(Topic ID: 299759)

[TECH] - Baby Pac-Man random reset/crash during gameplay

By Spock

4 months ago


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  • Latest reply 4 months ago by JT-Pinball
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#1 4 months ago

Curious if anyone has had this issue with your Baby Pac-Man.

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Reset/Crash During Gameplay:
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1.During gameplay, game randomly attempts and fails to reset or reboot another words it simply locks up. If it locks up while playing pinball, flippers and solenoids still work. The screen freezes for a second, wipes with colors then ends with sometimes a black screen or a frozen screen. If music was playing at the time, it continues to loop. Game is no longer playable during this time.

2. If player "never goes down to pinball" the game never crashes and plays as normal.

3. If player goes down to pinball at least once and exits, eventually the game will crash while in video mode.

4. If player is playing pinball, game can also crash while playing. However higher chance it will crash after you return to video mode.

5. The game can crash after 10+ aggressive pinball games or just 1 game. Appears to be totally random.

6. Attempted to play dozens of games by letting the auto plunger hit the ball till it lands on a switch. After many games letting the ball drain, the game finally crashed. During this time the only solenoid that fired was the ball plunger kicker in the out hole.

7. Game never resets during attract mode. Only resets during gameplay. As mentioned above, only after player as played pinball at least once.

8. After the crash, I can hold the reset button on the MPU or power cycle the game and get back to playing till another random crash happens.

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What was troubleshooted and already done to machine:
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1. Swapped and tested between two (reproduction MPU & original)

2. Swapped and tested between (reproduction lamp/solenoid driver board and original)

3. Vidiot board has all new chips, roms, 40pins IC etc. As well heat sinks and cabinet fan. Nothing is hot to the touch during game lock ups.

4. I get the correct 10 blinks on Vidiot.

5. I get all correct numbers/values in diagnostics for communication to MPU.

6. Power supply board brand new reproduction

7. No blown fuses

8. Game uses LED's

9. Game uses an LCD screen

10. Tilt switch(s) all disconnected

______________________________________________

Assumptions/Questions:
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1. Since the game only crashes during pinball. We assume solenoid voltage is leaking into lamp voltage or switch matrix and causing a reset?

2. How would I track down a leakage on a solenoid if that is the case? Could a diode on the solenoid do this?

3. The leakage may be coming from the out hole solenoid since game crashed with only that one firing. For testing purposes, would detaching that solenoid completely be an option? Will play with glass off and just physically pick the ball from the out hole and try playing till it crashes. If it never crashes, can assume that is the source of the problem?

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Any help would be greatly appreciated.

#2 4 months ago

Have you re pinned the connectors between the Vidiot and the MPU? Swap the PIA for a known good one in the Vidiot.

#3 4 months ago

That is a good idea. J3 on the MPU looks questionable will replace that one first. By any chance do you know what ones would be best to start with first?

#4 4 months ago

I personally would do them all on the mpu. I would start with J1 and J2 on Vidiot.

#5 4 months ago

Before I get into redoing all the connectors. Just trying to possibly track down the culprit first.

I tested game by isolating one J connector at a time on the solenoid/lamp board (J = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11) (Except J8, because the game cant run without 8 ) and still get the reset issue.

Noticed I am not getting 5v, this could be causing issues.

Solenoid/Lamp Board: P2 [4.98 for +5v] and P1 [15.65 for +12v]

Vidiot Board: P2 [ 4.93 for +5v]

#6 4 months ago

What is this picture of? I don’t think the 5v is your issue. Especially what ever this 5v is

#7 4 months ago

Does the game pass communication test? I don’t have the schematic for the game in front of me. The Vidiot has a separate power supply that powers up from the unregulated 12v. It dose not derive power from the sdb. The sdb provides 5v to the MPU. Are you getting 5v at TP1 and 3 on SDB? Are you getting 5v at tp5 on MPU?

#8 4 months ago

I have two SDB Solenoid/Lamp Driver Boards the original and reproduction. I have tested both. That picture is the reproduction with a built in voltage indicator LED and it reminded me to check voltages since its +5v light was out. My apologies I forgot to note what that image was.

- Game passes all communication test.

- MPU and VIDIOT have correct LED flashes.

- VIDIOT: Reflowed the VR2 regulator power supply that powers the "Reset" section on the Vidiot and it improved the +5v

- VIDIOT: TP2/TP3 went from 4.93v to stable 5.11v after reflow

- VIDIOT: TP5/TP3 = stable 8.34v

- SDB: TP2/TP3 = stable 4.98v

- MPU: TP1/TP3 = fluctuating 4.96v - 4.98v

- MPU: TP5/TP3 = fluctuating 4.96v - 4.98v

So, Both SDB and MPU are [not getting +5v]

#9 4 months ago

Change the pia on the vidiot to a know good one from a working game

#10 4 months ago

I personally don’t think it’s a 5v issue. Is the reg getting hot? I think you already said no.... my experience in resurrecting a few of these games from the totally dead.... connectors connectors connectors. Re pin the females. All of them on the MPU. J1 and j2 on the Vidiot. If the game still isn’t working after you do that and swap the PIA. I’d shit!

#11 4 months ago

Female connectors will be replaced soon. I have a box full of all the connectors I need and cant seem to remember where I put them. May just order the ones I need if I cant find it. Will let you know once I get all the female connectors replaced.

#12 4 months ago

I just rebuild them. Take the old pin push it out and cut it off. Replace the pin slide new pin right back in the hole. I have had the old pins just fall apart or not have a tab on them at all. Unless the connector housing is corroded badly. I also usually just order the longest connectors possible for the size. An exacto knife cuts them to the perfect size every time

#13 4 months ago

It sucks... I just put on some good music and go till my hands want to fall off

#14 4 months ago

4.9v is fine all around.

#15 4 months ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

I just rebuild them. Take the old pin push it out and cut it off. Replace the pin slide new pin right back in the hole. I have had the old pins just fall apart or not have a tab on them at all. Unless the connector housing is corroded badly. I also usually just order the longest connectors possible for the size. An exacto knife cuts them to the perfect size every time

I ordered new female crimp style connectors, the game currently uses the original IDC .100 and .156.

Are you saying its worth the time to snip the ends of the wires clean and just pinch them back in place in the same old female IDC connector? As for the males, I will save that for last. My luck all the pads will fall off when de-soldering the male pins.

#16 4 months ago
Quoted from jj44114:

4.9v is fine all around.

This guy know wtf he is talking about...

#17 4 months ago

Oh no, I rebuild the Molex connectors... The IDC ones are total junk. You need to get new Molex connectors...

As for the males.... did you not say MPU was a repro? It will not need new males. As for the Vidiot get a 10 power magnifying glass and a good light. Look at the pins for signs of stress on the mating surface. Look on the back of the board look for any cracks or loose pins coming thru the solder. I would also give the board a good visual inspection to see if there are any busted or loose traces or any nics in a trace that could cause a bad connection. I would not attempt to change the males unless I had a proper desoldering station even if they do need it. My guess is they are fine

#18 4 months ago

Correct, I have the repro MPU and SDB so male pines are good. I reflowed all the male connector pins on the Vidiot, so hopefully that will be enough. And I agree, the IDC connectors are crap. But the crimp molex are also hard to find, always out of stock for certain sizes. Which is why getting large ones and trimming them like you mentioned is what I will have to do. Ordered new ones will be a few weeks till they arrive, unless I can somehow find the box of molex connectors I already have that I cant find ahha.

#19 4 months ago

Look on GPE....

#20 4 months ago

yeah, some out of stock as well. Got a few from Marcos, GPE will be for some others.

#21 4 months ago

Replaced all the female connectors except J3 (.156) on Vidiot and J2 (.100) and J3 (.100) on MPU. I ran out of connectors, will have to pick up some more.

That all said, the random reset still happens, after the 3rd or 4th game. So time consuming replacing these connectors, I have a feeling its something else causing the random reset but I will still replace the remaining (3) connectors and hope fore the best.

#22 4 months ago

My friend's baby pack had a recent issue it might be a long shot but in the back of the game the rear door panel there is a push button switch that has to be in in order for the game to operate take a look at that button if yours has one make sure it goes all the way in when the panel is back on the game that was his problem and they fixed it immediately.
Like I said it might be a long shot

#23 4 months ago
Quoted from Power87:

My friend's baby pack had a recent issue it might be a long shot but in the back of the game the rear door panel there is a push button switch that has to be in in order for the game to operate take a look at that button if yours has one make sure it goes all the way in when the panel is back on the game that was his problem and they fixed it immediately.
Like I said it might be a long shot

This is a good point. You can check this by opening the door and putting the switch in service mode by pulling it out. This will cause the game to stay on. Game would shut off and come back on and reboot if this was the case. Issue is that j2 and j3 on MPU are involved in communication with the Vidiot. Did you swap the PIA on the Vidiot with a known good one? I had a game randomly resetting. During game play it wouldn’t shut off it would randomly just jump track and go haywire. Turned out to be a bad PIA on the Vidiot. If you fix the connectors on the MPU and J2 and J3 and your issue remains my suspicion is it on the Vidiot somewhere. Check and see if the 5v supply on the Vidiot is getting hot. Could be a bad 5v reg on it

#24 4 months ago

The back door switch has been pulled out for as long as I can remember. Allowing me to always have access to configure the game etc.

The coin shape regulator that controls reset gets a little hot but it's still producing 5.11v?

As for the new connectors I notice the dark red ones are the best. Any of the new white ones are crap. I don't know if it's a brand thing or what. Plan on just buying a bunch of 28s and 25s and trim them.

Can you clarify a bit on which PIA. You mean the 40pin chips right? I have a bad habit of calling everything chips. Both are replaced with new ones and all the rom chips are new as well as all the others. Replaced them all.

#25 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

The back door switch has been pulled out for as long as I can remember. Allowing me to always have access to configure the game etc.
The coin shape regulator that controls reset gets a little hot but it's still producing 5.11v?
As for the new connectors I notice the dark red ones are the best. Any of the new white ones are crap. I don't know if it's a brand thing or what. Plan on just buying a bunch of 28s and 25s and trim them.
Can you clarify a bit on which PIA. You mean the 40pin chips right? I have a bad habit of calling everything chips. Both are replaced with new ones and all the rom chips are new as well as all the others. Replaced them all.

I have had new chips not be so new.... it’s U7 on the Vidiot. Put the original back in. Or another from game that’s working correctly. As for the 5v regulator. It’s VR1 on the Vidiot power supply.

#26 4 months ago

These I like: connector (resized).png I can change a connector pretty fast, crimp pins slide in and clip very well. But a 28 position is $6 each? The remaining (3) connectors that I need to swap will be done with my next order.

The white ones not so much, the crimp pins bind up and take a lot of wiggling to get them to slide in and often break a clip or wire in the process
white (resized).png but they are cheaper, less than $1

Ok, I will swap my fish N chips with the old ones for U7. And I think I was checking VR2 not VR1, I do have another set of old VR2/VR1 untested regulators I could swap. But, prob better to just order new ones if you think that may be my issue.

#27 4 months ago

Swapped U7. Made it to 3 legit games getting to lvl 2. And the game reset. So, I am guessing it isn't U7

#28 4 months ago

For shits and giggles, I put the door switch back to normal. Meaning door closed and double locked so switch isn't in service mode. Game reset after 3 games as well. So, don't think its the switch unless the inner components of that switch is bad.

If I can get the game to consistently play 2 games before it resets. I will just restart the game every 2 games haha.

#29 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

These I like: [quoted image] I can change a connector pretty fast, crimp pins slide in and clip very well. But a 28 position is $6 each? The remaining (3) connectors that I need to swap will be done with my next order.
The white ones not so much, the crimp pins bind up and take a lot of wiggling to get them to slide in and often break a clip or wire in the process
[quoted image] but they are cheaper, less than $1
Ok, I will swap my fish N chips with the old ones for U7. And I think I was checking VR2 not VR1, I do have another set of old VR2/VR1 untested regulators I could swap. But, prob better to just order new ones if you think that may be my issue.

I like to cut them down. Just simple to not have to stock 30 different ones. As for the white ones are you using the Trifrucon pins. They bind up in the normal housing sometimes. ;(. If the output at the 5v tp is good and it’s not hot. I don’t think it’s the issue.

#30 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

For shits and giggles, I put the door switch back to normal. Meaning door closed and double locked so switch isn't in service mode. Game reset after 3 games as well. So, don't think its the switch unless the inner components of that switch is bad.
If I can get the game to consistently play 2 games before it resets. I will just restart the game every 2 games haha.

Lol. I tried that on the one I have that was doing something similar. Try to restart it before it locks up! Maybe no one will notice.... lmao.

Hopefully jj44114 is still following this thread. He is an expert on these games!

#31 4 months ago

I am using the Trifrucon pins and they certainly do bind up on the white ones. Makes the process pretty painful. From now on, only buying the redish brown ones. I have no idea if they have a name other than its color.

In terms of temperature of the regulator. I will use my temp gun next time to see how hot it is getting and let you know. I hope its overheating, so I can replace it and fix my reset issue lol

#32 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

I am using the Trifrucon pins and they certainly do bind up on the white ones. Makes the process pretty painful. From now on, only buying the redish brown ones. I have no idea if they have a name other than its color.
In terms of temperature of the regulator. I will use my temp gun next time to see how hot it is getting and let you know. I hope its overheating, so I can replace it and fix my reset issue lol

Look for the housings that say for Trifrucon.
Well from someone who has all but beat his brains out trying to chase the last grimlin from the machine. I hope it’s over heating as well! . Did you look the board over well with good light with magnification If possible. Check for any solder splashes or busted traces? Turn it on and wiggle all the connectors on the MPU Vidiot and sdb and see if it resets? At 6 bucks a housing I’m glad I save old ones. GPE was out of some of that stuff last I ordered too.

#33 4 months ago

Temperatures after game running for 1+ hour.
Room temperature is currently 82 °F (turning on AC now lol)

VR1: 106 °F
VR2: 97 °F

U7: 95 °F
U8: 87 °F
U16: 87 °F
U13: 94 °F
U27: 93 °F

ROMS: 83 °F

U19 - U26: 87 °F

EVERYTHING ELSE: Around 85-87 °F

Comments:

1. I have reflowed everything I could.
2. Looked for broken traces but not under a magnifying glass or anything
3. May try my vidiot in a friends machine, but that may be months down the road.
4. I tried the wiggle connector in every way possible.
5. Game still resets even if everything but J8 on SDB unplugged. So, that's almost disabling everything on the playfield.

#34 4 months ago

About to buy a $300+ tested 100% working Vidiot. Should I pull the plunger?

#35 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

About to buy a stupidly expensive $300 tested 100% working Vidiot. Should I pull the plunger?

No send jj44114 a pm. He probably has one My guess is he may take yours in trade. Will be way more cost effective.

#36 4 months ago

The one I found is his. I went ahead and bought it.

#37 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

The one I found is his. I went ahead and bought it.

I hope it clears up your issues. Sorry the other things didn’t get it there. Good news is the Repin and other work you have done will probably prevent future issues with you game.

#38 4 months ago

Its all good, at least this way if I still have the reset issue with the new vidiot I can focus on the other areas that could cause reset issues. I will let you know when I get the new board in as well the other (3) connectors replaced.

#39 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

Its all good, at least this way if I still have the reset issue with the new vidiot I can focus on the other areas that could cause reset issues. I will let you know when I get the new board in as well the other (3) connectors replaced.

I would change the connectors first. That way if the board works you know and have a good spare.

#40 4 months ago

yeah, I agree. Will def do that before the swap.

1 week later
#41 4 months ago

Looks like the new Vidiot from (jj44114) was a success. Will know for sure after I get some more games in. But so far 30 games and 85 minutes of gameplay and counting. Looking good...

#42 4 months ago
Quoted from Spock:

Looks like the new Vidiot from (jj44114) was a success. Will know for sure after I get some more games in. But so far 30 games and 85 minutes of gameplay and counting. Looking good...

Very nice! Jj44114 is the man!

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