(Topic ID: 164999)

Taxi! - Help Me Fix a Game for a Lady Who Could Use Some Good News

By Switch

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by pinwiz_pa
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

Pinsiders let me get right down to it. A few months back I was asked by this lady to take a look at a couple of games she has had for many years F-14 and Taxi. Me being the way I am I just can't say no to people. Fast forward a few months later and I have completely rebuilt and shopped her F-14. In the process of this repair I have gotten to know this lady and her family very well. She is one of the nicest and most positive people I have ever met. She is an avid pinball player who genuinely just loves to play and has very fond memories of these machines and the happiness they brought her many years ago. When I finished F-14 she was literally in tears she was so happy to see the game up and running in full form.

Since I have been working on her machines she has had the worst run of luck I have ever heard of. To sum it up she has been plagued with horrible health issues, Home repair issues (her basement had water coming in for almost 2 weeks), Her sister passed away in one of the most gruesome car wrecks I have ever heard of, and now to top it off she was in a crash last week and totaled her truck. I feel so bad for her it's not even funny and the only thing I can do to help her out is to get this game running so she has something positive to smile about.

Pinsiders, thats where you come in. There is always a lot of negativity on here, but now is a chance to do something good and help out a lady who really could use some good news. I'm not asking for money for parts or anything of the sort. I just need your expert knowledge to help me get this game going for her. The issues its having are beyond my current skill set.

Here is where I'm at. The game had the MPU board taken out several years ago to have a transistor replaced and had been setting out of the machine for several years. I reinstalled the MPU board and got everything connected. The game preceded to boot up without the displays working. It coined up fine and seemed to try and play a game. I shut the machine off and restarted it and now it with turn on, make 3 chimes and then nothing. I get some GI lighting, but it won't coin up and I still have no displays.Not sure where to even start with this one. IT appears there are 2 fuses potentially missing from the power supply board so I am going to check on that first. Not sure how that could be the issue since the game tried to boot up once. This may be a combination of many problems. I am currently starting the shop on it while I await the advice from the experts.

I would also like to take the names of everyone who helps with this, and add them to a set of custom rule cards for the game so she can see just how many good people there are out there in the pinball community.

#2 7 years ago

post some pictures, lots of people here willing to help!

#3 7 years ago

Are you getting any blink codes, as described in the pinwiki section 4.4.2?
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#System_11A.2C_11B.2C_11C_games

#4 7 years ago

Right now the diagnostic led just blinks constaintly and very fast. The other 2 less are on solid. I might pull the board and try cleaning and reseating the chips. I have a feeling its something fairly simple with the booting issue. The display issue thats another story.

1 month later
#5 7 years ago

Ok here is an update. I finished the shop job finally and am ready to attack the operational issues now. I managed to get all the correct fuses in place and the displays are fully operational now. Upon startup the game boots directly to "factory settings" on the display. I thought this was a little strange, but I ran it through the coil test and had a large amount of the coils not firing. Found a bad fuse at I believe F8 (50V A/C if I remember correctly). I replaced the fuse and proceeded to run a coil test again. Several coils that weren't working before were now working, but many were still not. These include the bell, Trough, trough eject, saucer ejects, one or more of the pops.

I also notice that now the catapult fires when the Lola flasher cycles on the coil test? Sounds like a diode maybe? I also notice the left flipper is really really weak and barely functions even with brand new parts. This coil was all tapped up with packing tape when I started working on the machine, so I suspect that is a bad coil as well or related to my other issues.

Currently all other fuses look good and I can't see any signs of damage. That being said I did get a faint but noticeable hot smell coming from the lower cab but can't pinpoint it and no magic smoke.

As always guys I appreciate any help or direction you can give me. Id really like to get this game back to her by the end of the month.

#6 7 years ago

Booting directly to factory settings every time implies dead batteries or a bad connection so the memory doesn't get 5V. Corrosion around the battery holder?

#7 7 years ago

Let me know if you need some warning stickers sets. Just so the old cruddy ones can be removed.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

Booting directly to factory settings every time implies dead batteries or a bad connection so the memory doesn't get 5V. Corrosion around the battery holder?

I didn't put any batteries in it yet. That solves that mystery!

Quoted from flashinstinct:

Let me know if you need some warning stickers sets. Just so the old cruddy ones can be removed.

I appreciate it the offer on the stickers! This isn't a full restore otherwise I would take you up on it. In reality it needs a play field swap to be a worthy candidate for a restore. I has horrid wear around the pop bumpers and outlanes. She just wants it to play it again and doesn't care really what it looks like. I have replaced almost every bulb in the machine so just having all the lighting working will be an unreal experience for her.

Anyone have any ideas on the coil issues? I've never dealt with this before so I'm learning on this one for sure.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Switch:

Several coils that weren't working before were now working, but many were still not. These include the bell, Trough, trough eject, saucer ejects, one or more of the pops.

Pages 29-30 in your manual show the solenoids and some details about test procedures. It's available at IPDB. Pinwiki also has great info, as usual: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Solenoid_problems

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Pages 29-30 in your manual show the solenoids and some details about test procedures. It's available at IPDB. Pinwiki also has great info, as usual: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Solenoid_problems

Thanks for the lead! this is exactly whats happening!

That is, circuits will fire in the following order: 1A, 1C, 2A, 2C, ... 8A, 8C. If the A/C select circuit is not working correctly, the same coil or flasher will fire twice in a row, once for the A side and once for the C side.
The A/C select relay is generally solenoid 12 in coil test. Placing the "Auto Advance" button in the up position, to repeatedly test solenoid 12, should allow you to hear the A/C relay clicking on and off.
If all of "one side" of the A/C select circuit is not working, the fuse supplying the voltage to that side may be blown. F2 (DC side of BR1) and F8 (AC side of BR1) fuse the 25V circuit. F4 (DC side of BR2) and F7 (AC side of BR2) fuse the 50V circuit. Another suspect is fractured solder joints on the A/C select relay. Reflowing these solder joints is simple. The A/C select relay is relatively heavy and it's weight puts stress on the solder connection at the printed circuit board.

I am going tear into the circuit tonight and see what I can find. Hopefully its as simple as a damaged trace. The board repair that was done previously was for a driver transistor so this would definitely make sense!

#11 7 years ago

Well we had break through last night. Followed this new lead on the A/C relay and found some cold solder joints. Reflowed and bam we are back in business. the machine is running at about 80% now! There are only 3 issues left.

1. None of the pop bumper are working. Prior to the A/C relay I could get the bottom one to fire in coil test, but now nothing. What I'm afraid of is the MPU board has had some repair work done to the Q75,Q76,Q77 transistors. They look like they have all 3 been replaced, but it looks like a real hack job. I am going to do some more reading on this to see where to start.

2. I still can't get the cabinet bell to work it was previously disconnected. I will try to get a pic of it in the next day or to to see if anyone can tell if I am missing a wire or something. It has to be something simple.

3. Weak left flipper. I am going to order a new coil and that should hopefully fix that issue.

Thanks again for everyones help I really appreciate it!

#12 7 years ago

Big pat on the back for what you're doing to make someone's life a little bit better.
I hope she's had other good people like you help her with the other stuff.

#13 7 years ago

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words.

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from Switch:

Well we had break through last night. Followed this new lead on the A/C relay and found some cold solder joints. Reflowed and bam we are back in business. the machine is running at about 80% now! There are only 3 issues left.
1. None of the pop bumper are working. Prior to the A/C relay I could get the bottom one to fire in coil test, but now nothing. What I'm afraid of is the MPU board has had some repair work done to the Q75,Q76,Q77 transistors. They look like they have all 3 been replaced, but it looks like a real hack job. I am going to do some more reading on this to see where to start.
2. I still can't get the cabinet bell to work it was previously disconnected. I will try to get a pic of it in the next day or to to see if anyone can tell if I am missing a wire or something. It has to be something simple.
3. Weak left flipper. I am going to order a new coil and that should hopefully fix that issue.
Thanks again for everyones help I really appreciate it!

Does the flipper coil look burnt or otherwise stressed? Weak flippers usually arent the coil.

#15 7 years ago

Agree... for the weak flipper... most likely you need to just rebuild all or some of the parts.

#16 7 years ago

You can test the resistance of the coil out of circuit. If it measures the same as flipper coils that work well then no need to replace it.

The bell is solenoid 13. Test voltage at the bell during the solenoid test. If none there test connections and driver transistor Q15 as shown on page 29 in your manual.

#17 7 years ago

All the Mechanical parts of the flipper are brand new as of 3 days ago when I finished the mechanical rebuild of the main components. All parts are straight from Marco. The right functions perfectly the left is like a limp noodle and will barely hold the ball up on the flipper. I don't see any physical damage or burn marks on it, but it was all taped up with packing tape for some reason when I started on this job. I was going to try to put the meter to it and see what I get compared to the right and see where that leaves me. Probably won't get to work on it tonight but definitely tomorrow night.

#18 7 years ago

When you reassembled, did you flip the orientation of the coil?

#19 7 years ago

Did you replace the end of stroke switch? If not clean contacts, if you did is it adjusted properly?

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Did you replace the end of stroke switch? If not clean contacts, if you did is it adjusted properly?

The EOS looks fairly new so I didn't replace it on this one. It is properly oriented and working as it should.

Quoted from 27dnast:

When you reassembled, did you flip the orientation of the coil?

Flipper orientation is the same as it was when I took it off. I attached some pics of the problem areas and suspect parts. Maybe this will help.

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IMG_0369 (resized).JPGIMG_0369 (resized).JPG

#21 7 years ago

After looking at my pics this morning I am going to put a meter on that EOS switch and make sure I am getting a solid close. It does look a little sketch in the pic

#22 7 years ago

It looks like it might be open just a tad.

Did you clean the contacts with a business card?

#23 7 years ago

I checked for closure and function when I rebuilt the mech the other day but didn't clean them yet or put the meter to it to check for closure. I'm going to laugh if its an issue with the EOS. I keep jumping to more complicated causes when I just need to calm down and keep it simple. Keeping it simple just keeps escaping me on this repair. Not sure why this machine has me so psyched out. I will confirm everything tonight and hopefully its a simple fix with the EOS. As always thanks for the advice!

#24 7 years ago

Yep keep it simple. Sure enough I go home and investigate the EOS and it's the issue. Flipper in now working 100% All thats left

1. No Pop Bumpers working - Currently blowing the F3 fuse
2. No cabinet bell working - ?

As always thanks for the help

#25 7 years ago

Have continuity for the cabinet bell back to the boards?

As for pops... none are working?

#26 7 years ago

when i was working on my friends Pinbot, i had one that wouldn't fire, and would blow the fuse. it ended up being a zener, but with some other issues. Here is the thread you can read and see if it helps.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/things-to-look-for-on-pinbot

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Have continuity for the cabinet bell back to the boards?
As for pops... none are working?

I will do a continuity check and see. Haven't even had a chance to start on diagnosing the pops or the bell. Can anyone tell from the pics if the bells wiring looks correct?

#28 7 years ago

Not sure if that cap on the bell wiring is similar to the caps Bally used on their switches to help give the CPU time to "see" the switch closure or not, but I've had numerous instances, where changing that out, fixed problems. Those caps go bad quite often. I'd try clipping it first, and then replacing it, if after verifying continuity, and power to the coil are not issues.

#29 7 years ago

UPDATE:

Well we are on the home stretch. I found the issue with the bell. What I originally suspected was correct. It was wired incorrectly. Got that fixed and works perfectly.

Started on the pop bumpers and during test the upper left pop kicks on and stays on. Visually inspected the switch stack and can't find an issue there. I then put my meter on both blades of the switch just below the spoon and am reading continuity all the time no matter if both blades are actually touching or not. Trying to keep it simple, but I can't help but think that a driver transistor is shorted. I'm sure I could be missing some other causes in there, thoughts?

I am really close to having this fixed and am hoping to deliver it this weekend if possible.

#30 7 years ago

I think you're Probably right, but board diagnosis isn't my strong suit.

Do you have extra components laying around to make a quick swap?

#31 7 years ago

You can check the transistor with your multimeter... read through pinwiki

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from Switch:

UPDATE:
Well we are on the home stretch. I found the issue with the bell. What I originally suspected was correct. It was wired incorrectly. Got that fixed and works perfectly.
Started on the pop bumpers and during test the upper left pop kicks on and stays on. Visually inspected the switch stack and can't find an issue there. I then put my meter on both blades of the switch just below the spoon and am reading continuity all the time no matter if both blades are actually touching or not. Trying to keep it simple, but I can't help but think that a driver transistor is shorted. I'm sure I could be missing some other causes in there, thoughts?
I am really close to having this fixed and am hoping to deliver it this weekend if possible.

The transistor is a good start. Also check the small capacitor on the switch stack, These often dry out.

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from Ronnie1114:

The transistor is a good start. Also check the small capacitor on the switch stack, These often dry out.

I was wondering if the capacitor might be part of the issue, but I don't have a way to measure the capacitance of the cap. I have a feeling that the transistor is the issue because someone tried to repair it previously and probably screwed it up. The board looks really hot in that area so idk. I might pull it out and see whats the damage and if I have to send it out to be repaired if its really bad. At this point it is working 98% and ready for her to enjoy for a bit till I get the board figured out. The state her games were in before I started with one pop not working it might as well be a NIB for her. I am going to try to order several transistors and see what happens when I replace them, but that will probably be a while. The game is going back to her on Sunday so she can enjoy it for a while till I get parts in.

Anyone know what are good replacements for those driver transistors?

#34 7 years ago

You can desolder the one cap leg from the switch to rule it out. If it doesn't lock on after removing the leg the cap is bad.

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