(Topic ID: 293957)

Taxi - Multiple Row shorts in switch matrix

By GLSP3022

2 years ago


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  • Taxi Williams, 1988

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#1 2 years ago

This one had me stumped.

We just got a Taxi. Basically cabinet, playfield, and a box of mismatched boards and wire harnesses. After acquiring ROMs, a proper LED display, and fitting everything back into the machine, the game will boot into attract mode and does a quick ball search even with the 2 balls present.

Display works, lamps work, sounds seem to be ok. The switch matrix is all 'fudged' up. I don't believe any switches are registering. Test report shows ground row short, row 1. When I go further into the test menu. The game flashes a ground row short for every row of the matrix. See video.
The test switches are hard wired out of the matrix, so they are working.

The problem exists even after removing J8 and J10. Here's the crazy part. In switch edge test, no connectors, if I touch any pin on J10 with my finger. It fires a sling shot and displays a ground row short on the display. How can touching 1 pin and nothing else throw a fault??

What the heck am I looking for??
Thanks!

#2 2 years ago

Pics of boards

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#3 2 years ago

Was the game supposed to be working when you picked it up?

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Was the game supposed to be working when you picked it up?

It was a "project that I didn't have time for"
One of those deals. Price was right, figured how bad can it be?

There's been obvious rework in the switch matrix section, including the resistor networks. Im wondering if an incorrect value was put in.

#5 2 years ago

Looks to me that someone may had installed a used SR11 and the left side is dark. May want to measure the resistance on each pin, such as from pin 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 1 to 4, etc. Should measure about 560 ohms at each pin.

More on the failure here.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Shorted_or_non-working_switch_column

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Looks to me that someone may had installed a used SR11 and the left side is dark. May want to measure the resistance on each pin, such as from pin 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 1 to 4, etc. Should measure about 560 ohms at each pin.
More on the failure here.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Shorted_or_non-working_switch_column

Much appreciated. Once I'm out of work tomorrow I'll have a few days to take that MPU back out and do some measuring and parts checking against the manual. Luckily I have a vast selection of those resistor packs in stock.

#7 2 years ago

Found it!! Ok so examining the previous work done, SR11 was installed backwards. The dot on the resistor pack should line up with the dot on the silkscreen of the board. Apparently that really fudged the switch matrix up. On to other issues....flippers don't work.
Always something with this basket case.

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#8 2 years ago

Note that your board is a System 11A board originally from a Millionaire. You may not get the desired speech/sound effect volume level output from this board unless someone has previously changed the balance in the speech/sound section. It does look like someone has changed some of the electrolytic capacitors in the speech/sound section.

Reference: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Voice_callouts_are_much_softer_than_music.2Fsound

#9 2 years ago

I do notice the music overpowers the speech. I'll have to look into the fix for that

#10 2 years ago

I'm going through this on a Blackout. The problem is on the playfield for sure and not the board however. I've tried two different CPU's, a original along with the driver board and a Rottendog. When using the RD board it will work fine for a minute but the last time I tried it and dropped the red drop target on the left it immediately started showing me the faults in that entire row and then one by each row started acting the same way until they all had the exact same problem. I have to keep replacing the U17 chip each time this happens to make the board work properly again. Using a different playfield I don't have this problem at all. Could every diode on the playfield be bad? I suppose it's possible but was hoping for a easier fix that I'm over looking. I have hours and hours and days into this and can't find anything physically wrong with the playfield like a backwards diode or something touching something it shouldn't be....
HELP!

John

#11 2 years ago

That's odd...all MPUs act the same. I'd be focusing on that red target and anything else on that row or column. No wires pinched at the rear of the playfield?, pin locations correct on the playfield connectors? Solder blobs sticking to the side of any switch stacks?
Kinda brain storming things I've come across.

#12 2 years ago

This playfield took out both MPU's but I've been dealing mainly with the RD one since it's quicker and easier to repair when this happens. I'm not sure if that particular row/column is the cause of it or just a coincidence. No pinched wire, or connectors... In fact I have two Blackout's here, my keeper and a friends game. I've taken that same playfield and put it into my keeper game and it reacts the same way and still comes up with the faults. I've went over the backside of the playfield with a magnifying glass so many times I'm going cross eyed. Not sure what else to do at this point short of replacing diodes?

John

#13 2 years ago

Figured out the flipper issue rather quickly. I missed plugging in a connector.

#14 2 years ago

Dayhuff Sounds like this is one of those issues where you might need a fresh set of eyes to look at it. Hopefully another local Pinsider could stop by and take a look. I know I've had to walk away from machines for days just to come back and see the problem instantly.

#15 2 years ago

You also need to install the high voltage caps on the power supply.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You also need to install the high voltage caps on the power supply.

It's an LED display set, the high voltage is disabled.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from GLSP3022:

It's an LED display set, the high voltage is disabled.

It's not really disabled until you remove the fuses.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from GLSP3022:

Dayhuff Sounds like this is one of those issues where you might need a fresh set of eyes to look at it. Hopefully another local Pinsider could stop by and take a look. I know I've had to walk away from machines for days just to come back and see the problem instantly.

Kinda was thinking that myself but there is nobody around the area really. I've been away from the game for 4-5 days at a time myself (been super busy) and it always looks the same to me but yes I wouldn't mind another set of eyes on it by any means if anyone wants to give it a shot give me a call. 269-979-3836. I'm checking Pinside from what is not my personal PC so getting and receiving emails is not happening right now, it's just best to call. Thanks,

John

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

Kinda was thinking that myself but there is nobody around the area really. I've been away from the game for 4-5 days at a time myself (been super busy) and it always looks the same to me but yes I wouldn't mind another set of eyes on it by any means if anyone wants to give it a shot give me a call. 269-979-3836. I'm checking Pinside from what is not my personal PC so getting and receiving emails is not happening right now, it's just best to call. Thanks,
John

I do think you should start a new repair thread. System 6 vs. System 11 issue here. Some people know more about one era of game than others is a good reason to start a thread to get the attention it needs.

Then you said the magic word "Rottendog ". I would replace that dog with either a reworked original board set or this new board set, http://pinballpcb.com/products/williams-system-3-thru-7-main-board/, but that's just me. I had repaired a couple in the past and like repairing the original boards more.

Rottendog MPU327 board with most system 7 games has major sound issues, which lead them to not support system 7 toward the end.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I do think you should start a new repair thread. System 6 vs. System 11 issue here. Some people know more about one era of game than others is a good reason to start a thread to get the attention it needs.
Then you said the magic word "Rottendog ". I would replace that dog with either a reworked original board set or this new board set, http://pinballpcb.com/products/williams-system-3-thru-7-main-board/.
Rottendog MPU327 board with most system 7 games has major sound issues, which lead them to not support system 7 toward the end.

Yeah I've thought about starting my own thread but just haven't. Still hoping someone would chime in with the magic fix and I'd have the problem solved, or you could say I'm lazy I guess......
The game had an original MPU and driver board and it screwed that board up. Putting the RD board into it is easy to fix as I have a supply of the U17 chips and it's already socketed. I have a original fully working board set ready to go in but if it wont run with the RD board that I can fix there's no sense of putting the refurbished board into it that wont be so easy to fix. The problem is on the playfield for sure since i have two playfields/games that I can use to narrow the problems down, one is a keeper and the other is for friend.

John

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

Yeah I've thought about starting my own thread but just haven't. Still hoping someone would chime in with the magic fix and I'd have the problem solved, or you could say I'm lazy I guess......
John

Just going on the title and the meat of the thread, your posts are off topic and can be confusing to many people since thread has been marked as resolved, even though troubleshooting can work out to be a similar fashion.

Your meat of your posts are great detail for your new thread, which you can copy right to it. Having the history of what you went through so far, is quite helpful as well to getting down to that final solution. Having the separate thread will be a bit help for others having a similar switch issue on any system 3 to 7 game, since now it will become a searchable thread for years to come.

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