It's an unlimited run. Only a limited edition would be worth buying 2

Positive spin on the crap situation: may be more limited than it was previously I do think post pre order orders will be interesting.. Is a 9k game going to really sell like hot cakes after all this and when you have to pay $9k all at once.. Even when it is immediately available?

Technically I am still in. I requested refunds for both units. I likely won't be staying out but I would like to see that they have the ability to refund my money and at that time if I feel comfortable with how they have handled the refund and where the new payments will be going then I will be right back in. I think the current situation is crap, but it's not enough to get me to wash my hands of such an awesome project. Let's see if they can process the refund, set up an actual account and then I will resubmit my payments.

I'm in the same boat.

I would have liked to seen an option for "I'm out but will buy when one is produced."

Those who will buy when produced, why don't just put the money back in to make sure it is produced..

Those who expect to withdraw their money, hold on to their production number with the lower price and with all the extras.. Are taking the piss! Phil is the boy who cried wolf and everyone panicked...where are your balls!!

If it ever gets made, that's what I'm angling to do.

I'm in it until the end.

I'm just hoping a few of those 20 people on the list before me have bailed so I can play sooner!

What day is this? Fuck it dude......I'm in

I want to be in on this, but I'm on the fence right now. I did not receive a refund from Phil and did not request one or file a paypal dispute right away. After following the thread for a couple of days I decided to check my order status on the TBL website. It showed that my first two payments had been reversed. I checked PayPal and my credit card and there was nothing showing a refund had been initiated. I then placed a dispute on paypal as Barry had suggested in his original email when everything started. It was immediately closed due to the charge being greater than 45 days old, so I opened an unauthorized charge dispute and contacted my credit card company. I won't be retrying the previous payments or making the next one until I get the refund on my card. I contacted Barry and let him know my situation and he understood and agreed not to retry the payments until I actually receive a refund. I hope I don't lose my place in line or the extra benefits, but if I do I'll just wait until the game is being built and buy then.

In since Expo and still in

In this model, if you don't pre order, they won't be made. So you're supporting the entire venture.

Until I see those that want out getting their refunds, I'll stay out. I've read of too many people wanting out and so far being ignored. DP needs to take care of their preorder buyers now! That'll make me have more confindence in DP from this point on.

It just seems like a bookkeeping nightmare at this point. Barry, says Phil will handle all refunds. Even though you might have made early payments or not into the USA account.

Love the theme, but will now wait until games are actually being produced.

In. With a grin.

Real Dudes keep things cool and stay in...

- I think the believers won't regret to keep the panic out the door and stay in till the end.

Where there's smoke there's fire.... I'm out.

Still in.

When they produce it, clear out all the BS, I'll be in, I'm happy to wait at the end of the line.

I don't think you read it correctly then. Phil said he would forgo all future earnings. I don't recall him saying he was going to give up the money already invested into the company. If what you said was the case then I don't see Phil going quite so Nuclear if this was just holding onto other peoples money in the form of deposits at DP USA. I saw him instead as a sick man who has ALL of his own money invested in this company and if he dies tomorrow what has he left for his family but debt. He wanted out and wants his money he invested back out of the company. I see this as a real problem if he still has control over whatever funds might be left in DP USA he can hold it hostage until someone steps in to repay him his investment so he can leave the company.

At this point, why would anyone keep a pre-order when it's not a limited run pin? What do you have to lose by getting your pre-order refunded and then buying one after seeing the final product??

That's not what I took from Phil's tirade. From what I remember he talked of using his own money somewhere in the 10s of thousands and said that Barry and company could keep it but just get his ssn and name off the company.

$500, a rug, chrome rails, legs and lockdown bar. Im not thinking thats worth the gamble. At this point its gonna have to be half down now and full payment upon my game being produced. It is still a lot to risk but would basically help ease the fear. We will find out what DP wants to do sometime soon im sure.

I'd like to add the first red flag was that they couldn't even deliver on the t-shirts

which was Phil's responsibility

Here are his quotes where he mentions what he's willing to give up

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-usa-refund-still-want-the-game?tu=Phil-DP-USA

"I even agreed to give up ALL the profits of both businesses. That's how much I want to get the hell away from this thing."

"I paid for bride kits because I care about DP's reputation, and because they are my friends."
"I paid in an extra €20,000 because I want TBL to succeed, and because they are my friends."
"I walked away from one third of the profits because it's best for all of us,"

------------------------------------------------------
OK Here is where he might have said to keep it ALL
-------------------------------------------------------------

"What would you do, if you went into a legitimate business with your friends, investing about $100'000, and a year's worth of (pretty darned good) free labor. You then found out they were doing something illegal. You try to talk them out of it, but they keep doing it. You scream, stop, but they keep doing it. You say fine, I quit, keep the profits, KEEP THE MONEY (emphasis is mine to highlight this phrase), just please take my name off the business so I don't get in trouble if you get caught. They don't."

"I've already said they can keep the profits. If they need the money, they can keep everything in PayPal."

"If I didn't keep the PayPal login (because my Social Security Number is on it), I'd have absolutely nothing -- but I would still be liable for the company. "

"I can legally close a PayPal account with a zero balance. If I give everyone their money back, they can repurchase through Barry's new PayPal account. I just don't want the liability."

So in retrospect, it's still hard to tell, but it does seem like he was willing to forgo both future profits and money already invested to get rid of the debt of the deposit money.

Hello, if you don't get it then what can you say?

People will rationalize whatever they want to believe while ignoring the facts/smoke

I've got no horse in this race, so I have no interest swaying me one way or the other in this story. I just find it hard to believe that he would be giving up everything already invested just to get the debt off of his responsibility, and we are only getting one side of the story to exactly what happened/what he wanted/agreed to. And for many posts first he simply said he was giving up the future profits and it wasn't until 20 or so posts in before he makes one mention of giving up more.

So if it is 100% true that he really is willing to forgo everything including all sunk money, then like Kevin said there really had to be something seriously wrong with the company and or partners to have to take the Nuclear Option that he did.

wrong button

Well, it may be perspective.. in that rant he was very concerned about the license getting taken away.. seeing stuff in NYC was the last straw that caused the scorched earth.

Yet, days later and we have Roger Sharpe saying "I'm a band-aid, not a tourniquet" after he had talked to Universal himself ... so..

"liability".....

Getting rid of it despite "sunk money". Red flags?

Maybe they turn it around but it will be after its done for me and I'll happily pay extra for whatever holy grail they create.

DP really need to set a deadline for people who got a refund to re-submit their pre-order payment... with no deadline, the people who did get a refund from Phil have no incentive at all to get back in... they basically have a ´have your cake and eat it´ ticket...

Anyway, I´m in... I almost got freaked by the panic, but after some reflection I decided it was probably nothing more than that... I feel confident that we will get past this... It´s a shame that Phil decided to initiate such panic, and from what I can tell, it has cost DP about 50% of their orders (going on this pole), I just don´t want to be part of the reasn that this ship loses steam, or even sinks! I pre-ordered for a reason, and the reason is still here.

Well if they set the deadline to less than 30 days then I'm out since my money is on a 30 day hold to get back to my card, and who's fault is it? Dutch Pinball. They need a new incentive to get the people out, back and to keep the ones in, happy. My suggestion is half due now and not have to pay the rest till our games are built. If you want to pay off your game early you can. I'm sure they are trying to find the best solution to maximize the amount of people that preorder. I think 40 to 50 percent of us arent willing to risk $8500 after this fiasco.

For now I want my money back in my hands and I'll decide what to do from there.

MarkCuban.jpg

out for now. will wait to see how this unfolds.

OK I'm a little in the dark here, didn't even know there was drama, can I get a quick run down on what has happened?

Summary in podcast form:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-coast-2-coast-pinball-episodes-one-thread-all-listed-here/page/6#post-2111868

If you are in on the game though, you should of gotten some emails from Barry over the last week.

I'm not personally the arcade down the street ordered one, think I'll visit and talk to the owner about it.
Thanks for that, by the way.

I have a friend who knows my cousin who knows a guy that might be buying one...

Good to see ther me way more believers than non-believers... From the 137 votes till now there are 33 more than RTR's thread... Those magical three dozen extra "orders" are most likely to down-vote since they have no skin in the game and have just the agenda to troll around...

That's the problem with the "other" thread(s). A lot of water cooler quarterbacks (or lawyers) giving their 2 cents, yet they don't have any action in the game.

With a $2000 payment due in a week or so for those who are still in looming, I think that DP could get more people to jump in and keep more of those that are in from jumping ship by suspending payments after the $4500 deposit. They could make the balance due when games are ready to ship, that should give DP plenty of working capital and insure the preorder guys have skin in the game as well.

Is RTR's list a definitive list of all buyers?? If so he should share this with Phil so things can move forward.

Definitely still in

Has anyone from the Netherlands actually asked for a refund and gotten one since the debacle? I'd suspect that anyone from the Netherlands (and the rest of Europe for that matter) really doesn't have any other choice but to say "I'm still in"... Technically, all the people who weren't automatically refunded by Phil are "still in"

I don't think so... First of all; the peeps who got Phil-kicked are not out. They can easily jump in by redepositing. Only the ones who directly ask for a refund / order cancellation are out. They need to queue at the far back of the line when they later on decide to jump in again.

Ok, so only a subset of the people Phil refunded are "definitely" out... Still has anyone asked for a refund from the Netherland's branch of Dutch PB and actually received it? I'm just curious whether they are honoring their refund policy...

I'm still in on the pin.

In since Expo and still in Dude!

Your money is being held by a kid named Larry Sellers. Real fucking brat, but I'm sure your goons can get it off him. I mean, he's fifteen.