Board professionally, and my conclusion is for the few extra bucks vs. doing it myself, I'd much rather have him soldering the delicate plate through holes--and checking out the entire board from stem to stern.

He's available here when anyone else is facing a similar dilemma:

http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/Index.html

Thanks again to all responders.

#11 6 years ago

Thanks for the update...I had been following this...if you don't mind, let us know if this is the cure...

#12 6 years ago

Clive does good work. I was very happy with what he did on my FH PDB.

Ditto on letting us know what the problem was/is that he finds.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Also checked the CPU at the game ROM: found pin 32 to be 4.74 (for what that's worth).

Bingo, I'm not a 100% but 110% sure there is your issue. The voltage to the cpu is very fussy, it has to remain at the 5v mark, once dipping below due to weaken caps, bridges etc... the cpu end reacts just as if you hit reset button on your pc. This is reveals itself in instances like when you start hitting things such as two flippers at the same time, holding the flippers etc. They can also add an extra little cap inline that makes the voltage slightly higher something like 5.20v, that is just enough to give an extra cushion incase of a drop but not high enough to blow components. Clive does great work, so does Chris Hibler here on the forums as well. CFTBL is a great game, enjoy.

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

...if you don't mind, let us know if this is the cure...

Quoted from dmacy:

Ditto on letting us know what the problem was/is that he finds.

Sure will.

FedExing it today, but Clive's current backlog is running at 7 weeks--so back at y'all in September.

#15 6 years ago

Do you have something to swap it with?

#16 6 years ago

Good call Ted....

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Do you have something to swap it with?

Yes; I was debating whether to pull one out of one of my other games, but Clive & I concluded that step is unnecessary based on what I've found and ruled out thus far.

1. Wall socket voltage: ruled out.
2. All the key board IDC connectors have been ruled out: J101, J114, J210, J102.
3. The three large transformer connectors have been ruled out.
4. The DMD has been ruled out.
5. Power driver board to CPU ribbon cable ruled out.
6. ASIC ruled out.
7. Flipper coil diodes ruled out.

Most telling, at +4.77 volts for the +5 volt rail, that's simply way too low and therefore the power driver board is in need of repair (because the 5V TP has to be at +4.92V at a minimum or the Watchdog circuit on the CPU will be triggered...mine's at +4.77V).

The power driver board probably needs a new LM323, BR2, some new header pins, and a bunch of solder reflowed; who knows what else. And for just $78 bucks for a pro refurb, I'd much rather spend my time elsewhere.

Guess I need to start stocking repaired PCBs to avoid downtime though.

Who am I kiddin', 7 weeks without one pin won't kill me--probably have over 7 months of work just to get caught up.

#18 6 years ago

20 pins! I'd LIKE to have your problems!

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

20 pins! I'd LIKE to have your problems!

Thank you Ted; but be careful what you wish for...

It morphed into a part-time job; no pay.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Thank you Ted; but be careful what you wish for...

True!!

1 month later
#21 6 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Thanks for the update...I had been following this...if you don't mind, let us know if this is the cure...

Epilogue: complete refurb of the Power Driver Board was indeed the cure for the 5V rail being at a pathetic 4.77V.

Clive said the 5 volt rail being this low was a combination of bad capacitors, increased resistance from the connectors, etc.

In short, he worked his magic on the board by replacing numerous components & upgrading others; resets are now history--all is well in the Lagoon.

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