(Topic ID: 111439)

Team EM help needed on 1959 Gottlieb Race Time

By Underspin

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 14 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Underspin
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 9 years ago

Looking for some help on a customer machine with some issues. Contacts and wiring look good. The problem is regarding the ball lock that opens and closes to collect drained balls. I've attached a video to demonstrate...Thanks for your time.

#2 9 years ago

Does it behave this way with the five balls actually in the ball trough? (so that they'd close the ball switches).

Have you tried scoring other than the same point value? (some games don't take just any points, but only 10, or 100).

#3 9 years ago

Thanks DF yes it's the same with the balls in or out but it was much easier to demonstrate with them out. There is only the one switch not three or five that balls would sit on as other machines have. I also did try all switches up top, all rollovers, there are three drain holes in the middle of that machine where the balls can also fall. Tried those with the same exact results every time.

#4 9 years ago

OK, those were just the short cuts.

I don't think I've got a Race Time schematic, but will have to see what similar era ones I might have.

#5 9 years ago

Yep ordered a schematic today there just happened to be one on eBay thank God.

#6 9 years ago

Pinball Resource would have had it for $16.50, FWIW.

http://pbresource.com/mansch.html

#7 9 years ago

That's cool I got it for $20. Pretty close

#8 9 years ago

Oops, this is a multi-player, and I was automatically thinking woodrail with five balls in it.

I think since this is a two-player game, this actually has a ball count unit, and only uses one ball. So the ball gate coil stays active until the last ball has been played. Otherwise there's no way to control which ball is in play for which player. With just one ball, and a ball count, the game keeps the gate open to let the ball keep passing until after the last ball for the one or two players has drained.

So try it with just one ball, and expect that the gate should stay open until after the last ball for the last player has drained. Then see what's not working with that perspective.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Oops, this is a multi-player, and I was automatically thinking woodrail with five balls in it.
I think since this is a two-player game, this actually has a ball count unit, and only uses one ball. So the ball gate coil stays active until the last ball has been played. Otherwise there's no way to control which ball is in play for which player. With just one ball, and a ball count, the game keeps the gate open to let the ball keep passing until after the last ball for the one or two players has drained.
So try it with just one ball, and expect that the gate should stay open until after the last ball for the last player has drained. Then see what's not working with that perspective.

Will do thanks!

#10 9 years ago

Update yes that works fine in both one and two player without failure. All I need to look at now is why the game won't start up again after a "game over." I suspect relay "H" (tilt relay) might be the problem but will look at it now.

Let this be a case study in "don't trust the number of balls an owner has in a machine." No wonder it didn't work!

Will update on the final problem when I find it.

Thanks again Dirt Flipper I knew it would be something easy and stupid.

#11 9 years ago

It's probably a normally closed switch on the Start relay (SB).

When the game is powered off, one of the hold relays (R) is off, and a closed switch there is able to provide the path via the replay button to the replay relay. When that happens, the coin chute relay (K) activates, which completes the path to the transformer, which then allows R to activate and keep the transformer path activate (which is why it's the hold relay).

But, with R now active, that closed switch is open, and the replay button path has to instead go via a normally closed switch on SB. So after the game is over and the power is still on, that's the path that needs to work to start the next game.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

It's probably a normally closed switch on the Start relay (SB).
When the game is powered off, one of the hold relays (R) is off, and a closed switch there is able to provide the path via the replay button to the replay relay. When that happens, the coin chute relay (K) activates, which completes the path to the transformer, which then allows R to activate and keep the transformer path activate (which is why it's the hold relay).
But, with R now active, that closed switch is open, and the replay button path has to instead go via a normally closed switch on SB. So after the game is over and the power is still on, that's the path that needs to work to start the next game.

This was exactly the problem. Start relay SB had a switch with a wire hanging by a thread. Pulled and stripped it, soldered it back on and the machine works like a champ now.

Nice work Dirt Flipper! When we meet at Chicago Expo next year I'm buying!!!

#13 9 years ago

Glad you were able to get it sorted out!

#14 9 years ago

Got a long way to go to master EM repair, especially these old woodies. It's only my 3rd, and the first that was a multi player. The one ball thing really threw me, btw. Glad you bailed me out of that one...

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