(Topic ID: 123946)

[TECH] Black Hole Flickering Lights

By boogies

9 years ago


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Power Supply.jpg
#1 9 years ago

My BH started having a new problem around 2 wks ago:
All the controlled lamps would flicker while on.
The GI is unaffected with this problem, just the controlled lamps.

The 6v LAMPS Bridge Rectifier to determine that the voltage is spiking there [3.8 low to 6.1 peak]

The Control Board to Driver board is sending/receiving a solid 5v [No spiking].

I don't know where to check next.
Do I need a new Bridge rectifier, or what do I check before it?

Here's an under playfield vid:


And an above playfield vid:

#2 9 years ago

Check your connectors and for loose
Pins on your board

#3 9 years ago

I've reseated all the connectors on the boards in the backbox, without any luck.

#4 9 years ago

I had this exact issue with my Torpedo Alley. It would even cause static to come through the speakers when the playfield lights flickered. The GI lights were fine. I replaced connectors related to power, ground, playfield lights. I even replaced the header pins on the MPU and power supply boards. The problem was still there.

Finally, I traced it back to the connectors on the huge capacitor, right after the bridge rectifier. On mine, this capacitor is so big that it has screws as terminals. I just cut the old connectors off, placed new ones one and screwed them back on. The problem was solved.

Hope this helps.

1 week later
#5 8 years ago

So any. Update?? Did you get the flickering controlled lamp issue fixed?

#6 8 years ago

I've noticed that my 12v increases (by hearing my backbox motor) when flickering stops. Kinda reverse logic, but I notice that the motor gets faster (increased power/RPM) and that lights become solid at same time. I played with the posts on the 6v lamps bridge rectifier last night and noticed that the flickering became less often (~5 to 10% of the time on).

I also checked the F5 fuse (controlled lamps) and it seems fine.
Disconnected - Controlled lamps off
Connected - Controlled lamps on
However - Somehow, there is continuity even when disconnected (Controlled lamps off). This is REALLY confusing, since there can't be continuity, if the power isn't going through, right????

I had the BH on for most of the day, and about 2 hours ago, I heard a noise from the BH. I walked over to check the backbox motor & lights (to check for variations that's been happening) and all the controlled lamps are out #UGH#.
I turned off the power, and now it doesn't boot. GI comes on, and that's it

I'm hoping that something in the power supply died, and now, it'll be easier to diagnose.

#7 8 years ago

I checked the backbox power supply board and the 5v LED is not coming on....

Using TP3 as ground I got the following results:
TP1 = 64v
TP2 = 45.9v
TP4 = 0v - (Completely Missing)
TP5 = 7.75 - (Little Low)

I also checked pin 5 and 6 on power supply board J1.
It didn't have any voltage. It appears that is the output of the 5v, so maybe this board is bad/needs repair or replacement?
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PC-GPS081

#8 8 years ago

Have you done the ground mods for this machine? I thought both black hole and Haunted House had some grounding issues based on original design.

#9 8 years ago

Yes, I believe that was done before me.

There are green wires everywhere
I.E. The heatsink of the Power Supply board has 4 green wires - 1 from each post screw
1 to MPU capacitor
1 to Control board diode
1 to Aux Lamp board Transistor
1 to sound board power (connects on back side of board)

#10 8 years ago

I believe the idea of doing ground mods can be traced back to board connector failures of various kinds, alkaline damage to the CPU board being one of them. I hear all the time that any System 80 games should have the ground mods done at the very least to help prevent various issues but I've seen/have some games that are still running fine without them being performed. I think as long as there are no board connector failures, they probably will keep running too.

Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

Quoted from alexanr1:

I thought both black hole and Haunted House had some grounding issues based on original design.

#11 8 years ago

Test out Q3, it's probably bad.

Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

Quoted from boogies:

It didn't have any voltage. It appears that is the output of the 5v, so maybe this board is bad/needs repair or replacement?

#12 8 years ago

Do you still have the original orange cap by the bridge rectifiers and transformer under the lower pf?

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from blownfuse:

Test out Q3, it's probably bad.
Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

Putting the positive on the (either) screw BASE, and the negative on each lead (collector, emitter)
I get jumping reading ~ 7k on 1 side and ~ 4k on the other side (not sure which is collector / emitter )

If that's the proper way to test, then it's bad, since I should get a reading in one direction only?

Quoted from knockerlover:

Do you still have the original orange cap by the bridge rectifiers and transformer under the lower pf?

Nope, I have newer blue ones

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from blownfuse:

I believe the idea of doing ground mods can be traced back to board connector failures of various kinds, alkaline damage to the CPU board being one of them. I hear all the time that any System 80 games should have the ground mods done at the very least to help prevent various issues but I've seen/have some games that are still running fine without them being performed. I think as long as there are no board connector failures, they probably will keep running too.
Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

Agree. My HH has no ground mods and runs fine. Just thought I would throw it out there.

#15 8 years ago

I would check the 6Vdc bridge rectifier using diode mode on a MM. Check solder connections there as well.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_a_Bridge_Rectifier

After that I would check all connections between there up to the (normally-closed) T-Relay including the relay itself. (i.e. - try jumpering the computer controlled light circuit (black-slate-slate) outside of the relay.

1 month later
#16 8 years ago
Quoted from boogies:

I turned off the power, and now it doesn't boot. GI comes on, and that's it
I'm hoping that something in the power supply died, and now, it'll be easier to diagnose.

Update - After the Power Supply went out, this is what has happened:
Using the PinWiki, I attempting to rebuild the Power Supply. I got the BH to run for about 5 mins, and then "popped" and lost the 5v again.
I decided to get a new Power Supply and go from there.
Was trying to get one of these from GPE: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=100-102
GPE has been out of stock on these, and my impatience got the best of me, so I ordered one of these instead: ebay.com link: itm

MY BH is now booting but now I have a couple new concerns

The Extra Ball playfield light is stuck on - and it NEVER worked before. (#UPDATE EDIT#: Not related - separate issue)
Aux Chase Lamps are not lighting up - and it ALWAYS worked before.

There is no 5v pot for adjusting, but tested at 5.1 without anything plugged in.
The 4 ground mods that were screwed into the 4 separate posts of the heatsinks are now all screwed into 1 post - not sure if this might be the problem

I'm kinda scared to keep it on long enough to determine if the flickering lights will come back after the system is warmed up - I don't want to "pop" the new power supply if there is something else wrong

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#17 8 years ago

Update to Resolved

After unplugging the Aux lamp (backbox chase lights) board, I rechecked voltages and they continued to jump. I noticed that I would get cleaner 5v without aux board. Going back n forth with testing, I turned off, and put aux board back in, lights worked. The flickering started again, chase lights were almost out (Maybe 4 lamps were getting powered). I turned off, unplugged aux board, checked voltages again, and they were pretty damn low. During testing, I even unplugged the 12v backbox motor - it even slowed to a hault at one point

A total of ~ 10 min plugged in time has passed during this trial and error. I'm scared that I'm gonna have something blow out, similar to what had happened with the power supply board.
I remembered that I had purchased 2 bridge rectifiers: 1 for 12v (powering the Power Supply Board) and 1 for the 6v Lamps. I never replaced the 6v Lamps, and knew I should've done this previously (I already replaced the 12v)
Once I replaced the 6v Lamps bridge rectifier, my flickering lights are ELIMINATED!
All lamps (including the first in a set) are working strong and smooth
I plugged in the chase lamps and they are running great, still no flicker lights.

The funny thing is that the bridge rectifiers tested OK, but the 6v lamps was definitely the cause of this problem - I'm just thrilled to have it running smoothly again

#18 8 years ago

Thanks for posting the solution!

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