(Topic ID: 221574)

Team Pinball - Mafia Just Revealed


By pcprogrammer

11 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 332 posts
  • 129 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 46 days ago by PinballSTAR
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

  • Mafia Team Pinball, 2018

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There are 332 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

The theme is cool and at the end of the day I guess it would be fun but $8000? The playfield, a cheep cutout overlay, no silkscreen or clearcoat. The cabinet is just decals, no silk screening at all, butt-jointed corners. The apron is plastic. The lockdown bar is plastic. The upper ball rail is plastic. A single speaker under the playfield, I think? Or no speakers. Raspberry Pie MPU with a Chinese power supply. I'd give you $2000 for it. And that's being conservative. This is the fakest pinball machine I have ever seen. Like something Toys"R"Us would sell if Toys"R"Us where still in business. And you didn't even have to pay for a licence... lol Should have never posted pics of this on this website. What a scam. And I though Stern pinball machines were cheap, This thing makes Stern machines look like Ferrari's. I can clearly understand the cost of a start up company but this is something else. I can't imagine the cost per unit being more then $1200. Just comes off as trying to "cash in" on the current market IMO.

Ouch. Well they built 10. If they don't get orders, they won't build more. And if the first customers are negative about it, they won't get a second wind of orders.

But ultimately they are still not that deep in debt:
1) This is still their hobby and they have day jobs
2) They have a system now, and can tackle a more competitive table design
3) They just invested in making 10 machines. Which is like less than what most of us pinheads have in our private collections

So to me, even if Mafia fails, the new company is in good shape to tackle something more appealing for the second pin.

But yah - they will need to quit the day job and work like hell to make something truly "collectible"

#252 10 months ago

I actually like the lay out and art work
But other then that it’s nothing showing
Anything worth forking over $8k
With that said ; I’m out !!

#253 10 months ago

It should go without saying but I'm going to bloody do it anyway: anyone saying 'I'm out' at this early point was never going to be in regardless.

#254 10 months ago

I see that they did some future proofing by providing and additional 6 drivers for solenoids. That's a plus. The price is what's going to kill them off IMO. WAY to high.

#255 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

I see that they did some future proofing by providing and additional 6 drivers for solenoids. That's a plus. The price is what's going to kill them off IMO. WAY to high.

Yes but price is also what killed TBL and Alien because it was "way too low".

#256 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yes but price is also what killed TBL and Alien because it was "way too low".

In the case of TBL (don't know about Alien) mismanagement was the dominating failure cause IMHO. Pricing does contribute to all failures.

#257 10 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

It should go without saying but I'm going to bloody do it anyway: anyone saying 'I'm out' at this early point was never going to be in regardless.

And half the folks who say "I'm in!" aren't really in. Unfortunately for these folks, half of zero is still zero. You said it plays better than it looks and was fun. I'd sure get some gameplay video up, full playfield, start to finish, actual audio. I'd also figure out a way to lower that price considerably.

I listened to a couple podcasts discussing this pin. They weren't terribly excited and I guess even the limited run is in question? The US distributor made the suggestion they'd build more if they sold 100. A collector buying it just because it's going to be uber rare isn't going to like that, though I don't think it's ever going to be a problem for them.

#258 10 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

And half the folks who say "I'm in!" aren't really in. Unfortunately for these folks, half of zero is still zero. You said it plays better than it looks and was fun. I'd sure get some gameplay video up, full playfield, start to finish, actual audio. I'd also figure out a way to lower that price considerably.
I listened to a couple podcasts discussing this pin. They weren't terribly excited and I guess even the limited run is in question? The US distributor made the suggestion they'd build more if they sold 100. A collector buying it just because it's going to be uber rare isn't going to like that, though I don't think it's ever going to be a problem for them.

If they build 100 pins and only sell a few a good idea instead of lowering prices is to just say only 100 will be made total. AMH did something like this.

#259 10 months ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

If they build 100 pins and only sell a few a good idea instead of lowering prices is to just say only 100 will be made total. AMH did something like this.

I don't disagree, but a certain interview suggests something different is possible. Another good point that was made, a collector spending thousands on a collectible wants it to be special. It's a pin built by a small team in their spare time with no deposit money, and kudos for that, but those aren't selling points. If anything, we've learned that small time pinball businesses can disappear just like that. They just stop responding and that's it.

Theme? I wish the theme was something special. The community will forgive a lot if the theme is desirable. A neutered Taxi with DVD box cover art for the playfield had folks chomping at the bit a few years ago. I'm not saying they are Skit-B at all, but my point is the theme is important, especially if gameplay is in doubt.

Build quality? It's obvious this isn't up to JJP's standards right? Up until DI, they sure as hell weren't getting by on gameplay. Flame suit on

Gameplay? Show me. Right now I don't believe it, but I didn't see it with TNA either until I played it. I sure don't see it though, especially with that edited video.

Price? Crazy now and probably crazier after Brexit. At this price point, there are so many better options.

#260 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yes but price is also what killed TBL and Alien because it was "way too low".

But successful pricing is about what your business needs AND the market conditions.

If you need to sell a 100 units @8k/each to be in business... but the market won't support that price point... then you shouldn't launch that product.

Both market and business must be in harmony for success... I think everyone is pretty universal, the simplier a game's PF is, the more price intolerant they are. You have a much higher hill to climb to convince buyers its worth it. Especially with the secondary market alternatives out there.

What killed other projects financially is the idea that you can support a start-up with just limited capital and game pre-sales.. instead of the reality that every new business faces... the idea of running in the red until you are established and overcome the ramp up costs... and planning for that.

#261 10 months ago
Quoted from kidchrisso:

Reminds me of Jetsons.....no thanks

way better than jetsons

#262 10 months ago

Pinball is hard. The true art isn't the engineering or illustrating or sound design, it's the accounting.

It's refreshing to see a more honest approach to starting a pinball company. They could have over promised and under delivered while also stealing peoples' money. Kudos to Team Pinball if they pull this off and bring us more games in the future!

10
#263 10 months ago

So many innovative things on this machine.
The first pinball machine since the wood rail machines to not come with a metal lockdown bar (Instead it's plastic).
The first pinball machine in history to come with a plain white playfield with no graphics of any kind applied directly to it. (inexpensive overlay)
The first pinball machine since the 80's to have a single speaker in the cabinet. (no annoying stereo sound for you)
The first pinball machine to use an off the shelf MPU (Rasberry Pi 3 retail $25-35)
The first pinball machine based on an older EM style layout to not come with a metal upper ball guide or any metal guides (all plastic) Should last forever.
The first pinball machine to come with a fake plastic apron. Technically not an apron at all.
There are so many innovations I can't keep track, a cabinet with butt-jointed corners (no mitered joints).
Decals on the cabinet and backbox (no silk-screening) An inexpensive $35 10" LCD monitor and I bet the back glass isn't glass at all!!
And all for the low low price of $8-8500!!
Why buy a brand new Pirates of the Caribbean Pinball Machine or any Stern for nearly $2000 less when you can have this generic themed beauty!!

#264 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

So many innovative things on this machine.
The first pinball machine since the wood rail machines to not come with a metal lockdown bar (Instead it's plastic).
The first pinball machine in history to come with a plain white playfield with no graphics of any kind applied directly to it. (inexpensive overlay)
The first pinball machine since the 80's to have a single speaker in the cabinet. (no annoying stereo sound for you)
The first pinball machine to use an off the shelf MPU (Rasberry Pi 3 retail $25-35)
The first pinball machine based on an older EM style layout to not come with a metal upper ball guide or any metal guides (all plastic) Should last forever.
The first pinball machine to come with a fake plastic apron. Technically not an apron at all.
There are so many innovations I can't keep track, a cabinet with butt-jointed corners (no mitered joints).
Decals on the cabinet and backbox (no silk-screening) An inexpensive $35 10" LCD monitor and I bet the back glass isn't glass at all!!
And all for the low low price of $8-8500!!
Why buy a brand new Pirates of the Caribbean Pinball Machine or any Stern for nearly $2000 less when you can have this generic themed beauty!!

pinballstar are any of these points not correct? Serious question as I was not aware of most of them.

#265 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

So many innovative things on this machine.
The first pinball machine since the wood rail machines to not come with a metal lockdown bar (Instead it's plastic).

Homepin's Thunderbirds has a plastic lockdown bar as well so they can claim the first there.

#266 10 months ago

Too simple, too expensive, The playfield looks like they threw down some butterscotch and drag and dropped a few pictures over with MS paint.. my favorite part, where your eyes go first on the table.

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#267 10 months ago
Quoted from orangegsx:

Too simple, too expensive, The playfield looks like they threw down some butterscotch and drag and dropped a few pictures over with MS paint.. my favorite part, where your eyes go first on the table.
[quoted image]

Embarrassing.

#268 10 months ago
Quoted from swinks:

Homepin's Thunderbirds has a plastic lockdown bar as well so they can claim the first there.

You sure about that? Sure it's not just painted black and very very much metal? If not I stand corrected. And proud to see Team Pinball carry on the tradition lol.

#269 10 months ago

I worked with these guys for years and had no idea what they were up to. Working for Heighway Pinball was a valuable lesson for all of us.....whatever Andrew Heighway did, do the complete opposite and you might be successful. Team Pinball are doing just that it seems. However, the price for this product is way too high. For a new company, they should be aiming at around £4k. And realistically, they shouldn't expect to see a profit for a few years.

It does look like a quality, well-made product but this game needs amazing code to counter the simplistic layout and unappealing theme.

I wish them the best of luck on their new endeavour.

#270 10 months ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

I worked with these guys for years and had no idea what they were up to. Working for Heighway Pinball was a valuable lesson for all of us.....whatever Andrew Heighway did, do the complete opposite and you might be successful. Team Pinball are doing just that it seems. However, the price for this product is way too high. For a new company, they should be aiming at around £4k. And realistically, they shouldn't expect to see a profit for a few years.
It does look like a quality, well-made product but this game needs amazing code to counter the simplistic layout and unappealing theme.
I wish them the best of luck on their new endeavour.

I wish them the best of luck but, I just don't see it happening and will most likely be another disaster.

#271 10 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

way better than jetsons

I'm asking an honest question, have you played it? I personally think Jetsons looks fun, simple, but fun. I would love to try it, but I don't have a way to play it.

#272 10 months ago
Quoted from swinks:

Homepin's Thunderbirds has a plastic lockdown bar as well so they can claim the first there.

Homepin were first with the plastic lockdown bar AND the plastic printed Playfield. What hey don’t have is the price.

#273 10 months ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

I worked with these guys for years and had no idea what they were up to. Working for Heighway Pinball was a valuable lesson for all of us.....whatever Andrew Heighway did, do the complete opposite and you might be successful. Team Pinball are doing just that it seems. However, the price for this product is way too high. For a new company, they should be aiming at around £4k. And realistically, they shouldn't expect to see a profit for a few years.
It does look like a quality, well-made product but this game needs amazing code to counter the simplistic layout and unappealing theme.
I wish them the best of luck on their new endeavour.

£4K is only feasible if you're producing in bulk with a large factory floor and are certain to shift enough units. And if the equation was that easy, Stern would be doing it. This is hand-built by three people in the same way JPop was trying to do - it's not *quite* the same as saying, 'well the Mona Lisa can't be worth millions if I can pick up a print of it for a fiver', but you get the idea. It's definitely not aimed at the market that people think it is, and is not intended, nor is it a requirement, for it to sell even triple digit quantities.

#274 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

... I just don't see it happening and will most likely be another disaster.

A time-honored tradition in pinball. Skeletons everywhere...

#275 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

You sure about that? Sure it's not just painted black and very very much metal? If not I stand corrected. And proud to see Team Pinball carry on the tradition lol.

The Mafia's lockdown bar isn't plastic.

#276 10 months ago

Also reverse-printed plastic playfields were common on European games going back ages ago.

#277 10 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

The Mafia's lockdown bar isn't plastic.

But why let that get in the way of a good vendetta?

#278 10 months ago

Is that the vanilla, strawberry, or mint Vendetta?

#279 10 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

If you need to sell a 100 units @8k/each to be in business... but the market won't support that price point... then you shouldn't launch that product.

And they could very well fail to sell 100 units. The market will decide.

Boutiques fail because they don't amortize the startup costs into the profit of the game. They always underestimate the costs and end up in the red.

This price is high but at least it's guaranteed to cover their costs.

#280 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

...Boutiques fail because they don't amortize the startup costs into the profit of the game.

My understanding is this is a garage project involving 4 guys in their spare time. No big Andrew/Japp salaries. That is a substantial advantage IMHO.

#281 10 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

It's definitely not aimed at the market that people think it is

You've got 6 pages of the market talking here dude. Read the Pinball Magazine article. It's pretty clear on the intended market. The damn thing is the playfield is printed on plastic. They could retheme this more easily than if it were a traditional playfield. They could probably even tweak the design of the playfield itself without too much trouble. They can be stubborn about it or they can listen to the market. As is? I suspect they are going to crash and burn.

#282 10 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

You've got 6 pages of the market talking here dude. Read the Pinball Magazine article. It's pretty clear on the intended market. The damn thing is the playfield is printed on plastic. They could retheme this more easily than if it were a traditional playfield. They could probably even tweak the design of the playfield itself without too much trouble. They can be stubborn about it or they can listen to the market. As is? I suspect they are going to crash and burn.

Yeah if it isn't aimed towards pinball players or collectors then they have achieved their goal!

#283 10 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

You've got 6 pages of the market talking here dude. Read the Pinball Magazine article. It's pretty clear on the intended market. The damn thing is the playfield is printed on plastic. They could retheme this more easily than if it were a traditional playfield. They could probably even tweak the design of the playfield itself without too much trouble. They can be stubborn about it or they can listen to the market. As is? I suspect they are going to crash and burn.

That's not the market talking. The market talks (or doesn't) in numbers of units sold. You might be right if the 10 they've built remain sitting in their office for a long while.

I suspect they will not, however.

#284 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

You sure about that? Sure it's not just painted black and very very much metal? If not I stand corrected. And proud to see Team Pinball carry on the tradition lol.

Quoted from cooked71:

Homepin were first with the plastic lockdown bar AND the plastic printed Playfield. What hey don’t have is the price.

yes as per what cooked71 stated they used a plastic lockdown bar which suffered damage after I think 2 events close together and I think the background is they tried to do steel ones but couldn't get the pressing right.

also apart from Hardtops they are doing printed on the underside what is effectively a playfield protector which I think was done in the 80's as well in a thicker plastic.

I do agree the price of Mafia is too high, hopefully they have awesome code, plays well and they are able to drop the price a little

#285 10 months ago

I'm kind of glad these guys are not going at this as a full time gig. Their dedication is admirable, but the execution is going to put this title in the ditch. But the good news is, they will learn a big lesson and hopefully not go bankrupt. A venture like this will probably build only as many units as they sell, and not parylize them with dead capital.

#286 10 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

That's not the market talking. The market talks (or doesn't) in numbers of units sold. You might be right if the 10 they've built remain sitting in their office for a long while.
I suspect they will not, however.

You can debate the semantics with me, but they ignore the lukewarm response at their own peril. The last pin I can recall that got the cold shoulder from Pinside was WWE. There are probably 10 collectors out there who will buy this hoping those are the only 10 made. I don't think that's what they really want. They want to sell at least 100. Retheme it and maybe tweak the gameplay. Consulting with a marketing person would be a good idea too.

#287 10 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

The last pin I can recall that got the cold shoulder from Pinside was WWE

EVERY single pin that's announced gets a shitstorm from Pinside - that's what Pinside does best

#288 10 months ago
Quoted from WJxxxx:

EVERY single pin that's announced gets a shitstorm from Pinside - that's what Pinside does best

IMDN didnt

#289 10 months ago

From what I hear this game is at least better than Thunderbirds.

#290 10 months ago

Incorrect... many had to go on and on about how awful a band choice it was... about switch adjustments... how they hate the music... why won't they just retheme this... blah blah blah

#291 10 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Incorrect... many had to go on and on about how awful a band choice it was... about switch adjustments... how they hate the music... why won't they just retheme this... blah blah blah

Well i guess if you want to count those people but as far as the game itself there hasnt been anything but praise for the most part. Theres not a game out there anywhere that 100 percent of the people will like.

#292 10 months ago

Is Team Pinball the group that designed the Heighway hardware?

#293 10 months ago

Not a single drop target? Really?

#294 10 months ago

Team Pinball will be giving a talk at UKPinfest -

Saturday 25th August 1pm - Team Pinball with The Mafia!

The talk will also hopefully be streamed live - https://www.twitch.tv/NeilMcRae/

2 weeks later
#295 9 months ago

Live now team Pinball from U.K. pinfest!

Twitch.tv/NeilMcRae/

#296 9 months ago

https://www.twitch.tv/pinball_live

Gameplay being streamed live now.

#297 9 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

The Mafia's lockdown bar isn't plastic.

For those who were curious, this was put to bed in the Q&A earlier.

It's metal foil wrapped MDF.

#298 9 months ago

Doesn't look like there are a lot of shots.

#299 9 months ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Doesn't look like there are a lot of shots.

You needed a stream to reach this conclusion?

#300 9 months ago
Quoted from stevevt:

You needed a stream to reach this conclusion?

I mean, the layout seems somewhat similar to TNA but TNA does have a decent number of shots. This layout just appears to have a lot of wasted space.

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