(Topic ID: 221574)

Team Pinball - Mafia Just Revealed


By pcprogrammer

11 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 332 posts
  • 129 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 45 days ago by PinballSTAR
  • Topic is favorited by 20 Pinsiders

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  • Mafia Team Pinball, 2018

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There are 332 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 7.
#201 10 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Of COURSE it's over dramatic. How else do you expect to get anybody to read anything around here?
All I know is people continue to bitch about Stern "raising prices" when in fact you can still not buy a cheaper new pinball machine, anywhere, from anybody. JJP started as a "boutique" too, and every company since has come out all guns blazing with similarly priced machines. So why blame Stern? They are the only company still selling new games for reasonable prices, and the LEAST responsible for the price wars.
The rest of the Johnny come latelys, all of whom charge much higher prices, bear the responsibility for permanently raising the bar on prices.

Lol. That’s true, it wouldn’t be Pinside without the dramatic

When you are going to sell 12k games this year that’s why you get the Pro version in the 5k range.

Nobody else will ever be able to reach those economies of scale

It’s the dummies like me that buy high margin LEs and premiums for that matter, that allow Stern to price those pros that way

It’s a great business model for Stern

#202 10 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

So a company comes out of nowhere and has games to deliver today, with a throwback design and illustrative artwork, and didn’t rip anyone off through preorders, and the first thing people do is crap all over it? Jeez. It costs a lot to make manufactured goods in places like the UK and USA. Especially from scratch.
If this is fun they’ll rip through their 100 no problem. And yeah they probably are padding their pockets a bit on price. But better to do that and use the money to possibly make another game or buy equipment to scale up, vs offering a way too low preorder price then failing to get the games out the door.
8K couldn’t get TBL out the door profitably from a European manufacturer. So I don’t think their price is outrageous given the history of pinball manufacturers not making it.

Tough crowd, that Pinside is!

#203 10 months ago

Hmmm is now the time to announce the production of Junkyard Cats for the guaranteed price of "somewhere under $7500"?

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#204 10 months ago

That looks fun as hell!

#205 10 months ago

I agree with most of the criticisms about the game, but I don't blame anybody who does want one and ends up buying one. I'd like the company to succeed. You have to realize $7500 x 100 games is only $750,000 to design, build, have a shop, parts,tools, pay the guys, and everything that goes along with making a pinball machine and hopefully still have a enough profit left over to do something else afterwords. Doesn't seem like a whole lot of margin when you think about it that way.

All that said though, the playfield layout looks just like Wild Life and Jungle with 2 exta pop bumpers

#206 10 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

it wouldn’t be Pinside without the dramatic

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#207 10 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I agree with most of the criticisms about the game, but I don't blame anybody who does want one and ends up buying one. I'd like the company to succeed. You have to realize $7500 x 100 games is only $750,000 to design, build, have a shop, parts,tools, pay the guys, and everything that goes along with making a pinball machine and hopefully still have a enough profit left over to do something else afterwords. Doesn't seem like a whole lot of margin when you think about it that way.
All that said though, the playfield layout looks just like Wild Life and Jungle with 2 exta pop bumpers

Nobody is saying they don't have a right to a profit or shouldn't try to avoid going broke.

But maybe they didn't have to bother making this thing, either. Not sure the market was really calling out for a fancy full-size zizzle at $8000.

#208 10 months ago

I like that the rules are hurry up based, so Mafia might be more fun than it looks, creating tension and pressure. Hopefully it works well.

#209 10 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

I agree with most of the criticisms about the game, but I don't blame anybody who does want one and ends up buying one. I'd like the company to succeed. You have to realize $7500 x 100 games is only $750,000 to design, build, have a shop, parts,tools, pay the guys, and everything that goes along with making a pinball machine and hopefully still have a enough profit left over to do something else afterwords. Doesn't seem like a whole lot of margin when you think about it that way.
All that said though, the playfield layout looks just like Wild Life and Jungle with 2 exta pop bumpers

This should just be a stepping stone for these guys

Not sure how you survive selling 100 games of anything. It seems we have already seen that movie play out

Gotta believe though it’s just step one in a long term game plan if they can get down the road

#210 10 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I like that the rules are hurry up based, so Mafia might be more fun than it looks, creating tension and pressure. Hopefully it works well.

Hey, it worked for Hook!

err....

Quoted from iceman44:

This should just be a stepping stone for these guys
Not sure how you survive selling 100 games of anything. It seems we have already seen that movie play out
Gotta believe though it’s just step one in a long term game plan if they can get down the road

That's true! If there's one thing we've learned from upstart pinball companies, they always have sound long-term plans, all their ducks in a row, and the ability to weather the stormy, turbulent seas of the pinball business as they work out the kinks!

#211 10 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

I like that the rules are hurry up based, so Mafia might be more fun than it looks, creating tension and pressure. Hopefully it works well.

That's what I've said all along.

Beside the simple layout, you don't have the biggest drawback of most newer games-

No where for the ball to stop to make you wait for some stupid video clip or instructions what to do next..

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#212 10 months ago

Wow.....here we have a new company announcing that they have a new pin and the thread has just turned into bickering.

It's being slated before it's even been seen or played. They've asked no one for money up front and they didn't make a huge announcement 2 years ago. They've just got their heads down and worked damn hard by the sounds of it, to bring out a machine and have 10 for sale on launch.

It may not be for you. Not everything in life is for you. Just because it's not for you, you don't have to hate it.

A new company with a new machine. Give them a chance. No one is forcing you to play/buy it.

A new company and a new pinball angle is good for the community. The more competition there is, the better it can be for us.

Don't hate. Give them a chance.

#213 10 months ago

Do you guys have the Cricket version of pitch and bats over in England? If not, you should. Hint, hint.

#214 10 months ago

I wish them well and commend them for all of the positive things already recognised in this thread. But so far, I'm not seeing any, Shut up and take my money memes and I'm only seeing lukewarm defenders.

Correct me if if I'm wrong but it seems like some of you are saying, Great job, not for me but I hope someone will by it.

#215 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm not seeing any, Shut up and take my money memes

Perhaps that money's already all gone.

#216 10 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Perhaps that money's already all gone.

A reliable source told me there's a national meme shortage.

#217 10 months ago

crazylevi Dude gotta disagree with you. Boutiques aren't driving up the price of pinball. What's driving up the price of pinball is way more collectors, and every year it seems they got more money. If anything, the failed boutiques actually helped keep some of that money from sloshing into used game prices.

Our New England Pinball League has gone from 30 players in 2012 to 250+ players in 2018. A lot of those players got into it when PinWiz opened in NH or one of the like 10 New England barcades that opened up (Providence, RI has TWO barcades and a pizza joint with like 10 games. a city of 180K!). All these guys like myself started buying a few games, seems like everyone in league has at least one now. Used to be games that collectors wouldn't touch like Torpedo Alley would sit around forever before selling for under $1000. Now people see PAPA streams, or Jack Danger's twitch channel, or played it in league, or at a barcade, and now most games that aren't total garbage are north of 1K and more likely 2K.

There's also just a LOT of money sloshing around the economy. Interest rates have been low for a long time, and I'm seeing wacky things from people. Don't get me wrong I love a good well-made product but when people making $100K a year are buying $50-80K teslas I am scratching my head like crazy. Pinball is not immune to this either. Too much money chasing too few goods.

#218 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

A reliable source told me there's a national meme shortage.

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#219 10 months ago

Good luck to 'em, but I wouldn't buy this as (IMO):

- Too expensive. Would it be cheaper to relocate the company in Hungary and make it there (serious question)? Two out of the three founders of this company are Hungarian so it could be done. Plus the UK is leaving the EU soon so it will be economically fucked and tariffed out of the Single Market.
- Very simplistic design a la Zizzle (reminds me of New Canasta too).
- Unsexy generic theme and artwork.
- 'The Mafia' reminds me about the Bill Hicks joke about buying 'orange drink' in England. Generic city! Like Full Throttle in that regard.

But mostly it's about the price. If it was a fair bit cheaper I'd be turning up at their factory in my vee hickle

#220 10 months ago
Quoted from BigPhil:

Wow.....here we have a new company announcing that they have a new pin and the thread has just turned into bickering.
It's being slated before it's even been seen or played. They've asked no one for money up front and they didn't make a huge announcement 2 years ago. They've just got their heads down and worked damn hard by the sounds of it, to bring out a machine and have 10 for sale on launch.
It may not be for you. Not everything in life is for you. Just because it's not for you, you don't have to hate it.
A new company with a new machine. Give them a chance. No one is forcing you to play/buy it.
A new company and a new pinball angle is good for the community. The more competition there is, the better it can be for us.
Don't hate. Give them a chance.

totally agree and well said ........

It is the Jpop's that burnt people asking insane dollars for what was an idea and sketches and only Magic Girl machine finished (and the rest is hot air) and at insane dollars and it didn't work.

I dare say the price is high due to the lack of parts buying power and not greed.

Lets at least let them flesh out the rules and stream / youtube it soon explaining a full game and hear some call outs.

And if you don't like it move on not destroy their dreams as they are doing it the Spooky way.

#221 10 months ago

So if I'm understanding this thread correctly:

Some people really wanted to try making pinball machines (presumably because they like pinball).
They decided to do it themselves (presumably with loans), not with consumers money.
They made a simple game because they wanted to make sure they didn't bite off more than they could chew.
The game may be fun, it looks like it has the potential to be.
And other than bitching about theme and artwork (which you can find a group of people to bitch about no matter what the theme), the only complaint is the cost?

So...don't buy it. You are right, this game is not worth $7,500, not even close. But that is what they need to make it and be able to invest in a new game (again presuming here). So they decided to try to make it in a business where a lot of people have a lot of excess money to spend. They realized that it is pretty likely there are 100 people in this hobby, which is filled with people with too much money, who will happily pay that for a new, exclusive game.

What are you angry about? That you didn't do this yourself? Or that you too are one of these people with too much money and you realize you are probably going to get duped into buying something like this? You don't have to.

And all the people complaining about how they could buy so many used games for that much: that isn't the point. These games aren't meant for most of us. Stern LEs aren't meant for most of us. Hell, Stern Pros aren't meant for most of us. I think it is absurd the prices that some games sell for, but I know people much less well off than I am that most likely think it is absurd when they see my machines.

So really, how is this hurting you? Why do you care? I've read the argument that these new boutique companies are driving the prices up across the board, but I don't necessarily agree. They are driving up the cost of new Sterns for sure, but I find it unlikely that WOZ and TNA are the reason a Taxi costs $2000 instead of $1200. I'm pretty sure it's because there are a lot of people like me who are in their 20s or 30s, who have expendable income in a good economy, and who have realized that if they want it, they can go out and get their own pinball machines. I don't know where to find stats on it, but I would wager a guess that there is has been a statistically significant increase in the number of new people who have purchased machines in the last five years compared to the five or ten years before that. And really at any point before that most likely because the hobby has shifted heavily from operators to home owners.

But again, what good does complaining about it do you? What would you like instead of this? A new game like this that costs half the price I assume? It takes scale for that to work. It isn't possible for a company to pop up and make thousands of machines for only a few thousand dollars. A company has to build to get to that point. I don't know if that's what this company or any company plans to do, but if it is, it isn't going to happen without them squeezing money out of people who can spend it without a care so they can build some capital and experience. Maybe that never happens, maybe every new pinball that comes out costs $6000+. But guess what, that doesn't affect you if you don't buy it.

Wow, that was quite a rant. Thanks for your time

#222 10 months ago
Quoted from porkcarrot:

But again, what good does complaining about it do you?

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#223 10 months ago

This thread is now mostly commentary about whether people should be providing their honest reaction to the game or not, in a thread on a pinball forum, about this game.

#224 10 months ago
Quoted from BigPhil:

Don't hate. Give them a chance.

#225 10 months ago

Buzz is buzz. Activity keeps this thread at the top of page 1 where all the potential buyers looking for a pin like this will better see it. That's not a bad thing. The scolding is lame. This should be valuable info for them, whether negative or positive. They may not like all the feedback, but you can stick your head under a pillow or you can address the concerns. Most everyone commenting here owns multiple pins. This is good feedback.

This thread is 2 days old. How many SUATMM! memes have been posted? Have a look at some other reveal threads for comparison.

#226 10 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I don't mind losing a few dollars to this hobby, as it's happened more than once when I got the NIB itch, but buying this for $7500 plus whatever takes to get it here and then trying to sell it later if I tire of it, that chunk of change lost might be a bit harder to swallow.

I scratched my unique (oddball) NIB game purchase itch with Pabst Can Crusher and paid for it in the long run. Ain't gonna do it again for a similarly simple game with much less aesthetic appeal and an even higher price.

#227 10 months ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Good luck to 'em, but I wouldn't buy this as (IMO):
- Too expensive. Would it be cheaper to relocate the company in Hungary and make it there (serious question)? Two out of the three founders of this company are Hungarian so it could be done. Plus the UK is leaving the EU soon so it will be economically fucked and tariffed out of the Single Market.

I too wondered this. They started work before the referendum vote though, and a long time before a [catastrophic] no deal exit looked likely.

Importing parts will be a total nightmare if there's a no-deal or we exit the customs union. Aside from the additional paperwork for stuff coming from the EU, ports and customs warehouses at air terminals will be totally deadlocked; probably for a long time, until a new customs clearing system is up and running in 5-10 years.

I would think that for any subsequent titles, Hungary would be looked at.

#228 10 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I scratched my unique (oddball) NIB game purchase itch with Pabst Can Crusher and paid for it in the long run. Ain't gonna do it again for a similarly simple game with much less aesthetic appeal and an even higher price.

Truth is there isn't almost any new game you can't pick up on the secondary market for cheaper once the initial hype wears off. Except maybe LEs or in the rare case a fabulous low production machine like Supreme.

Many people were laughing and insulting at just the idea Batman66 Super LE was to be sold for $15k. But good luck finding one at that price now.

#229 10 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Do you guys have the Cricket version of pitch and bats over in England? If not, you should. Hint, hint.

There's a reason why not.

#230 10 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Do you guys have the Cricket version of pitch and bats over in England? If not, you should. Hint, hint.

They are in Wales not England

#231 10 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

It's like telling the designer of the Pontiac Aztec "Killer SUV dude. It's beautiful"

If you are Walter White, this is literally true.
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#232 10 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Half price, and it would sell like gangbusters.

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#233 10 months ago
Quoted from Seraph:

If you are Walter White, this is literally true.

Beyond the rarest of unicorns - the word "literally" used correctly!

#234 10 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Beyond the rarest of unicorns - the word "literally" used correctly!

Now for an encore, get people to stop mixing up 'why' with 'how'.

-1
#235 10 months ago

i now know why i stopped using Pinside. Little about Pinball, just moans and groans.

#236 10 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

Now for an encore, get people to stop mixing up 'why' with 'how'.

#237 10 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Pontiac Aztec "Killer SUV dude. It's beautiful". No, it's not, and probably not a good idea to put it into production.

Better watch your mouth!

The Pontiac azztec had an optional TENT!

A freaking tent so you could go camping, or hang out at soccer games where everyone gets a trophy just like in pinball!

#238 10 months ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

The Pontiac azztec had an optional TENT!

A freaking tent

Meh, 1959 did it better

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#239 10 months ago
Quoted from mikekemp:

i stopped using Pinside.

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#240 10 months ago

The Mafia will be at UKPinfest! We are pleased to announce the world exclusive reveal of the first pinball machine from http://teampinball.com/ Get to play the machine and join in on the Q&A with the people behind Team Pinball!

#241 10 months ago

The theme is cool and at the end of the day I guess it would be fun but $8000? The playfield, a cheep cutout overlay, no silkscreen or clearcoat. The cabinet is just decals, no silk screening at all, butt-jointed corners. The apron is plastic. The lockdown bar is plastic. The upper ball rail is plastic. A single speaker under the playfield, I think? Or no speakers. Raspberry Pie MPU with a Chinese power supply. I'd give you $2000 for it. And that's being conservative. This is the fakest pinball machine I have ever seen. Like something Toys"R"Us would sell if Toys"R"Us where still in business. And you didn't even have to pay for a licence... lol Should have never posted pics of this on this website. What a scam. And I though Stern pinball machines were cheap, This thing makes Stern machines look like Ferrari's. I can clearly understand the cost of a start up company but this is something else. I can't imagine the cost per unit being more then $1200. Just comes off as trying to "cash in" on the current market IMO.

#242 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

This thing makes Stern machines look like Ferrari's.

#243 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

The theme is cool and at the end of the day I guess it would be fun but $8000? The playfield, a cheep cutout overlay, no silkscreen or clearcoat. The cabinet is just decals, no silk screening at all, butt-jointed corners. The apron is plastic. The lockdown bar is plastic. The upper ball rail is plastic. A single speaker under the playfield, I think? Or no speakers. Raspberry Pie MPU with a Chinese power supply. I'd give you $2000 for it. And that's being conservative. This is the fakest pinball machine I have ever seen. Like something Toys"R"Us would sell if Toys"R"Us where still in business. And you didn't even have to pay for a licence... lol Should have never posted pics of this on this website. What a scam. And I though Stern pinball machines were cheap, This thing makes Stern machines look like Ferrari's. I can clearly understand the cost of a start up company but this is something else. I can't imagine the cost per unit being more then $1200. Just comes off as trying to "cash in" on the current market IMO.

Pretty much agree. Only thing is: don't forget the development time : probably hundred of hours and in C++, not python language this time with a new hardware. C++ is much harder and no sample anywhere... respect.
They probably financing their next projects with this but we know that the software and harware are a big deal for a new pin.

#244 10 months ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

Pretty much agree. Only thing is: don't forget the development time : probably hundred of hours and in C++, not python language this time with a new hardware. C++ is much harder and no sample anywhere... respect.
They probably financing their next projects with this but we know that the software and harware are a big deal for a new pin.

Yea but wait a second. You're not talking about a modern pinball rule set with multiball, wizard modes, ball locks etc. This looks like a very basic game that is most likely based on a pre-existing game and layout. In fact I would bet anything that it is. Be curious to know which one... Anyone dare to take a guess?

#245 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

Yea but wait a second. You're not talking about a modern pinball rule set with multiball, wizard modes, ball locks etc. This looks like a very basic game that is most likely based on a pre-existing game and layout. In fact I would bet anything that it is. Be curious to know which one... Anyone dare to take a guess?

Yes maybe. The video doesn't show really the animation stuff and i didn't hear any voice either. My guess is still that start a new hardware and c++ lib for a first pin is a ton of work but yes maybe easier here. One of the guy was Heighway employee if i m not wrong. I guess he has good experience with software so didn't start from scratch.

#246 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

Anyone dare to take a guess?

2 gated orbits to the top, down to an enclosed area where you bump around and heat the... I mean rob the bank! and hey I'm shooting in the dark here but maybe when you reach 100% of the loot then one of those yellow targets could randomly light and you should hit it to get the money. and of course you could multiply your money hitting that captive ball a couple times like "you want to hit the captive ball to multiply the bank loot value"
...
I mean I would do that with that playfield but then again I have no shame .

#247 10 months ago
Quoted from 3rdaxis:

Yea but wait a second. You're not talking about a modern pinball rule set with multiball, wizard modes, ball locks etc. This looks like a very basic game that is most likely based on a pre-existing game and layout. In fact I would bet anything that it is. Be curious to know which one... Anyone dare to take a guess?

Quoted from Haymaker:

All that said though, the playfield layout looks just like Wild Life and Jungle with 2 exta pop bumpers

I'm bored...

#248 10 months ago

So does this game have a sound track or is it just chimes i wonder?

#249 10 months ago

By watching that YouTube video. This game reminds me of breakshot.

If breakshot had no drops, or the 3rd flipper.
Or the awesome ball lock.

So nothing as good as Breakshot.

12
#250 10 months ago

Well, I got to play it a good bit today and it's a lot of fun. Definitely more sophisticated and stylish than the basic layout appears at first, and the decision to use lightning flippers with a centre post gives it an interesting feel and extra challenge. Overall quite an achievement for a core team of four all working in their spare time.

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