(Topic ID: 79650)

TECH—TZ Only Resets When Cold (Doesn’t Reset When Warm Despite 5V Only At 4.8V)

By NM

10 years ago


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#41 10 years ago
Quoted from NM:

UPDATE--replaced the header on J101 and that wasn't the culprit.
Recap:
This game's TP2 was at 4.82V on its PDB--and the game had no drop from the PDB to the CPU at Pin 32.
Swapped in a known-good PDB and TP2 soared to 4.97V (with no more resets of course).
BR2 tested good and it's evident BR2 & BR1 have been replaced by the PO (but looks like C5 & C4 are original).

Thanks.

NM,

One of these might help:

ebay.com link: ws

Rob

#42 10 years ago
Quoted from rkahr:

NM,
One of these might help:
ebay.com link
Rob

NM,
PS seems to break the link (or maybe operator error on this side) - search for item number 281270779341.

Rob

#46 10 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Thanks Rob, very interesting--here's a working link:
ebay.com link
Noted from the YouTube it's plug n play on the CPU--guessing the design accounts for if the problem originates from the PDB?
» YouTube video

NM,

I struggle to answer your guess with a "yes" or "no" because my design compensates for imperfections in the PDB performance without outright replacing the linear supplies on the PDB. So, the PDB 5 volt supply still needs to drive other boards. A supply weakened by age is better able to do this with the load of the MPU removed (I measured the MPU load at 1/4 watt in my PZ). The PDB also must have a sufficiently working 12 volt supply to drive the switched 5 volt supply generated in the daughterboard. The daughterboard is very tolerant of fluctuations in the 12 volt supply - it will work from 7 volts up to about 30-35 volts.

That PZ of mine will play without the daughterboard if I unplug either the sound card or the GI, but it goes straight into resets with both plugged in. In this "unplugged" mode it is playable but still resets occasionally (maybe 45 mins of playing). Being tired of chasing that gremlin and make the linear power perfect, I lived with it for a long time until I dreamed up the daughterboard.

So, no, it doesn't eliminate the need for best practices like replacing failed capacitors, burnt connectors, failed regulators, and fixing outright shorts anywhere in the machine, but yes, it does allow for a lot more tolerance in the many aspects impacting PDB power supply performance including compensating for imperfections in work performed on the PDB power supplies.

I'm planning a more general announcement of these daughterboards in mid-March when I will have a good supply. In my view your thread (and another I replied to on RGP last week) just begged for my daughterboard so I offered the link to my daughterboard as kind of a "soft launch". If you didn't get the last one on eBay two more are available via a paypal purchase on www.kahr.us. I will have 9 more available on the 26th of Feb. After that, look for the launch in mid-March. I hope this detail doesn't hijack your thread - we should stay focused on discussing your TZ.

Rob

#50 10 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Yes, if I was looking for a quick fix I think I would have gone directly to the "Last Resort" of boosting the 5V to 5.15V with a 22 ohm 1/2 watt resistor & cutting the traces (still might have to LOL). Ridiculously cheap too: only about $1 in parts.
But I really want to find the cause of this now.
It's gotten personal...man vs. machine.

Thanks for the assistance.

Don't cut the traces - use vinyl screws/nuts to isolate the heat sink from ground so the resistor hack can be un-done more easily. I get the man/machine logic...I'll be around if that calculus changes.

2 weeks later
#61 10 years ago

Don't cut the traces - if you are going to do the hack do it in a way that has a hope of being undone. Replace heat sink screws with vinyl screws/nuts from home depot/lowes. If I remember correctly I put a vinyl nut between the board and the heat sink AND on the rear of the board. This isolates the regulator from the copper traces. Tie resistor between ground test point on the top side of the board and the casing and to the heat sink. photo-944.JPGphoto-944.JPG. Incidentally I did this and my PZ still reset... which drove me to design the circuit board I mentioned earlier in the thread.

#64 10 years ago

NM, you got it - particularly like your improved wording of "float the heat sink" as it is more descriptive. Vinyl screws come in limited lengths so plan on cutting down the screw so your board fits back in the back box.

Rob.

#71 10 years ago

Clean work NM. Remember though, a meter can hide what an O-scope can show. This blurry picture is about 2 years old - it shows what a brief collapse in the 5 volt line looks like on a PDB - yes, with the resistor jumper in there to push up line voltage. It's tough to see for a lot of reasons (I took it with my old blackberry, my 30 year-old yard sale-purchased scope (that I revived from the dead) doesn't have screen captures, resets were pretty random so I kinda had to get lucky to catch it), but the steep drop and rapid recovery are clear enough. And it can be enough to take 5.1+ volts down to a reset. Even with the hack you may want to consider using my new daughterboard to move the MPU off the 5 volt line. It is certainly as well thought out as my "Float the heat sink" update to the resistor hack.
photo-979.JPGphoto-979.JPG

Rob

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