(Topic ID: 103252)

Taxi Remake.....Any System 11? (Poll Added)


By dozer1

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 74 posts
  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by jmountjoy111
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Would you buy a NIB System 11 for $3800.00 + or - $200.00”

  • Yes, I would buy any of the top system 11 titles for that. 30 votes
    31%
  • Yes, if they happen to remake the one I want. 36 votes
    38%
  • No, I would rather put my NIB money towards a new title or a later pin remake. 13 votes
    14%
  • No No No. But it is irrelevant because they would cost way more then that in the unlikely event that they would be remade. 17 votes
    18%

(96 votes)

There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

I picked Taxi because it is liked by a large percentage of pinball fans. So much so that most of them are "well used" and by no means collectors grade without expensive restoration. Mousin' Around would be a cool choice too, as it seems there just isn't enough of them out there. It would stand to reason that a system 11 remake would be somewhat cheaper then a newly designed pin or a DMD remake. Would there be enough interest out there for this to be done? If so, put me down for the first Taxi.

#2 4 years ago

Would you really pay 4-5k for a System 11 remake?

#3 4 years ago

Wouldn't that be about 1/2 of what a high end restoration would cost? So sure. I would do 4k for a NIB Taxi.

#4 4 years ago

It would come down to price. Yeah no one would pay 4-5k for a taxi remake, but why would it cost that much? With new board technology like we are seeing in MMR, lack of DMD, no liscence to pay out, less toys to remanufacture, not having to pay for design or code, keep it a translite, hell keep all the bulbs incandescent- why couldn't it be done for 3k?

At that price for a NIB taxi I'm sure you could find a good size group if buyers. Probably not all early solid state would work but I can see a core group of them working.

Look at prices for used Elvira and the party monsters, what if a NIB one cost 3k$? People would jump all over that, I know I would be hard pressed not to.

I think when it comes to pristine NIB people would be willing to pay, it's a matter of what they are willing to pay while still making a profit.

#5 4 years ago

Just because it is a sys 11 does not make it much cheaperto produce
Still need a ccabinet , playfield, mechanicals, electronics

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

With new board technology like we are seeing in MMR, lack of DMD, no liscence to pay out, less toys to remanufacture, not having to pay for design or code, keep it a translite, hell keep all the bulbs incandescent- why couldn't it be done for 3k?

Quoted from PopBumperPete:

Just because it is a sys 11 does not make it much cheaperto produce
Still need a ccabinet , playfield, mechanicals, electronics

One of these views is probably right. I would like to believe it is the first one and would be all over a NIB Taxi for 3 or 3.5K. If I am in a small minority on that opinion, I can see why you don't hear about the manufacturer planning this.

#7 4 years ago

Maybe Banzai Run. Maybe... but the mechanisms and 2 playfields would make that cost a ton I'd suspect.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

One of these views is probably right. I would like to believe it is the first one and would be all over a NIB Taxi for 3 or 3.5K.

I think there would be great demand for NIB Sys 11 titles at this price. Problem is there is no way they would ever sell them for that cheap.

#9 4 years ago

Rick has already said System 11's are on the table of possibilities. All we can hope is he can produce the machines at the price we want. I'd love a Taxi for nostalgia. First game where I understood the rules.

#10 4 years ago

Taxi 2.0 with DMD may push the ceiling a little higher

#11 4 years ago

Taxi could almost do it and would probably be the simplest remake. I would think less than 3.5k price is achievable. There's not that much to a taxi but still one of the best ever.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Taxi 2.0 with DMD may push the ceiling a little higher

Ooooo.. System 11 2.0's with DMDs. That would be pretty cool, but yeah, prices would go up, but very interesting to think about.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Ooooo.. System 11 2.0's with DMDs. That would be pretty cool, but yeah, prices would go up, but very interesting to think about.

That's what Skit-B is currently working on with Funhouse...if memory serves me correctly.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

One of these views is probably right. I would like to believe it is the first one and would be all over a NIB Taxi for 3 or 3.5K. If I am in a small minority on that opinion, I can see why you don't hear about the manufacturer planning this.

Quoted from nikpinball:

Taxi could almost do it and would probably be the simplest remake. I would think less than 3.5k price is achievable. There's not that much to a taxi but still one of the best ever.

You two need to get together and start a pinball company to build System 11 remakes. Do it!

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

You two need to get together and start a pinball company to build System 11 remakes. Do it!

Maybe we could start small by renting the old Stern plant.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Ooooo.. System 11 2.0's with DMDs. That would be pretty cool, but yeah, prices would go up, but very interesting to think about.

People could possibly be interested AND willing to pay premium prices for this if some new rules were added as well. maybe some modes.

IMO Multiball on taxi is on the weak side, make it more challenging or add things. Make it so that during multiball it temporarily turns off all your collected passengers, now during multiball you have to collect passengers again in a timed mode for mini jackpots, say 1 million per passenger. Collect them all during multiball for a big jackpot. Something along these lines, make it a little deeper.

Maybe during multiball if you lock both balls it goes into a driving video mode- granted video modes are not my favorite, but people do love them, if MOF sees this he would be so against it

If you are going to make them more expensive, then throw in a mirrored backglass like CPR did as well.

#17 4 years ago

There is a lot you could do with all of the popular System 11 games with a 2.0 type of re-imagining. Taxi, F14, Swords of Fury, Whirlwind are all that would be pretty awesome with some expanded rules and features.

#18 4 years ago

I'd be in for a brand new Bad Cats, among many other sys 11 titles.

#19 4 years ago

Not a system 11, but I know a handful of people that would hop on a Centaur remake, myself included.

#20 4 years ago

I'll certainly agree. System 11s made the pinball world go round back in their time. If you could get a new Pinbot, or Whirlwind etc.. for something less than what a full restoration costs, I'm sure there is a market for it.

#21 4 years ago

As people have posted above, you want sys11 remade but with deeper rules and a DMD
This is going to cost money

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

There is a lot you could do with all of the popular System 11 games with a 2.0 type of re-imagining. Taxi, F14, Swords of Fury, Whirlwind are all that would be pretty awesome with some expanded rules and features.

There are some folks working on expanded rules and things for Sys11, but they are mods to existing games rather than brand new machines. I also don't think that any of us is planning to make a business from selling what we're doing - a number are making code open-source so it can be copied, but you'll need to do your own setup.

F14 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f14-tomcat-second-sortie-information-and-on-going-development
Whirlwind - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-software-rewrite-the-journey
Earthshaker - http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?board=33.0

FAST are also looking to release 2.0 versions of games at some time alongside PPS, they'll be having Sys11 2.0 boards and things but details on those look sketchy at the moment.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

There is a lot you could do with all of the popular System 11 games with a 2.0 type of re-imagining. Taxi, F14, Swords of Fury, Whirlwind are all that would be pretty awesome with some expanded rules and features.

Add BK2K to that list....rewrite the rules so there's a reason for having the ball on the lower playfield.

#24 4 years ago

The DMD is not the expensive part of the game to make.

I would say if you want to know what games are good candidates for remakes, take a look at the most expensive games and most popular on the list of top 100 games. Those are the ones that the market would bear the cost of a remake. For a remake to work there needs to hit this criteria:

At least N number of units that would be ordered, where N is is the breakeven point where bulk orders provide significant cost savings.

What determines whether games will reach 'N'?

The game should have a low number of existing games. The reason Taxi is more than half the cost of the DMD games isn't the tech or that the game is twice as deep. The reason is a lot more Taxis were made, and a lot more survived.

The game should be very popular with collectors, as they are the main audience. How popular a game is can be correlated to the pinside top 100 roughly. Now some games are total turds gameplay wise but would be very collectable like say Empire Strikes Back. But in general, games that have deep rulesets and are highly sought after on the collectors market (aka demand higher price).

The game should have a market value above reproduction cost. AKA if the game sells for $6000 on the collectors market, but can be remade at a profit for $4000 per unit, then it is a candidate for reproduction.

Does taxi really reach this criteria? Taxi is a great game, but unlike MM there are plenty out there to be had, and bang for the buck for $4K (your 'in theory' NIB price, which I think is highly suspect) you can get Whitewater, TOM, etc which have deeper rulesets and more things going on, and generally collectors like better. The biggest thing though, the game's market value is not above reproduction costs. People think that Stern and PPS are making a huge killing like 50% margin on a game but in reality my guess is pinball isn't lucrative, it makes some people ok money and they can make a living but I doubt they can churn out games for $3k a piece and charge $4k. Factories, labor, parts, marketing, support... all expensive.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

Taxi 2.0 with DMD may push the ceiling a little higher

Taxi is so simplistic in design I honestly don't know how a DMD would enhance it.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

Taxi is so simplistic in design I honestly don't know how a DMD would enhance it.

New rule set/animations....wizard mode. There are things that can be done.

#27 4 years ago

Seems like Bad Cats is the one more guys are looking for in a system 11 then Taxi or some of the others. This came up a few times on this thread anyway. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11s-drying-up
Maybe it would be a better candidate to fetch that NIB money enough times to justify it? I don't know, time will tell if PPS or whoever thinks so. To me, the biggest reason to do a system 11 remake is if you are a collector that demands very high quality in your collection, the only other way to achieve it would be a high end restoration for this age of pin. I admire the guys who can do this. They are true craftsmen and earn what they get for their hard work and dedication. If you could have a NIB system 11 for less, that would be cool too.

#28 4 years ago

I could see maybe a few system 11 games being remade:

Diner
Funhouse
BK2K
Whirlwind
EATPM

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I could see maybe a few system 11 games being remade:
Diner
Funhouse
BK2K
Whirlwind
EATPM

Funhouse is not a System 11 - It's a WPC

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Seems like Bad Cats is the one more guys are looking for in a system 11 then Taxi or some of the others. This came up a few times on this thread anyway. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11s-drying-up
Maybe it would be a better candidate to fetch that NIB money enough times to justify it? I don't know, time will tell if PPS or whoever thinks so. To me, the biggest reason to do a system 11 remake is if you are a collector that demands very high quality in your collection, the only other way to achieve it would be a high end restoration for this age of pin. I admire the guys who can do this. They are true craftsmen and earn what they get for their hard work and dedication. If you could have a NIB system 11 for less, that would be cool too.

The lack of available sys 11 parts is a problem also , for example Mousin' Around ramps & ramp decals are unavailable , the cheese trap brackets ( there's a pinsider currently looking for them w/ no luck) unavailable . Plastics , cab decals , playfields etc. etc. I just used MA as an example, if PPS could make these parts it would be half the battle . I think Sys11 remakes would be awesome too, but I'd be happy if I could just get the parts I need. Just don't know if it is a viable mkt. though. Sorry for the ramble

#31 4 years ago

Funhouse is a wpc, So is bride of pinbot,, But yes alot more inline before taxi to get remade Earthshaker, bad cats, banzai run, Space station, Mousin around, High speed, fire, Doctor dude, whirlwind, diner, pinbot, Elvira, Transporter, cyclone. I think taxi would be at the end of that list.

#32 4 years ago

Earthshaker Remake with new modern rules and mods would be awesome... but that would never happen

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

Earthshaker Remake with new modern rules and mods would be awesome... but that would never happen

Yes...to stop this from happening

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

Earthshaker Remake with new modern rules and mods would be awesome... but that would never happen

Scott is working on a P-ROC based rework called "Earthshaker - Aftershock", it'll be at Expo.

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1001.msg10298#msg10298

#35 4 years ago

The stern home pin line assures me system 11's could be remade for 3k range. The home pin line is about as complicated or a little moreso than a pin like taxi, fire, jokerz, bad cats. There are some more sophisticated sys 11's but this could certainly happen in a cost effective manner. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ebay-selling-avengers-home-pin

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from nikpinball:

The stern home pin line assures me system 11's could be remade for 3k range.

Great point. I have to reconsider my stance on it now. I doubted it would be possible sub $5000 sale price in order to turn a profit at a run of say 2500. But if they have the tools and the licensing and the shop set up to do it, I suppose it could be done.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from nikpinball:

The stern home pin line assures me system 11's could be remade for 3k range. The home pin line is about as complicated or a little moreso than a pin like taxi, fire, jokerz, Bad Cats. There are some more sophisticated sys 11's but this could certainly happen in a cost effective manner. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ebay-selling-avengers-home-pin

I don't understand. So because System 11 pins had an Alphanumeric display, and the pin has an alphanumeric display, therefore they are the same price? There's no evidence you provide that this is the case.

'The Pin' has no glass backglass, has a composite body, no coin door, and generally is a totally different build than a System 11. Also the Pin is explicitly for home use so I'd imagine it is certified differently than a full size industrial machine. The complexity between a fullsize Pro model and a System 11 is essentially the same; I don't see how you came up with a $3,000 price point.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I don't understand. So because System 11 pins had an Alphanumeric display, and the pin has an alphanumeric display, therefore they are the same price? There's no evidence you provide that this is the case.
'The Pin' has no glass backglass, has a composite body, no coin door, and generally is a totally different build than a System 11. Also the Pin is explicitly for home use so I'd imagine it is certified differently than a full size industrial machine. The complexity between a fullsize Pro model and a System 11 is essentially the same; I don't see how you came up with a $3,000 price point.

out of his ass.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

But if they have the tools and the licensing and the shop set up to do it, I suppose it could be done.

But why would they when they could charge $5k+? Seems to be the working model these days.

#40 4 years ago

Simply put, there's a lot more costs in pin production then just parts and labor.

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from Snux:

Scott is working on a P-ROC based rework called "Earthshaker - Aftershock", it'll be at Expo.
http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1001.msg10298#msg10298

Can't say I'm a fan of the new audio from the video but I wish that project the best~

#42 4 years ago

It would have to be an update similar to what DP did with BoP but without stripping the sound package. Just toss in a DMD, add more rules and game modes, leave the original music and sound but add dmd mini games and animations and *STUFF* and repro and release... at $3999 you would sell MANY of Taxi's. Volumes of them..... it would put a dent into whatever Stern is selling at the time, FOR SURE.

2 months later
#43 4 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

Would you really pay 4-5k for a System 11 remake?

A good indication to see if the pin community is hungry for a NIB Taxi will be this current auction.
ebay.com link » Fully Restored Williams Taxi Pinball Machine

It has been fun to watch so far.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

A good indication to see if the pin community is hungry for a NIB Taxi will be this current auction.
ebay.com link ยป Fully Restored Williams Taxi Pinball Machine
It has been fun to watch so far.

Agreed but Id rather grab a bunch of player sys11s for a grand a piece. Taxi is the best though.

#45 4 years ago

What they need to "remake" so to speak, is a pin that has the basic qualities of the system 11 pins:

no licensed theme
basic, fun rules

Leave all the toys out. I hate the bash-'em toys on pfs these days. Just plain stupid imo. How hard is it to hit a huge doll in the center of the pf?!

Also would cut down on costs.

#46 4 years ago

Pinbot 2.0 would be very tempting.

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Pinbot 2.0 would be very tempting.

thats called jackbot

#48 4 years ago

The problem with Jackbot is that it doesn't play Pinbot. I asked the question a while back if any of the PROC folks could design a hardware package that would let you play Pinbot on a Jackbot, but there did not seem to be a lot of interest.

Edit: Found it. Wow, it has been almost 4 years!

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/ocjdyNpZBxs

4 years later
#49 6 months ago

The recent sale of a high end restored Taxi made me remember this thread from 4 years ago. At the time, the general consensus was NO, a system 11 remake would not draw enough interest to make it worth while. Today a NIB Taxi or WW for 4200.00ish seems like a bargain.

#50 6 months ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Maybe Banzai Run. Maybe... but the mechanisms and 2 playfields would make that cost a ton I'd suspect.

This was my thought as well. Would be awesome to have a brand new one at that price but I doubt it

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