But thats not all! For your $6500 WOZ you get over two years of delays presented to you in the form of continuous missed promises! Oh yeah! Maybe if he was charging $8k from the get go at least some of the delays could of been avoided.

Ill take $8500 for what looks to be a comparable game and shows more complete than even the TH appears to be right now, but isn't supposed to be released for 6 months vs 2 in TH case.

Time is money

I just went back 5 months and found a total of 11 MMr that have been available due to cancellations\people tying to sell the spot here on Pinside. There have no doubt been more but there was also people waiting for a spot. Most cancellation just got move to the next guy in line. As best I can tell 5-7 of those have been picked back up. IMO 11 of 1000 is 'for the most part sold out'

WOZLE 75 (as stated in the original post) is 9k. Jack does not do suggested retail price..9k is the price you pay from everyone.

$7500 +/- $100ish is what TWDLE cost shipped. I have one on order and priced shopped it pretty good...contacting all the major players here. I can tell you that 100% of TWDLE sold over 7k shipped. 100% is not a 'low' percentage

Not sure how these facts have 'major flaws'..they are pretty much straight forward. Just cuz 'you' won't buy at these prices..there's obviously 1000s of people that will..and do

So TBL is not alone in being high dollar. I'll give you that. I for (many) would like to own one but the simple fact is it's too expensive for what it it. I can afford one, hell I can afford a dozen but for what it is, I cannot justify the outlay. I would estimate they are making a 40% margin on the machine at it's current price. My hope is that once they tool up, and have output capability they cut their margin in half and triple or quadruple their sales. Win for them, Win for us. I am letting my wallet do the talking. Jack knows he HAD a buyer in me for JJP #1 and #2 (barely) but at current pricing I'm out. I am not alone.

And i wonder how much you know about pin prices outside USA, for example stern le.

I think you dont know shit. Cause we are paying 9k dollar in Holland for years now. And in Australia...... They pay half on top of that.

That is 9k dollar for a stern le. Comparing to tbl and woz/hobbit stern le looks like a zizzle. For on about the same price.

And you ask questions about dutch pinballs price? LMAO!!!

i cancelled mmr, along with many others and got a check in the mail long before the imaginary cut off date some distros prematurely imposed on their customers.

6 out of 7 of the people that I know that ordered MMR have cancelled
Joe are you still on board?

For current Stern LEs (AC/DC, met, ST, Mustang, TBL) we need to let go of 11'000$+ over here, and that's when I pick it up.
So I assume that for all non-americans, the price tag on TBL is amlost laughable, compared to what it seems we will get for it.

What's people’s opinion on how well the 'bowling lane' will work out in terms of a good toy? I'm struggling to work out how a player would score a spare from a 7/10 split for example... Or even if a gutterball will be possible... I'm worried it will end up being a frustrating/annoying gimmick rather than really adding something excellent to the game...

Surely using the display is the way to go here for some genuinely engrossing bowling simulation...!

This is my only real concern about the game...

Im gonna assume this post was not directed toward me because I have no clue what the hell youre talking about.

_{Post edited by Kcpinballfan: phones trippin}

It seems to function like a puck bowler...I don't think you can really compare it to "real" bowling. It's just a cool toy.

Think the bowling will just work fine! Made this schematic:

bowling_01.png

How cool would it be to put a motor on the ball before it's launched to spin it to create a hook once plunged/released?

That would be insane. There would have to be significant spin on it with just the short distance. Or the speed that the ball is shot would have to slow down to allow the ball to bite.

The 7-10 split is an interesting question. If I recall puck bowlers had an extra wire (switch) near one of the outerpins that you could only hit if the puck was exactly laying on both switches as it passed by during a 7-10 split. So in some puck bowlers you could actually complete a 7-10 split.
Maybe the DP guys added an extra switch for this purpose? Just a thought.

You could probably create a similar effect by using a magnet in the center lower portion of the alley that you can pulse with the flipper buttons to pull the ball.

Yeah, that seems like a more doable way to simulate a hook.

I think the bowling toy is just going to be a cool little thing. I'm not personally expecting a lot of "gameplay" on it, more like a video mode, where you sometimes get into a mode where you use the game buttons to do something. But it's way cooler because it's all mechanical. Hit a couple shots, move on.

But every time you show off your game to a guest you know you're going to brag about the fact that there's a freaking mechanical bowling game under the playfield.

If it turns out to really have some depth and fun, hey, great! But just existing is pretty sweet.

I still wish we could get a hand drier installed in the lock down bar.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-pinball-prototype-presentation-reveal/page/8#post-1928928

I think we agree on that one... as opposed to the beauty of pointy elbows

From the brief videos I saw of this mechanism it didn't seem possible to get even a strike... It may be similar to a puck bowler indeed... was a strike possible on those by the way?

I just think it would be a real blast to take advantage of the big LCD screen and have some serious bowling simulation, with hook, speed, angle and, as the player launches the ball, a foot moves towards the line... a final press of the ball launch stops the foot and rolls the ball... the closer to the line means the accuracy is improved... but don't go OVER THE LINE!!

They could maintain the Bruswick Licence in the graphics and change the sub-playfield toy to a couple of 2" flippers that aim the ball at a moving target that arches round a Corvette (Drac-track style)... the target has a crow-bar piveted on it and when struck swings down onto the car... With the apprpriate phrase!

I know, it's not gonna happen... just my fantasy...

Perhaps you can talk with the DP crew and put in a special request for all of us while at the Expo?

Hopefully it will be the same scenario with the bowling lane on this game

I can't imagine they'd design a complex and expensive bowling toy that is incapable of a strike!

Prototype in action
Looks solid

It does look solid Pdx, check me if I'm wrong here but apparently the crib "aimer" picks up speed the further you advance in the game making it harder to release accurately for a strike?

Can't wait to see the game.

I posted that because you already showed you lost the plot.

I was just asking legitimate questions regarding pricing, not meant piss anyone off yet you seem to have been bothered by it because euro buyers pins are extremely overpriced and I was asking about US prices. When I say the games are over priced Im only concerned about US prices because thats where I live. I dont care how much stern is charging for games because im not buying them or interested in them right now, so your comment about Stern makes no sense to me. TBL is overpriced to me, im in on the hobbit and that was my absolute max at $7500 and the fact that I could make reasonable payments spread out over 6 months maybe more. I can't pay off a machine priced at $8500 in four months, its just too far beyond my means. Dont take anything I say as an insult, lower prices worldwide is a good thing for all.

I'm anxious to see how well the bowling mechanism works as well. As a collector of bowling games, and given the mech's prominent location within the playfield, I'm definitely looking for it to be a key element rather than just a novelty or conversation item. Based on what I've seen from DP so far, I have confidence in their ability to maximize the gameplay value on this unique (for a pinball game) feature though.

As far as how well it will replicate realistic pin action compared to other bowling games will be interesting to see. Like the MBA and Bowl-A-Rama big ball bowlers, generally considered to be the ultimate bowling games because the ball actually contacts the pins, the TBL mech will have pins independently connected at the top. Picking up a 7-10 split on the former is, unfortunately, near impossible due to the restrained pin movement that occurs. This is overcome on puck bowlers and other big ball bowlers by allowing the split to be picked up by rolling the ball or puck over a single small contact, amongst the numerous others, on the alley surface under the pins. A common complaint about puck bowlers (as opposed to ball bowlers) from many collectors though is that they're actually too easy to score strikes on in general. If you were lucky enough to catch DP's quickly pulled developmental video of TBL's bowling mech, you would have seen that strikes seemed to be occurring way too easily as well. This should not be the case in it's final version though since the "shooter" mech will likely be rotating back and forth at different speeds and DP may be incorporating sensors and/or software to help produce more realistic pin reactions.

In any case, here's hoping that actual gameplay video footage will reveal many answers soon!

- Tim

Establishing a firm "across this line you do not ..." for pinball purchases at $7500 (or $5000, or $1500, or wherever you're comfortable) makes plenty of sense. I think the issue is when you said "overpriced" it came off sounding like "TBL costs too much for the features it has" instead of "doesn't matter how great TBL is, I'm never spending $8500 on a pinball machine", which I think is more what you meant.

But as far as the "payment plan" goes, couldn't you just save the money in a bank account or something instead of sending it to the manufacturer in installments? Like put $1,000 a month into an account for the 9 months since the game was announced, and there's your TBL?

At the end of that video they show the pins being retracted (in a little dance)... so clearly the mech has the ability to retract the pins... this is very encouraging!! If they do that, then sensors can make it possible to get spares from splits... All it would need is a sensor on the rear wall to pick up a hit on the far right or left in conjunction with a hit of the right (or left) pin to make the game retract the opposite (or adjacent) pins to simulate the action of the stuck pin flying across the lane... Maybe even an adjustable eddy-sensor (aka Roadshow etc) that can detect the proximity of the ball at the right or left... if it's close enough AND the pin on that side is hit, then the game will know that the pin should fly across... If it starts to react when the pin is struck too head on, the player can tweat it to get it right...

Also, with retractable pins, the precise timing of the struck pins can tell the game the angle that the ball went into the rack and therefore the trajectories of the struck pins can be simulated by retracting the pins that would have been hit by the flying pins!! If they work closely with Brunawick I'm sure all the information to link these timings with what pins get hit from flying pins can be worked out!! Retractable pins make all this possible!!!

Just been looking here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-pin_bowling#Bowling_terms_and_jargon

Check out 'Dutch 200', 'Emergency Services', 'Grandma's Teeth'... loads of stuff for DP to get their teeth into!

It would be f-ing awesome if the various pin arrangements left after the first ball could be simulated based on the timing of the stuck pins!!! Come on DP, you can do it!!

I want to see cock and balls down there!

Yes I absolutely could just put my money into my savings as payment on TBL, the problem I have is staying committed to buying when im saving because of other interests that may come up. When I have to pay a company for a machine the money is out of sight out of mind and the commitment has already been made if that makes sense. Basically I dont trust myself to save fully for it. Im terrible with my pinball budget lol.

Just means you should of got in earlier when the payments schedule was $1k down, ~$1500 a business quarter after that

Yeah thats probably true, oh well. You live and learn. Im interested in seeing how the game plays, its very cool looking. If the rules and sounds end up being half as good as it looks this game will be awesome.

Also a great place to utilize some quotes:

I'm throwing rocks tonight!
That creep can roll dude.
Fxxk it Dude, let's go bowling.
You got a date Wednesday baby! (When you win the round and advance?)
Mark it zero. Next frame.

First gameplay video is here!

Looks awesome! Easily the best of the pins made in the last several years(IMHO).

Just wanted to say that I am still proud to be a day 1 pre-order. It just keeps getting better and better. DP have done everything right from my perspective. I have not regretted taking the ride for one second.

April 2015 seems soooo far away now

Awesome!! Love what I'm seeing so far! Way to go DP!!!
~Steveo

Exactly how I feel - it's been great!

The gameplay looks like a lot of fun!

Especially since they seem to be moving it along a a decent clip.

I'm getting very close to calling this pin my new grail.