what if item 6 was bowling alley kind of thing?
(Topic ID: 85390)
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The Big Lebowski
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#2 sort of looks like the shape of jackie treehorns house perched above the beach to me. or at least, in my dreams about the game that's what it should be 
Since they are making a real rug for all us pre-order people (last months announcement) then the rug doesn't need to be #6.. would rather that be lower playfield. Plus it's not a rectangle.
and kudos for releasing their playfield concepts early! it shouldn't be the last thing to reveal.. even if there's a lot of changes (get to see the evolution)
We're all assuming that there's no inserts because this is just to see how it plays / adjust things right? unless #6 really is a display but you can't/shouldn't do everything with a display.
yeah it's posted elsewhere (and last month's newsletter) that they are designing a custom rug for preorder-ers with all kinds of lebowski iconography
rug newsletter here : http://tinyurl.com/pvfm3p3
Quoted from Rarehero:I know...I hate the idea of pre-paying for something that's years out....but I know I'll buy it once finished....soooo....glarghghghghhh....
Did you not see that Bunny's toe is woven inside that rug? How can you let that pass?
Quoted from jazzmaster:EDIT: May have answered my own question. Looks like this guy will be responsible for the playfield and translight:
http://www.freekvanhaagen.nl/
Looks like the artwork is a lock!
Hmm.. Dunno. Id feel better if there was an example there of something less disney/fairy princess and more dirty/dusty Los Angeles forgotten bowling alley. A hand drawn cartoon version of TBL would still have to jive with the F-word being used 260 times..
2 weeks later
I would not hate this, I'm sure there's a million other things to do with the center space.. but if it was a mirror under some plexiglass angled to show your own face back to you. Might be hard to do though give people are different heights and machines at different angles (maybe adjustments under playfield?). Anyway.. fits the part at least 
1 month later
yeah #4 feels like it could be a ball return mech but reversed more like a lock.
Would they use the playfield ball / subway or have a black (or purple/jesus style) captured ball down there i wonder.
maybe but it's still their 3D model.. may just be colorized (looking to left and right you still see the mystery blocks). However, it does seem like bowling alley exterior is a likely choice for up there.
A standup target covered by mystery block #8 . I wish there was evidence of drop downs here somewhere, I do like those
There are pop bumpers (bowling ball covers). Flow yeah, depends on how often you go down there. Acdc has lower play field and strikes a good balance
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Agreed, but ACDC has the flippers for fast moving ball action on the lower playfield ... versus what appears to be a swiveling "shooter" where you simply launch the ball at the pins when ready?
The bowling alley was simply a backdrop setting in the movie ... versus being a central theme like in a movie like Kingpin for example. So not sure how crazy I am about it yet (again ... YET.)
Thats fair. I hesitate to point out that acdc also has a swiveling cannon in addition to the lower play field. 
. So, guess I'm at least glass half full.. I don't think those play field elements necessarily dictate flow, but will admit they don't put points on the board FOR flow. It will never be an ACDC for flow, but I'm OK with that.
We do know its heavily mode based, and has a lot of toys (still have no clue what #3 is). There are a few top games like TZ, TAF that are like that. Yeah Whitewater is comparison point too.
The movie is paced out stop and go and would expect game to carry the movie vibe. Plenty of chill moments, and then frantic moments (marmot bathtub, undie bag drop off, loose roach on the lap, stay out of Malibu lebowski, nihilist fight / car death, mark it zero!, Larry's homework).
It was posted 1 page back on this thread, plus in the no shit newsletter for purchasers. but apology accepted.
Watching the video again.. I am wondering what the true play field angle is going to look like. In their animation and in the mockup test, they had a camera down in the lower playfield. When looking down from standing height.. sort of wondering what's going to be visible (at least in rendering, the window is pretty close to the flippers so will be a pretty steep sightline). I like in the animation they sort of implied mirrored sides to the lower playfield giving the impression of additional bowling lanes.. may just be the animation, but kinda cool too (though, I'm thinking this would be impossible to mimic from the standing up angle).
Also, technically... the dude is never seen actually bowling in the movie. However, bowling is the entire backdrop of the movie.. it is 110% ok to have it as a core element like this.
Quoted from jazzmaster:I really like the playfield but I am starting to have some concerns. Let me first say that these my be completely unfounded as they are based on very little information. After watching the vid several dozen times now, I am a bit worried about how the mech is going to work. In the prototype footage, It looks like the pins are just arbitrarily raising when the ball strikes a certain spot. And isn't this the only way this could work given the fixed nature of the pins. In real bowling, throwing a strike depends on many factors, not the least of which are the physics involved in the random scattering of the free moving pins. My concern is that the only way a "strike" will be possible with fixed pins is if the ball hits a specific pin that is programmed to then raise the rest of the pins. If that is the case, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, then the sub-playfield will get old pretty quick as there can't possibly be that much distance between the cannon and the pins, making the shot very easy to learn and repeat. Again, not trying to crap on the concept and DP may have this all worked out, just some thoughts.
EM Ball bowlers, puck bowlers seem to make this concept work so assume they can leverage all that as far as knocking down enough pins.
As far as repeatability of shots given its a canon on a short track.. NGG has a very repeatable fixed cannon shot but it is rare enough that I still find it entertaining. So a canon that moves still adds some skill (like acdc). But we'll see I guess.
18" would be generous I think just based on the photos.. imagining more like 8". As long as they don't cut something else cause they spent too much time messing with the bowler getting it to work then more interactive toys then better. Since they have it working in prototype 1 year before shipping, I'm stoked.
gotcha.. I didn't know there were even contact ones.. I thought they were all leaf switch based Learn something new.
To me, I feel it is a pinball machine first and foremost and authentic feeling bowling action will be pretty low on how i judge the machine I guess so hard to relate to your concern, but understand what you are saying.
I might be more worried about having a contact one because you have a pinball (heavy) against pencil thin plastic pins.. I could only imagine the trouble of taking apart the system to replace a pin
Oh OK sorry.. I read your comments like bowling fidelity was a critical flaw / would be something that could change your mind about game as whole. Prob cause I've been reading too many other polarized threads around here. Glad TBL is staying civil so far and normal trouble makers haven't shown up. Really really hope I didn't jinx it.
BTW the big lebowski (the movie, not the pinball machine) facebook just posted a cartoon illustration from an artist (NOT the TBL pinball artist) so, it has zero to do with the pinball machine art but.. playing devils advocate for a minute.. if this was the art style chosen, what do people think?
I would not be a fan of this.. it's a little too disney/animation. It's a fine line between us complaining about photo shopped art from the movie vs overly cartoony given the whole tone of the movie.
doesn't hurt my feelings chadderack, I didn't care for it either I however am falling into love with the style of the Tyler Stout poster I posted afterwards
So what I guess I'm seeing in my own preferences is that they can be illustrated like these guys are doing, but not turned into cartoon characters / animated series (like what was on FB post). Does that make sense?
Apologize for multiple posts today that may trick people into thinking something cool was announced today. 
Yeah.. When I look at that guys website I get a little scared cause no examples of the stuff I am liking 
Very kiddie / cartoon everywhere. Hoping he can rise to occasion
Quoted from burningman:from the DP TBL about us page:
Freek van Haagen
Freek is a true artist. He is a professional illustrator, specializing in character design and animation (3D and 2D). Freek is responsible for the translite and the artwork on the playfield
Have they posted anything yet? The FB thing I linked wasn't from DP, but from the TBL official universal studios FB stream.. And the artist was mentioned and wasn't Freek.
But yeah my motivation for bringing this up is precisely cause we haven't seen it yet, and wanted to get some consensus (hah, on pinside?) Of what we liked out in the open so if theres a chance to influence we can.
Quoted from taz:Hopefully, they'll put out close examples of what they're leaning towards and gauge our interest in threads like this. That may be the case with their first posted pic. It's a miss, obviously, but thanks to this thread they should already start to see what we like.
Quoted from RTR:I didn't see anything on that site that remotely approaches the artwork that this game should have. Yikes.
Yeah while the candy land is sort of extreme, the guy seems talented but seems to have consistent style that is just not right when compared to the things I do really like
Quoted from taz:Sorry, by the way the thread was trending I thought the drawing of the Dude and Walter bowling were pulled off of a DP-related site.
No worries. Yeah they haven't posted anything I know of to hint at art direction, other than artist which unfortunately is a little concerning
Quoted from kvan99:Yes...I hope hge can change it up to look more adult like the Stout guy...seriously this could kill it for me.
Yeah me too... And I so want this game. The Tyler stout style seems perfect. His poster collage also hits all the right notes too.. It would really tie the pin together
Quoted from PinPatch:Freek has skills look at the justus section on his homepage.
I'm guessing he will pull out all stops as this machine will give him an international viewing of his talents.
OK Yeah the Justus stuff has some elements that could work. That movie is definitely adult / a bit heavy for first thing in the morning (PSA against sex trafficing of minors). And I don't want my comments to sound like I don't like the guys work, his stuff looks awesome. Just wishing I could look at his portfolio there and see some styles that seem TBL appropriate.
Yep. I will leave it at that something in the vein of Tyler Stout TBL poster style/collage elements is what would be "outstanding" for me. Not saying I won't like something else but as far as existing takes on TBL out in the wild right now, that's "it". Yesterday I saw an example of something I really didn't like (the unrelated cartoon) so thought useful to chat about what we like or don't.
Quoted from navajas:I'm going to go out on a limb and posit that he'll approach the Lebowski commission a little differently than the pretty princess candy factory job.
True. Picked that out as a extreme example. However, if you peruse his entire online portfolio there is a certain style that seems to carry through that is more animated cartoon (like pretty princess candy factory) than the stuff I am finding that I like (more line art I guess). I am no artist so I don't know how easy or hard it is to switch gears. The Justus public service announcement on there gets pretty close though and i didn't see that originally.
I would however easily trust this artist to do kick ass BBB2
BTW here's the March 25th NSNL just cause it pertains.. so yeah whatever is done is done at this point, short of universal wanting to negotiate some points.
A First Look Just for You! -We’ve sent the cabinet design, translite, and several other images to Universal for approval, and received an email that they are reviewing our latest submissions today. We realize that it has taken longer than we had expected, and we are very sorry for the delay. In addition to the normal approval channels, we have to get “positional approval” from talent to make sure we’re not putting a character in the wrong place. We’re being extra cautious because we don’t want to do anything to jeopardize the license (or piss off the actors).
3 weeks later
yeah i wouldn't read too much into the play field scheme just yet as they can paint things any way they want in the rendering software.
What would be cool, but probably a maintenance nightmare is if the liquid drained out and in via some kind of pump or solenoid activated syringe.
Never mind, see below: I missed the video link. I love lamp.
Quoted from Mr68:I received the same email and its gotta be just for fun. Air balls could get trapped in it.
Kim
I dunno.. It is clearly in mystery spot #5. I'm sure if the ice / liquid was a bit closer to the rim / ice sticking out a hair above the rim in actuality, it can keep airballs out. Hopefully it doesnt end up behind a giant sneeze guard.
Quoted from genex:can anyone see what's going on at the end of the video? Feel like there might be something there but I'm off to PHX in a sec!
Yeah I looked too but .. prob a back glass.. but.. yeah who knows. Just trying to mess with us I say . If it is a TBL backglass, not a color pallet I would of guessed from the impressionist painting we have here. I am thinking back now to the original viral flyer print out that was very 'rug' color .. reds/purples. Hrm. As a rorschach test, I'd say cactus canyon.
Quoted from burningman:Barry and Jaap are testing the effects of the White Russian on a WOZ Playfield.
Ah so the wizard also likes his caucasians. At least it would help with GI
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:IN CASE the guys from DP are here fieldtesting as the picture shows... that rises some intriguing questions! First of all WHY testing on a WOZ? DP has several machines of their own to test on. So there seems to be need to test 'something' on a JJP machine, right?!
So, COULD it be (although BOP 2.0 comes with P-ROC) The Big Lebowski pinball will be based on JJP's fundamentals? JJP's cabinet (but regular size), cabinet components, computer architecture & probably LCD style display?!?
IOW why inventing the wheel twice if you could pick some high quality items from the market?
Jack has mentioned several times the is willing to help out other pinball ventures, so why not by selling the basics of the JPP platform? Win win situation for both DP and JJP!
Tying your fate to JJP seems like a bad move ihmo. I agree with all your points about reuse however.
Quoted from r6emperor:What was the number on the jersey in your email?
69.. assume everyones is?
it would be pretty expensive for them to ship a prototype over from the Netherlands I would think. Maybe pieces and parts they can put in their luggage.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:"or give us a backdoor to change music. (with the code being written that if an Eagles tune is brought into the system, it will crash, never be able to recover, and the legs fall off) "
Even though its using a P-ROC there is no guarantee you will be able to change things. They may have to agree to protect the IP due to the licensing. They haven't said either way for BOP 2.0 or this one if the interpreted code will be used and source won't be given..... Music files though could be added if they are the same filename unless they want to archive them in some format and unarchive them on the fly, which I doubt.
It seems like the one of the primary things that lead to the FAST Pinball guys existing is that P-ROC didn't have good IP protection, so hopefully they stick with P-ROC if it lets us put together the "correct" music for the game.
I know Jeff Bridges and the Abiders do a cover of The Man in Me.. that wouldn't be horrible, but I guess the lyrics still need to be licensed? I don't know anything about this stuff Interesting to see that hotel california isn't even the eagles version
http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Lebowski-Original-Soundtrack/dp/B000001EYO
1. The Man In Me - Bob Dylan
2. Her Eyes Are A Blue Million Miles - Captain Beefheart
3. My Mood Swings - Elvis Costello
4. Ataypura - Yma Sumac
5. Traffic Boom - Piero Piccioni
6. I Got It Bad And That Ain't Good - Nina Simone
7. Stamping Ground - Moondog With Orchestra
8. Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In) - Kenny Rogers And The First Edition
9. Walking Song - Meredith Monk
10. Die Tote Standt - Gluck Das Mir Verblieb
11. Lujon - Henry Mancini
12. Hotel California - Gipsy Kings
13. Technopop - Carter Burwell
14. Dead Flowers - Townes Van Zandt
yeah guess left out of the soundtrack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbling_Tumbleweeds
Here's the self proclaimed "Definitive guide to the music of the big lebowski"
http://www.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2013/03/07/the-definitive-guide-to-the-music-of-the-big-lebowski
just realized the soundrack had no CCR in it either! lame
Quoted from burningman:Yes! Marty made the cut!
You think I'm fucking around here? mark it zero.
Does anyone get the Dutch Spinners magazine? Google translate seems to indicate "latest issue July" so that would imply its out now? They were teasing they would have some stuff
i got nothing on the sneak preview toy. It looks like a rope. I could only hope it has something to do with a Jesus ball cleaning station or dude's car bash toy.
Quoted from genex:Feel like you can tell more from the main image in the magazine:
yeah that helps to start to see somethings filling in. the bowling alley is cool.. this updated playfield angle from players few does highlight something that they will be challenged by is how to actually see the pins under the solid playfield.. maybe it actually gets mounted at a downhill angle... maybe it doesn't even fire the ball, just lets it go into a pretty steep downhill slope so can see the pins / brunswick logo, closer to the camera angle view (prob can't match it exactly though). If they have it level like a real alley.. probably could make the back row of pins pure virtual / sensor only cause you'd never be able to see them
Quoted from genex:don't worry - the west coast is represented well
See, they call Los Angeles the "City Of Angels"; but I didn't find it to be that, exactly. But I'll allow it as there are some nice folks there. 'Course I ain't never been to London, and I ain't never seen France. And I ain't never seen no queen in her damned undies, so the feller says. But I'll tell you what - after seeing Los Angeles, and this here story I'm about to unfold, well, I guess I seen somethin' every bit as stupefyin' as you'd seen in any of them other places. And in English, too.
I do hope they make your schedule as I think it may be what's needed to hit their Q2 target.. Cause the last 20% of a project always takes the longest. I am wondering if they have sold enough to cross the border into needing a real assembly line / training of personnel or will it be small enough to do it with who they have now. Kinda hoping for the latter.. But if they keep knocking it out of the park they may grow into the former , which would be quite a challenge I think.
1 week later
Man I'm stoked.. I feel of all the new efforts currently under way to take a risk on, I'm glad I'm on this one
OK i am thinking the metal bracket is actually the launch path for the ball, plus ball going down hill and returning to the trough from which it started.
In order to see the pins, the bowling alley is going to have to be slanted down hill. So what I am imagining is this is mounted to the bottom of the cabinet just as shown. When the playfield is lowered the pins and stuff come down into position , meeting up with this thing. That or the entire bowling alley is mounted to bottom of cabinet and playfield is just a view screen for the area. That prob is more straightforward
Thus the ramp off the top would be where the ball gets fed up to the peak of the bowling alley and rolls downhill toward the pins. So the aiming mechanism just has to be a moving ball guide, doesn't have to be a kicker as well..
Though yeah something has to feed the ball up that guide.. Which is pretty uphill.maybe they are using the Brunswick license to make a mini bowling ball return system, but using it as the launch mech.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:Yes it could accomodate a larger screen in that space but based on the dimensions, how would you fold the backbox down with something larger? It would go below the neck of the game and make it impossible to fold down, wouldn't it?
Why do you think the image on the LCD needs to be centered on the screen? It could be across the bottom only with the extra unused display all above the visible area?
Quoted from Hazoff:Man I hope I can still pre-order. Just sent an email to Dutch, This is looking really great.
Preorder info on their website.. Www.dudepinball.com
I think you even still get the rug at this point
Quoted from luvthatapex2:To me it wouldnt make sense to cover the led strips with the non viewable section of the monitor. The monitor could not be installed behind the led strips or it would heat up. I'm not trying to be argumentative so i will just leave it as my opinion for now, how's that. We will see the display in the coming month i'm sure.
Oh I agree completely that they can't cover up any of the LEDs.. that would cast a harsh shadow on the translight. But they could cover up the majority of the LED daisy chain loops of wire. Which, is a decent amount of margin? Maybe. Looking on new egg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116653&cm_re=16%3a9_20%22-_-24-116-653-_-Product In the customer Q&A some guy measured it (since the published dimensions include stand height) and that guy is 11.5" tall (with casing). So, yeah it would seem like it is close but 20" diagonal might fit?
At least we can put away the "it's a 3D model" part of the questions about the LCD. It looks like it will definitely be bigger than a normal DMD by a good bit. Which I think we can all agree on, is good
Quoted from Hazoff:Is there only one version, I though I saw post for an LE? I'm going to order one and just want to be sure, no mention on the site so I assume not.
There's no LE.. just 1 version, unlimited run. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. What you get now is some perks.. like a rug.. see bottom of this page, under the title: "Get the guaranteed preorder price and become a Dutch Pinball Very Important Pinhead™."
http://www.thebiglebowskipinball.com/game
Actually I think this is the first time they've even alluded to the price being possibly variable after pre-order.
Quoted from mof:I came in a bit late on this thread. I read page 1 and 10. At any point in between, is there an honest discussion about the whitewood? (absent of toy speculation, and theme gushing...)
If it's not found here, is it discussed more in another thread?
-mof
This had become more generically the reveal thread. There were a few pages where we we guessing the toys. Now it usually lurches forward when some piece of it is shown.. (Artwork, toys, etc).. If you want to skim the 10 pages, look at the pictures. A real whitewood hasn't been revealed, just CAD
There aren't that many TBL threads.. This is a primary one, and then there's the preorder list. If you want to talk about something like # of shots /layout/ flow I guess this is as good a place as any.
I'll start: this is not going to be a flow fest game like acdc I would wager. I think people have compared it to white water and thats probably fair at this point. fan layout so they arent getting too carried away for their first design (think thats probably a smart move).
I would put it definitely a design choice category vs oversight. I imagine it has something to do with where the shooter lane actually feeds? The launch button guarantees a regular amount of oomph on the ball.. Maybe they want it to always get to a certain point for whatever they are doing. It means the skill shot may be flipper based vs getting the plunger out just so
I am thinking its just a window, so bowling alley fully installed to cabinet floor. Guess it'll make it easily serviceable if a pin breaks or something.
I doubt the camera though.. If its mounted on the downhill slope as it looks to be, you'll be able to see the pins OK enough through window. Why bother doing it physically at all if you were going to use the display.. Could of just made it a video mode then.
given your research and what we do/don't know about playfield, I would say it has something to do with #3 .. which, to me, is the most mysterious of the boxes right now as it will be a central target type thing of some kind. Maybe it's the dudes car and all that is some fancy "damage" actuators like popping up the hood or something? Dunno.. that seems like a major motor for bash toy type stuff.
Wonder how hard that right ramp is going to be.. Its pretty far over to the right, as far over as an outer loop shot, and then have to climb a ramp. Hopefully they have a flipping whitewood now and can make sure that is going to be regularly makeable. #8 being a flipper like you're showing would possibly make it a little easier ? Though nothing exists currently to feed a flipper over there, short of #4 being some kind of mech to do that. Looking at the 3D render though instead of our original top down view we numbered, seems too high actually for #8 to be a flipper to help with right ramp, oh well.
Im amazed at the number of non pinball people that get confused by the gun on IJ. At least the button saying "launch ball" gives them some instructions. Doing the button allows them to use it for bowling alley as well vs plunger so understand that overlap. Stern likes to have the dedicated launch buttons on lockbar lately but as far as caring where my dollars are getting spent on custom R&D vs stock parts I'm fine with this.
Quoted from Star_Gazer:Something moves or slides up there on the playfield, but what could it be?....my best guess would be..loading a gun?
(not sure about the thing on top of the motor btw...or is that a coil?)
explained.png 248 KB
So the thing between the motor and the bracket, that I thought was a belt earlier, that you are labeling "guide/rail tube".. couldn't it just be a drive shaft / hex axle? seems simpler.. maybe there's a reason the motor has to be mounted a long ways away ? guns aren't that big in this movie.. just the one scene where it gets dropped out of the car.. so dunno. Maybe, assuming you're right in your diagram.. it is the dude's car sliding out to then turn into a bash toy that wasn't revealed previously?
Quoted from Star_Gazer:I don't thinks so, the motor must travel over the rail to make connection, there are holes in there to make a fit.
Could it be a magnet moving under the table taking your ball from point #3 to #6, ?but then it should be visible in the bowling area (guess not )
Yeah hmm. Let's hear it for innovation regardless 
Quoted from tracelifter:Watch it again, the firearm that falls out of the car is an open bolt Uzi, the pistol in the mark it zero scene is a Model 1911 .45.
It's a league game Smoke.
» YouTube video
Oh yeah can't believe forgot mark it zero gun. But still, while the scene is important would the gun itself make it into a complex toy? Vs say the dudes car.. Or the corvette even.. Both those props would be a bit better. That or a folgers can.
I do need to see it again. Finally ready to retire my well used DVD copy for the blue ray one that just got here. Time to force the wife to watch it as well.. She said she might of seen it once.. But seems curious I am so into this movie and why I want to shell out $8500 for a game. Hmm.. Or maybe she shouldn't see it.. If she decides she really doesn't like the movie.. Could be problems
Yeah dude's car is the only thing I suggested back when they were asking for suggestions, that got a positive response back from them. Though, I think they later published they liked bashing the corvette better... cause you know, this is what happens when you f*ck a stranger in the ass (or as the censored version says says.. "find a stranger in the alps") ... I so f'ing hope they use that line in family mode.
Quoted from burningman:Gotta agree...the car is used in how many sceens? like 5? I would think the car would be used somewhere/somehow. I also think that they are saving some of the best, blow your mind toys to be revealed later in production....
they gotta keep feeding us monkees....
This is from the February NSNL, so while they don't say they will implement them, here's what they liked:
We asked and the fans abide.
We asked what you wanted to see in The Big Lebowski Pinball™, and in true Pinhead style, you abided. After going through hundreds of suggestions, we have selected our Top 5 -- the ones that got the most submissions, made us laugh the loudest, and had to be shared:
#5. Smash Larry's car mode: Walter: “Is this your homework, Larry?"
#4. Jackie Treehorn "Spiked White Russian" mode: Maybe the flippers have a delay and the lights slowly dim like you're about to fall unconscious?
#3. If you you press the start button without credit: “Where's the money, Lebowski?". Press it again: "Where's the fucking money, shithead?!"
#2. The machine is able to tell when it is technically Shabbas in the player's local time zone. Walter will need some extra convincing to cooperate in the game. “Saturday is Shabbas. Jewish day of rest. Means I don't work, I don't drive a car, I don't fucking ride in a car, I don't handle money, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as shit don't fucking roll!”
#1. Tilt warning callouts:
Single Warning: "Careful, man, there's a beverage here!"
Double warning: "This aggression will not stand!"
Tilt: ”YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT" / "you're bring very undude" / "mark it zero, dude"
Quoted from Star_Gazer:Ahhh, thanks hensbrooker! i can see clearly now!...(changed the perspective and it's a fit!) there sure must be something pushing out of the "?hole" what could it be?
This looks as impossible as now the motor is just sitting on the playfield in a front to back orientation right, and looking like its mounted diagonally? if there was a plastic mold over the whole thing it just looks too huge for that area. I'm still going it's underneath but happy to be proved wrong.
OK yeah thought you were proving out Hensbrooker's idea the mech was on top. I figured yours was mirrored when I kept turning my phone around and couldn't get the orientation. Guess we'll have to wait.. If I looked at half the mechs in my games from the underside I would have no idea what they are doing on the top oh well sure it'll come soon enough.
Given that Koen (software guy at dutch) gave you a thumbs up, they absolutely are which makes me think, I wonder when we'll start seeing some software teasers? Maybe they'll walk through the whole playfield reveal by october and then keeps us salivating with software stuff from then till April?
Having a prototype in Oct would be a good sign for meeting delivery in Q2.. it would show they understand that the last 20% is the hard part and give themselves enough time to sort out the kinks and work on the manufacturing end while they finish software.
it has to be central since it's the thing people will be hitting over and over. Jeff Lebowski in a wheel chair ala sparky who gets dumped out of his chair? Let me tell you something else. I've seen a lot of spinals, Dude, and this guy is a fake. A fucking goldbricker.
That might not be too PC and it's not like there's really villians in this movie you are "against" .. it's just a story for a time and a place.
i like the idea of the corvette.. the callouts from hitting it over and over.. starting with "Is this your homework larry?" until "you see what happens???" would be classic
1 week later
the full ablum is https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.662276720535151.1073741830.145510835545078&type=3
There's a couple of angles of the center mystery mechanism.. looks to me like it is indeed a extend and retract kind of thing, with a subway behind?
Quoted from ecurtz:What about a pin sweep or whatever those things are called? I don't see any rails for it to move back and forth on, but it looks like it could do that front to back scooping motion.
yeah it could be.. but with the entire bowling alley as the lower playfield, seems like too much bowling stuff then? maybe the dude's car / bash toy that's only deployed certain times? (since retracted it could be pretty hidden under the upper playfield)? hard to say..
Quoted from Biv:You boys forget the best part on this pin - the metric screws and nuts!
ugh.. will need new nut drivers
Quoted from burningman:SD_Tom....PM me your address and this will be my gift to you.
http://www.harborfreight.com/metric-nut-driver-set-7-pc-69110.html
Sorry its not magnetic
haha that's ok thanks though I am sure i have a coupon somewhere and there's one near my office
zone depth getting hard to gauge. There will be a diverter somewhere up there too.. hmm. Theres def a metal subway that goes from #3 towards #1. That you can see in the earlier composite featuring the loose end of the screw drive
Quoted from Star_Gazer:Worked some extra hours in my top secret pinball research facility
Looking good. If the center thing is indeed the car (whether the dudes or the corvette), I am liking the suggestion here by the subway and sheer beefiness of the whole under playfield contraptraption that it will be a multistage toy (ala MM castle,POTC ship). Those are always popular and I personally really dig them. What it doesn't look like is there being a barrier wall to be lowered first (ala AFM / SM).. Which is fine.. Maybe you just hit the car bumper until hood pops open or something. The forward / back screw drive.. Not clear the part to play there unless there is door panel targets or something from the sides that get exposed?
And if its not either of the cars.. At a loss on what it would be?
anyone else worried they suck too much at playing for that right ramp? it looks far off to the right, more like an outer loop shot, yet has to also have enough oomph to make it up the ramp. Think it will be hard to make from a cradle?
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I'm not a great pinball player, but why worry about a ramp shot on a playfield design that hasn't been revealed in its final form yet?
I guess on a few fronts:
1) Something to talk about to stay out of the rain of WOZ and MMR threads
2) They have gotten as far as milling out some playfields with the arrow way over there, so it's somewhat firm.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tbl-playfield-layoutmy-thoughts/page/13#post-1812653
3) These guys haven't done this specific aspect of a game before.. setting up things for make-able shots. In my naive view of things, that ramp looks hard from the angle and from having to make the ramp at that extreme angle? If someone said "oh this is just like game X, and there's no problems with that"
4) I suck I put some time on IJ this weekend specifically because I stuck at the right ramp, let alone hitting the outer loops (that is widebody, maybe hitting the right ramp in IJ is just like hitting a TBL right ramp?). I know the outer loops on IJ i can't do from a cradle.. the ball has to have some oomph on it.
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:I think the shot is very doable. The entrance is wide enough and the ramp is probably not that steep.
TBL_PF_insert_overlay.jpg 78 KB
Oh yeah thanks for the insert overlay!
Guess depends on how accurate the model is on steepness.. Here it looks steep and curves around. So def only clean shot, no back hands which is fine. Will be interesting to see if its possible to do it from a cradle due to the power / far right angle.. Right now thinking no?
Quoted from burningman:Not worried a bit...I know on my Airborne the right ramp is steep....if they use something like Capcom did, you can crank that power up, (if the flipper feels weak or you have the pf pitch steep) and she'll make the ramp without a problem.
hummm....we may find out at Expo...
Ah yes, Airborne looks very similar to what's going on here. Can you hit it from a cradle or has to be moving pretty good? Does it seem particularly challenging or feels like most others?
Yeah the closer we get the more I'd like to make October.. Guess will be relying on your spy shots. Would be great if they had a partial game in the VIP suite.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I hear what you're saying regarding IJ; I have the same challenges with the right ramp. I'm feeling confident that the boys at DP will come through with a thoroughly playable design though and as such, I'm not worried regarding the playfield layout. That said, TBL is worthy of as much discussion as can be mustered - so keep on posting!
I guess it comes down to how much experience really matters for the art of shot layout? People like Ritchie might be able to toss something together pretty quick and it be 95% right the first time. I'd think for the rest of us, more like 60% design and then 40% tweaking the angles?
Given DP has their shit together I'm not too worried about it either. Anxious to see a flipping whitewood or something, maybe for expo.
Hopefully, given their involvement with the dutch pinball association they'll get some prototypes in front of some outsiders for some honest opinions as well. Just for the love of god make sure the flippers are strong enough (seems to be every prototype game has this problem which turn into shit storms here)
yeah where the heck did that source material come from, i can't even tell what it is.. how did you even know it was a plastic? If it is, couldn't it be a cover for the back of that ramp on the left? some of it looks transparent
ok after looking at and looking at it, i finally realized what we are looking at .. some masking tape on a blueprint right? so the dots are just things like posts and such.. so, yeah, hard to tell anything from that
1 week later
Which other games have car bash toys? I dunno why being a car specifically would make it bad. I've been thinking of it more (perhaps way too optimistically) like MM castle or POTC ship given the complexity of whats going on under the playfield, so multistage/highly interactive. Whatever form it takes (car or not) wouldnt matter as much.
Wasn't aware of CFTBL / Congo window issues.. It does make sense though. It's more that it lifts/sinks relative to playfield or more level but a small gap opens up over time (shrinks)? I suppose they could be using the CFTBL window for simplicity (parts availability) but also clear coat it in place (acdc).. Wouldn't be as replaceable obviously.
Quoted from jayhawkai:Street Fighter II.
Thanks, watched a video. Yeah I would hope that if the center toy is a car, it isn't like that toy we're not pushing a car here, we're destroying it (whether its the dudes car or the corvette)
Quoted from RobT:Nascar
That one looks def better than SF2 car toy. I would still expect a bit more for TBL but the NASCAR one is on the right path. Watching the PAPA video just now for it, the game looks kinda fun.
1 week later
nope there was a hint on the BOP 2.0 thread of a new timeline for that DP project.. they are hoping to get all those shipped before expo.. which is probably good as i think they don't want to get cornered by a bunch of sour BOP 2.0 customers in the middle of their TBL VIP party. Hopefully they are getting a lot of lessons learned out of BOP 2.0 to make the TBL thing even smoother of a process.
last was sept 3rd, subject "Our cycle..." It was about a "TBL Launch party" in the netherlands on sept 27th.
cool-- I- I'm saying, she needs money man, and uh, you know, of course they're gonna say they didn't get it, uh uh, because she wants more, man, she's gotta feed the monkey...mean--uh, hasn't that ever occurred to you man? Sir?
Quoted from RTR:I was going to go, but The Grand Cafe Lebowski only has 3 stars on Yelp.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/grand-cafe-lebowski-utrecht
you know, when i was in australia in april, i realized they don't use yelp, nor do they especially have a alternative. one guy told me urban spoon was a bit more popular, but it still didn't have much. Guessing netherlands is the same .. given how few/old the reviewse are.. people still just wing it still there.. it's quaint
The scale looks very small on that car. So hmm.. Where does it go. I am supposing its not the central toy with the huge under play field mech. For that (as the car) I was imagining something more front end of his car only but like 3" wide where you just bash the bumper, hood pops open for scoop / mode start or some thing. This looks barely pinball height / matchbox size? Maybe this is off to the side / misc decoration element? Or a bash toy up where we think the parking lot part of the upper playfield is. The scale would be right for that.
Very happy its there somewhere though, and for this crumb of a reveal
Nice!! looks like it could fit nicely on the parking lot. Wonder how that would work... the targets on the 3rd flipper are clear across "the lot" so would it be a blocker .. maybe hit it from any side counts? it would need to be foam or something to not break.
Yeah for scale of course
Still seems too small for #3? Your diagram confirmed for me its just slightly bigger than a matchbox. If instead we are taking about #2 being the bowling alley (the building, not the actual mini bowling alley), and the 3rd flipper zone in front of it being the parking lot of the bowling alley.. Then that is a nice scale, and a nice place (since thats where the car is both stolen from and then dies). My question then is, is it in a handicap spot and how would a bash toy sitting in the open field with the 3rd flipper work and not get destroyed. So I have some doubt about my speculation.
Quoted from r6emperor:Maybe its made of fireproof material and in the wizard mode the nihlists come and set it on fire?
Haha.. Game comes with 5 pack of cars, have to order more if you get to wizard too many times Plus it makes the inside of the game smell like 30 years of cigarette bowling alley. 
yeah looks pretty good! the trim and finish on this thing looks like it will be top notch. Even with no paint or anything there's a scar down the side of the car from being lodged against an abutment. Could of been phoned in with just a paint treatment.
There is the big lebowski "launch party" next Saturday in the Netherlands.. I am hoping then, or at least some major reveals
Is there anyone on pinside going though to report back? Hoping there's a NSNL either in advance of (so this week) or afterwards to get us up to date. Then imagine radio silence till expo.
Since the next payment is due on the first, I'm sure they'll do something in the way of a NSNL independent of the party to get us excited about handing over another $1500
Assuming PROC, like bop 2.0. If something is working, why change it. Making boards seems like a lot of work / lots of debugging. Hoping they established a software/hardware framework they got comfortable with for Bop 2.0 which let's them focus on the game specific aspects right away. They've never come out and said it to my recollection, just would be really surprised to see a change.
went ahead and paid October this morning. I have faith, even if i'm the negative nancy of the group
so has nobody but me and burningman sent a TBLfie in? Deadline approaching!
VIPs can submit their TBLfie wearing their Official Black DP VIP t-shirt by email to phil no later than 23:59 Netherlands Time on September 30 2014
Quoted from burningman:I only have the last payment left (april 2015). Seems like every new update I end up jumping into my paypal account. I might just become "paid in full" at Expo.
Nice! Yeah I'm hoping the next 30 days of announcements gets everyone pretty comfortable with the physical aspects of the game if they weren't already. Leaves 6 months for software, tweaking, manufacturing ramp up, etc.. before April. Wondering if there's still going to be a couple (?) mark boxes left to reveal after October or they'll hold back some of the toys anyway.
yeah, the preorder-ing on this one is not as compelling, but that maybe is a good things.. the people doing the pre-order now or miss out.. you pick up a customer base that might not be as dedicated / more interested in flipping and less patient. The only possible thing that could suck is if the price goes up further. But, given they are top of market (short of JPOP) anyway, they probably couldn't raise the price a lot from here anyways for a niche title like this. You do get a nice rug though..
Quoted from beauimpala:I would love to participate in the selfie contest. I've get the best setup for this ever, but I have not received the t-shirt yet.
the t-shirt problem blows... i'd def be spamming Phil; it's a cool prize so was surprised people weren't more into it. Do you get the newsletter emails ok or missing those too?
Wondering if we'd ever get to a point of seeing a TBL pinball flyer with feature lists and all that like Stern does? It's probably a bit of work to put together though for not much return for them.
I guess I am hoping that the level of detail available in a stern pinball flyer being where we stand on TBL information after expo.. think that's a toe too far?
I am thinking we already made one change happen.. Originally they had the standard "launch ball" button and there was some crying about wanting it to be a custom bowling ball. In what feels like a couple weeks they followed up with a NSNL with the custom bowling ball button. Maybe it was already in the works, maybe not.
However, I imagine a lot of things are semi-firm at this point if they want to hit April. But if something is universally hated I'm sure they'll try to address it.
Quoted from Erik:Man this game looks cool. Definitely my favorite of all upcoming pins. Hope they get the BOP stuff worked out so I feel more comfortable ordering.
Full disclosure: my wife hopes the opposite
Yeah I hope nearly as much for an announcement for BOP shipping as further TBL updates.. then I wouldn't have this nagging tinge of guilt every time TBL shows progress.
<24 hours!
I'm a bit disappointed we didn't get a NSNL today. Maybe one tomorrow simultaneous with the start of the party? I guess if not, you guys that are going need to get your batteries charged so you're ready to go to let us know what's going on tomorrow!!
Quoted from burningman:^^^^ would love to see it, but I don't expect it. I think we are lucky enough to see just one prototype in Chicago. If there is more, thats just the gravy
Seems like at least 2.. Unless they are going to put the one prototype at the pinball life party, and then hoof it over to the hotel in an hour for the VIP party. Maybe based on how those two events go (Friday) they could put them on the floor for stress testing. If so, please for the love of god make sure the flipper strength is solid and the thing is leveled correctly
I am anxious to see that right ramp in action.. it still is giving me heart burn.. given how far over to the right it is, and potential hill it has to climb.
Pretty good.. unfortunately my gut reaction was the color scheme (orange everywhere) and excessive checker patterns was very jarring :/ but still digesting it.. realizing it is 100% the case of my fantasy about things not matching reality and that's not their fault. The pinball news high-res pictures are helping a lot as can see all the details.
Under the ball return shell plastic, that's a mode saucer right ?
I have a feeling our TBL threads are going to be getting a lot more visitors though! Happy for DP !!
Quoted from lordloss:Did you guys just sit there and look at the machine the whole time? Where is the gameplay video?>
They aren't in a playable state yet / prototypes
Quoted from Tmezel:I thought the rug was a decal and as it rolled back it is more decal on the playfield. It just gives a sense that it is being rolled out.
He's talking about the actual rug that is under the game / on the floor in a lot of photos. It comes with pre-order. Nevermind: he's not talking about the real rug.. sorry
rug.jpg
Oh, yeah I wouldn't of thought that. It's just s decalled wall that moves backwards revealing play field rug graphics to appear as if rug unraveling. Maybe put some mylar over the decal to help protect it? Might make it a bit glossy though?
It could roll I guess, but the playfield part is definitely not a rug / looks clear coated and glossy compared to the rolling pin rug part. I guess it could be resting on the playfield a bit so it could roll.. but with enough wax or age would prob slide back without rolling?
I think most of us are saying the same thing. It's a rolling pin, with a decal (or maybe even a fuzzy decal) that rolls backwards revealing the PF artwork that is also the rug.. hence the appearance of unrolling; with hopefully scoop at the back as rumored Multi-phased toys are sweet.
Quoted from sd_tom:It could roll I guess, but the playfield part is definitely not a rug / looks clear coated and glossy compared to the rolling pin rug part. I guess it could be resting on the playfield a bit so it could roll.. but with enough wax or age would prob slide back without rolling?
Quoted from LITZ:Maybe the roller spins naturally since it makes contact with the PF showing us a different part of the print that is attached to the roller?
Quoted from kvan99:No guys, the picture of the rug is printed on the pf, the rug rolling mech just rolls back it does not unfurl, it just rolls back revelaing a scoop to shoot into (from the info I got).
Quoted from Rarehero:I LOOOOVE those stylized silhouette inserts in front of the rug! Simple, simple visual that represents a storypoint from the movie.
-Wu pees on The Dude's rug.
-Dude meeting The Big Lebowski.
-Maude hoisted in the air at her studio.
-The RINGER!
-THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FUCK A STRANGER IN THE ASS!!!!
-Goodbye Donny
Yeah those are really cool
1 week later
Read somewhere here that the car will open all the way so that edge of the wall is resting against the red targets.. So car is bash toy to sort of serve as newton ball / telegraph the hits to the red stand ups. Cool if it works and is reliable
Quoted from Jvspin:I really like that you can tell the game was laid out specifically to support the TBL theme. The lower bowling alley playfield and upper playfield with building and pop out car would not fit nearly as well for say, TWD.
i guess you could change the bowling pins to zombies on lower playfield and pop out car could be a boss zombie. 
Yeah they are doing a good job with theme. I would consider IJ the "theme king" currently but this might take it (good thing I will have both)
Quoted from John_in_NC:Comparing overpriced pins to overpriced pins, yes I agree. At the end of the day it's a plywood box (best case) with a plywood board and about $2000 worth of hardware screwed down to it. Add 50% to the price tag and you can buy a new car. (not a great car but a new one)
Back when Machines cost less , they were selling a ton more. So they could make back all the stuff rarehero just listed in a long manufacturing run. This is already an obscure title so it isn't going to sell like hot cakes. Even though the run here is "unlimited" I doubt we'll see a serial # over 300. So hopefully the $8500 keeps them all fed and covers the bills in that kind of quantity.
Cheap , Fast , good - pick two. The game looks high quality (good) and they are doing it relatively fast by spending money doing contract manufacturing, quitting their day jobs, using preexisting Williams parts where they can. So.. It's not cheap . Its still comparable to the others at this point so I don't see how they can be uniquely singled out.
If they raise the price after the pre order window closes, then if anything it signals they likely have been overrunning their margins with the preorder and want to make a bit more money to feed their kids. Think of the children . Also depends on amount.. If it is $500 increase, I don't know how many real sales would of changed. All speculation. I'm in for the theme and that they seem to be doing it well. If one of the "hobbyist" grade manufacturers that are ok with a loss / break even on the finances were making it I can guarantee it wouldn't be this good of a product.
Is $8500 too much for a toy.. Sure.. But that's why it is a sickness . Sorry you got burned out with JJP fiasco , i prob would think twice as well if I lived through that.
But thats not all! For your $6500 WOZ you get over two years of delays presented to you in the form of continuous missed promises! Oh yeah! Maybe if he was charging $8k from the get go at least some of the delays could of been avoided.
Ill take $8500 for what looks to be a comparable game and shows more complete than even the TH appears to be right now, but isn't supposed to be released for 6 months vs 2 in TH case.
Time is money
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Yes I absolutely could just put my money into my savings as payment on TBL, the problem I have is staying committed to buying when im saving because of other interests that may come up. When I have to pay a company for a machine the money is out of sight out of mind and the commitment has already been made if that makes sense. Basically I dont trust myself to save fully for it. Im terrible with my pinball budget lol.
Just means you should of got in earlier when the payments schedule was $1k down, ~$1500 a business quarter after that
Just got around to the C2C podcast.. Very complentary
http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-113-expo-2014-day-1_28797
Quoted from sd_tom:how'd people who played it feel about the shot layout?
Bump for my question about playfield layout Burningman knows what I want to hear about..
they didn't know yet, they suggested it would be "typical" pinball shipping price. Paying shipping from their USA office, address is:
Park Ridge Plaza
350 S. Northwest Hwy, Suite 300
Park Ridge, IL 60068
You also can pick it up if you want.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:REALLY? SWEET! So $9000 total. Now the PR campaign begins with the wife....
Yeah, it's not on the website anywhere, but during the Expo presentation (see Jared's video) he mentioned someone had contacted him about picking it up and Phil thought that should be fine.
why would you want to be able to do a 7/10 split anyway? There is zero way to pick up the spare as there's no pins crashing around? Me thinks people want a little too much from this IMHO
So man.. 5-6 more months till Q2. Wondering what they have planned for the NSNL will cover now that the physical game is established. Guess software and tweaks? Maybe a NSNL per character?
Post edited by sd_tom: From the dept of "what have you done for me lately?"
1 week later
3 months later
Is it safe to go back to this thread and talk about the game yet? I hate using the other thread as I'm a sure if Barry is looking at pinside every time he see's new posts on that thread his heart leaps into his throat Figuring that one is good to stay on refund topic.
I had was going over the the new playfield yesterday, very happy they added some keylining to the fonts on the lower inserts to help them not get so washed out when lit; especially when it looks like those will be solid on once you complete an area of the game (since it says "collect all 6 to light the dude abides").
i guess i hadn't noticed this before but there's a white russian on just about every shot that lights up. Were they active for those that played a prototype? Guessing there's a mode after you complete the white russian that involves maybe shooting a specific shot (or all shots?)
Also, here's a video of the light show again as it's so damn impressive; set to alanis morissette hand in my pocket Side ways shot
Quoted from LITZ:Looking forward to the Q2 release! Here is a gameplay vid from Modern Pinball,NYC that I just stumbled upon.
» YouTube video
The guy that says he doesn't want to talk about the shit storm is still talking about it for 4 min (hint: jump to 4min mark). Prefer the papa video
2 weeks later
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