(Topic ID: 269502)

Teachers Pet Legs


By mojonitro

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by gottliebgreg
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 months ago

My legs look pretty bad, and I'm confused (normal for me). My existing legs are 25" non-ribbed on the front, and 28.5" ribbed on the back, and they look painted, not plated. PBR says 31" painted legs all the way around. If I go that way, I'll struggle to get much pitch on the playfield. I have the back legs all the way up now, and the front levelers all the way down. Can anyone steer me to the correct legs for this machine?

#2 3 months ago

They are definitely longer in the back. Very hard to find set. Just scrape off any loose paint or rust, paint them with Rustoleum Hammered Silver paint and replace the levelers with nice new ones.

#3 3 months ago

You have the correct legs for your machine. Technically the rears wouldn't be ribbed but the height is correct. Be grateful, the 25" legs are very hard to find. If they look bad you can sand and repaint them to freshen them up.

#4 3 months ago

I had an auto body shop blast a set of legs for me. It was $20. Dropped them off one day and picked them up the next.

Then I primed and painted.

#5 3 months ago

Thank you all! This site is tremendous.
I'll be blasting and painting this week.

#6 3 months ago
Quoted from mojonitro:

My existing legs are 25" non-ribbed on the front, and 28.5" ribbed on the back, and they look painted, not plated.

According to the Williams 1966 parts book at http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=BOOK
Teacher's Pet used plated legs. 22" in the rear, 18 1/2" in the front.
Note the "single player alpine club forward" Alpine Club was March of 1965, Teacher's Pet was December of 1965.
TeachersPetLegs (resized).png

#7 3 months ago

That's interesting. PBR nor the Williams manual have it correct. The drop front Williams cabs definitely used 25" in front and 28.5" in the back. I have had a few of them and the lock down bar height lined up correctly with other eras and manufacturers with correct legs.

#8 3 months ago
Quoted from AlexF:

PBR nor the Williams manual have it correct. The drop front Williams cabs definitely used 25" in front and 28.5" in the back. I have had a few of them and the lock down bar height lined up correctly with other eras and manufacturers with correct legs.

It wouldn't be the first time factory documentation was incorrect. Any idea how to answer mojonitro definitively? Is there a 'leg guide' somewhere? The Pinwiki leg article seems rather incomplete.

#9 3 months ago

Geez you try to help out an Em brother and get downvoted?

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#10 3 months ago

Just checked my Teachers Pet
25" in front and 28.5" in back
Lockdown bar is about correct height when compared side by side
with my GTB Cover Girl and next to BLY Odds&Evens.
My legs happen to be painted red ( not sure if that is original)
Important note is the 3.5in difference is in leg height between front and rear.

My guess is that WMS Pitch&Bat games also used different length legs in front and back
and maybe it is a cut&paste (editing) error when printing the catalog
and someone did not realize there were two different staggered leg sizes
for pins vs baseball games??
The same error was carried thru to the 1969 WMS parts catalog that I have.
(Side note: Legs are now $5.12 ea)
The same catalog is also listing the leg length on standard single player (Big Strike forward)
and multi-player pins (Casanova forward) as having 22in legs;
which we know is not correct.

#11 3 months ago
Quoted from AlexF:

PBR nor the Williams manual have it correct. The drop front Williams cabs definitely used 25" in front and 28.5" in the back. I have had a few of them and the lock down bar height lined up correctly with other eras and manufacturers with correct legs.

If the 22" & 18 1/2" listed in the documentation is an error it's one that's repeated in the 1969 catalog. Some of the games in that catalog list four 22" legs, others list shorter in the front.

How do you tell definitively which legs the factory installed? You've mentioned, "I have had a few of them and the lock down bar height lined up correctly with other eras and manufacturers with correct legs." How did you determine what lockdown bar height was correct? Did all manufacturers standardize on a specific height and if so where is this documented?

I'm not saying you're wrong alexf , just looking to source factual information for future readers of the thread.

#12 3 months ago

I appreciate the Williams manuals posted on Planetary Pinball, I refer to them often. With that said just because it's in print doesn't mean it's correct. The 25" are hard to come by but I have never seen an 18.5" or 22" leg in my time collecting pinball. The exception could be the P&Bs as Tom mentioned.

I've owned the following drop front Williams games.
Lucky Strike
Teacher's Pet (x3)
Full House

All had the 25"/28.5" configuration.

#13 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

I'm not saying you're wrong alexf , just looking to source factual information for future readers of the thread

Alex is stating fact. The book is wrong. I have a teacher's pet right here with Factory legs on it to verify.

#14 3 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

Alex is stating fact. The book is wrong. I have a teacher's pet right here with Factory legs on it to verify.

How did you determine it has "factory" legs? If we're going to correct the error let's provide evidence to back it up.

pinwiztom 's explanation seems the most likely. It would be good to document the error in the Pinwiki if we can determine it's actually an error and what the correct leg size is.

Interesting that https://www.flippers.be/basics/101_pinball_leg_length.html doesn't mention 18 1/2" or 22" legs either, but it also doesn't mention anything before 1966.

#15 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

How did you determine it has "factory" legs?

The guy I bought it from has a whole row of Williams machines from the same era and is an expert. He told me that these are the correct Factory legs and I saw it standing in a lineup of games with similar legs all standing the same height. Not to mention that 18 inch legs would basically make this a cocktail machine.

#16 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

pinwiztom 's explanation seems the most likely.

That explanation may not hold water.
Even though in my WMS '69 Catalog, in the Baseball game section,
it does apparently erroneously also lists two sized legs 22" and 18.5"
Only 3 WMS Baseball games had the drop down front (in 1965 & 66)
that would require the different sized front/rear legs.
Double Play and Big League and Pitch & Bat.
I regret making that wrong assumption about P&B games.
More likely the dept putting the catalog together created the error,
never caught it or corrected it and just perpetuated it in each following release.

#17 3 months ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

That explanation may not hold water.
Even though in my WMS '69 Catalog, in the Baseball game section,
it does apparently erroneously also lists two sized legs 22" and 18.5"
Only 3 WMS Baseball games had the drop down front (in 1965 & 66)
that would require the different sized front/rear legs.
Double Play and Big League and Pitch & Bat

Wayner has a Double Play. I wish he'd chime in.

Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Interesting that https://www.flippers.be/basics/101_pinball_leg_length.html doesn't mention 18 1/2" or 22" legs either, but it also doesn't mention anything before 1966.

Flippers says Williams 1966 - 1987: flat chrome, 27 inch, later ribbed until half.
PBR says 28.5" for 66-87.

All kinds of conflicting information out there. But PBR is correct this time.

PBR says 31" for Williams 56-66. Obviously that's not true on the drop fronts. And I don't think it's true at all except for a possibly few early woodrails with wood legs.

You really want to hang your hat on that 1966, 1969 Williams manual but it's just plain wrong. Think about an 18.5" leg with enough room to bolt to the cabinet. It would be like a foot off the ground.

#18 3 months ago

delete / ignore this post

#19 3 months ago
Quoted from AlexF:

You really want to hang your hat on that 1966, 1969 Williams manual

No. I want good evidence to support the correct answer.

I do find it a little odd that with all the conflicting leg info out there none of it mentions the Williams parts list has an error.

#20 3 months ago

I’ve been following this thread with much interest because it has taken me a long time (and a non trivial amount of cash) to finally get the correct legs on our Williams full house.

What if you’re all right?
The Williams document doesn’t give us a mechanical drawing, so we don’t know where the length is measured. I just measured from the bottom of the leg to the bottom of the cabinet on full house.

The measurements match the catalog. 18.5 on the front and 22 on the rear. The length we would normally call these legs are 25” and 28.5” respectively.

Dave

#21 3 months ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

it has taken me a long time (and a non trivial amount of cash) to finally get the correct legs on our Williams full house.

How did you determine you have the right legs? Sounds like you've done the research.

#22 3 months ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Wayner has a Double Play. I wish he'd chime in.

Flippers says Williams 1966 - 1987: flat chrome, 27 inch, later ribbed until half.
PBR says 28.5" for 66-87.
All kinds of conflicting information out there. But PBR is correct this time.
PBR says 31" for Williams 56-66. Obviously that's not true on the drop fronts. And I don't think it's true at all except for a possibly few early woodrails with wood legs.
You really want to hang your hat on that 1966, 1969 Williams manual but it's just plain wrong. Think about an 18.5" leg with enough room to bolt to the cabinet. It would be like a foot off the ground.

Not something I have given much consideration to Alex. My Double Play has 25 1/2in legs all round with the back legs on max leg bolt and front min. Thats how it was when I purchased it prior to the resto and thats how it will probably stay. I have no alignment issues with other machines. Whilst I certainly respect and try to sustain machine originality and authenticity I frankly and honestly do not extend that commitment to applying a strict evidentiary course.

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#23 3 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

How did you determine you have the right legs? Sounds like you've done the research.

I determined it by searching other threads on this and other internet pinball sites along with the empirical data of using every combination of 31”, 28.5, and 27” legs and finally locating a pair of the elusive 25” drop front legs. The combination of the 28.5” rear and 25” inch front legs provide a height that matches my other Williams and Gottlieb machines along with a proper pitch for good gameplay. Yesterday I measured the distance from the bottom of the cabinet to the folded portion of the leg, where the leveler screws in, and obtained the measurements that were listed in the Williams book.

Good enough for me.

Dave

#24 3 months ago

Good enough for me, too. I can't thank you all enough for the research and vetting work.
As soon as these monsoons stop, I'm blasting and painting legs.
To add to my one set of data, I originally measured from the folded bottom to the top of the legs to get 25" and 28.5".
If I measure from the folded bottom to the cabinet, I get 18.5" and 22".
Jim

#25 3 months ago

Here's a Williams 8 Ball, drop cab style I just finished restoring. I had a local welder convert 31s to 25 inchers in front (28.5 in back) while the original set is at the chromers for a redo. It lines up well with my Gottlieb 31s and 27s

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#26 3 months ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

I’ve been following this thread with much interest because it has taken me a long time (and a non trivial amount of cash) to finally get the correct legs on our Williams full house.
What if you’re all right?
The Williams document doesn’t give us a mechanical drawing, so we don’t know where the length is measured. I just measured from the bottom of the leg to the bottom of the cabinet on full house.
The measurements match the catalog. 18.5 on the front and 22 on the rear. The length we would normally call these legs are 25” and 28.5” respectively.
Dave

That’s proof for me.

Past topics concluded the height of the front of games was nominally 36”. This should help workout the length of what any games legs should be.

#27 3 months ago
Quoted from mojonitro:

Good enough for me, too. I can't thank you all enough for the research and vetting work.
As soon as these monsoons stop, I'm blasting and painting legs.
To add to my one set of data, I originally measured from the folded bottom to the top of the legs to get 25" and 28.5".
If I measure from the folded bottom to the cabinet, I get 18.5" and 22".
Jim

I think mojonitro nailed it. It's matter of how the legs are dimensioned. I modified an old set of wico to 25" and the game sits at the right height. Anybody know the correct color?

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