Would you really pay 4-5k for a System 11 remake?

It would come down to price. Yeah no one would pay 4-5k for a taxi remake, but why would it cost that much? With new board technology like we are seeing in MMR, lack of DMD, no liscence to pay out, less toys to remanufacture, not having to pay for design or code, keep it a translite, hell keep all the bulbs incandescent- why couldn't it be done for 3k?

At that price for a NIB taxi I'm sure you could find a good size group if buyers. Probably not all early solid state would work but I can see a core group of them working.

Look at prices for used Elvira and the party monsters, what if a NIB one cost 3k$? People would jump all over that, I know I would be hard pressed not to.

I think when it comes to pristine NIB people would be willing to pay, it's a matter of what they are willing to pay while still making a profit.

Just because it is a sys 11 does not make it much cheaperto produce
Still need a ccabinet , playfield, mechanicals, electronics

Maybe Banzai Run. Maybe... but the mechanisms and 2 playfields would make that cost a ton I'd suspect.

I think there would be great demand for NIB Sys 11 titles at this price. Problem is there is no way they would ever sell them for that cheap.

Rick has already said System 11's are on the table of possibilities. All we can hope is he can produce the machines at the price we want. I'd love a Taxi for nostalgia. First game where I understood the rules.

Taxi 2.0 with DMD may push the ceiling a little higher

Taxi could almost do it and would probably be the simplest remake. I would think less than 3.5k price is achievable. There's not that much to a taxi but still one of the best ever.

Ooooo.. System 11 2.0's with DMDs. That would be pretty cool, but yeah, prices would go up, but very interesting to think about.

That's what Skit-B is currently working on with Funhouse...if memory serves me correctly.

You two need to get together and start a pinball company to build System 11 remakes. Do it!

People could possibly be interested AND willing to pay premium prices for this if some new rules were added as well. maybe some modes.

IMO Multiball on taxi is on the weak side, make it more challenging or add things. Make it so that during multiball it temporarily turns off all your collected passengers, now during multiball you have to collect passengers again in a timed mode for mini jackpots, say 1 million per passenger. Collect them all during multiball for a big jackpot. Something along these lines, make it a little deeper.

Maybe during multiball if you lock both balls it goes into a driving video mode- granted video modes are not my favorite, but people do love them, if MOF sees this he would be so against it

If you are going to make them more expensive, then throw in a mirrored backglass like CPR did as well.

There is a lot you could do with all of the popular System 11 games with a 2.0 type of re-imagining. Taxi, F14, Swords of Fury, Whirlwind are all that would be pretty awesome with some expanded rules and features.

I'd be in for a brand new Bad Cats, among many other sys 11 titles.

Not a system 11, but I know a handful of people that would hop on a Centaur remake, myself included.

I'll certainly agree. System 11s made the pinball world go round back in their time. If you could get a new Pinbot, or Whirlwind etc.. for something less than what a full restoration costs, I'm sure there is a market for it.

As people have posted above, you want sys11 remade but with deeper rules and a DMD
This is going to cost money

There are some folks working on expanded rules and things for Sys11, but they are mods to existing games rather than brand new machines. I also don't think that any of us is planning to make a business from selling what we're doing - a number are making code open-source so it can be copied, but you'll need to do your own setup.

F14 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/f14-tomcat-second-sortie-information-and-on-going-development
Whirlwind - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whirlwind-software-rewrite-the-journey
Earthshaker - http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?board=33.0

FAST are also looking to release 2.0 versions of games at some time alongside PPS, they'll be having Sys11 2.0 boards and things but details on those look sketchy at the moment.

Add BK2K to that list....rewrite the rules so there's a reason for having the ball on the lower playfield.

The DMD is not the expensive part of the game to make.

I would say if you want to know what games are good candidates for remakes, take a look at the most expensive games and most popular on the list of top 100 games. Those are the ones that the market would bear the cost of a remake. For a remake to work there needs to hit this criteria:

At least N number of units that would be ordered, where N is is the breakeven point where bulk orders provide significant cost savings.

What determines whether games will reach 'N'?

The game should have a low number of existing games. The reason Taxi is more than half the cost of the DMD games isn't the tech or that the game is twice as deep. The reason is a lot more Taxis were made, and a lot more survived.

The game should be very popular with collectors, as they are the main audience. How popular a game is can be correlated to the pinside top 100 roughly. Now some games are total turds gameplay wise but would be very collectable like say Empire Strikes Back. But in general, games that have deep rulesets and are highly sought after on the collectors market (aka demand higher price).

The game should have a market value above reproduction cost. AKA if the game sells for $6000 on the collectors market, but can be remade at a profit for $4000 per unit, then it is a candidate for reproduction.

Does taxi really reach this criteria? Taxi is a great game, but unlike MM there are plenty out there to be had, and bang for the buck for $4K (your 'in theory' NIB price, which I think is highly suspect) you can get Whitewater, TOM, etc which have deeper rulesets and more things going on, and generally collectors like better. The biggest thing though, the game's market value is not above reproduction costs. People think that Stern and PPS are making a huge killing like 50% margin on a game but in reality my guess is pinball isn't lucrative, it makes some people ok money and they can make a living but I doubt they can churn out games for $3k a piece and charge $4k. Factories, labor, parts, marketing, support... all expensive.

Taxi is so simplistic in design I honestly don't know how a DMD would enhance it.

New rule set/animations....wizard mode. There are things that can be done.

I could see maybe a few system 11 games being remade:

Diner
Funhouse
BK2K
Whirlwind
EATPM

Funhouse is not a System 11 - It's a WPC

The lack of available sys 11 parts is a problem also , for example Mousin' Around ramps & ramp decals are unavailable , the cheese trap brackets ( there's a pinsider currently looking for them w/ no luck) unavailable . Plastics , cab decals , playfields etc. etc. I just used MA as an example, if PPS could make these parts it would be half the battle . I think Sys11 remakes would be awesome too, but I'd be happy if I could just get the parts I need. Just don't know if it is a viable mkt. though. Sorry for the ramble

Funhouse is a wpc, So is bride of pinbot,, But yes alot more inline before taxi to get remade Earthshaker, bad cats, banzai run, Space station, Mousin around, High speed, fire, Doctor dude, whirlwind, diner, pinbot, Elvira, Transporter, cyclone. I think taxi would be at the end of that list.

Earthshaker Remake with new modern rules and mods would be awesome... but that would never happen

Yes...to stop this from happening

Scott is working on a P-ROC based rework called "Earthshaker - Aftershock", it'll be at Expo.

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1001.msg10298#msg10298

The stern home pin line assures me system 11's could be remade for 3k range. The home pin line is about as complicated or a little moreso than a pin like taxi, fire, jokerz, bad cats. There are some more sophisticated sys 11's but this could certainly happen in a cost effective manner. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ebay-selling-avengers-home-pin

Great point. I have to reconsider my stance on it now. I doubted it would be possible sub $5000 sale price in order to turn a profit at a run of say 2500. But if they have the tools and the licensing and the shop set up to do it, I suppose it could be done.

I don't understand. So because System 11 pins had an Alphanumeric display, and the pin has an alphanumeric display, therefore they are the same price? There's no evidence you provide that this is the case.

'The Pin' has no glass backglass, has a composite body, no coin door, and generally is a totally different build than a System 11. Also the Pin is explicitly for home use so I'd imagine it is certified differently than a full size industrial machine. The complexity between a fullsize Pro model and a System 11 is essentially the same; I don't see how you came up with a $3,000 price point.

out of his ass.

But why would they when they could charge $5k+? Seems to be the working model these days.

Simply put, there's a lot more costs in pin production then just parts and labor.

Can't say I'm a fan of the new audio from the video but I wish that project the best~

It would have to be an update similar to what DP did with BoP but without stripping the sound package. Just toss in a DMD, add more rules and game modes, leave the original music and sound but add dmd mini games and animations and *STUFF* and repro and release... at $3999 you would sell MANY of Taxi's. Volumes of them..... it would put a dent into whatever Stern is selling at the time, FOR SURE.

Agreed but Id rather grab a bunch of player sys11s for a grand a piece. Taxi is the best though.

What they need to "remake" so to speak, is a pin that has the basic qualities of the system 11 pins:

no licensed theme
basic, fun rules

Leave all the toys out. I hate the bash-'em toys on pfs these days. Just plain stupid imo. How hard is it to hit a huge doll in the center of the pf?!

Also would cut down on costs.

Pinbot 2.0 would be very tempting.

thats called jackbot

The problem with Jackbot is that it doesn't play Pinbot. I asked the question a while back if any of the PROC folks could design a hardware package that would let you play Pinbot on a Jackbot, but there did not seem to be a lot of interest.

Edit: Found it. Wow, it has been almost 4 years!

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/ocjdyNpZBxs

This was my thought as well. Would be awesome to have a brand new one at that price but I doubt it