My original post got sent to the Buying Advise area. If you want to see that, it is here:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/target-pool-gottlieb-project-auction-opinions

I have started the clean up process. I pulled the relay/switches board, stripped it, and gave it multiple coats of clear lacquer and tried as best I could to clean things up. Here are some before/after pics.

BOARD.jpg

There is a lot of rust all over. Since I'm trying to do this on a tight budget, I tried using white vinegar to deal with the rust. I let the parts soak for 24 hours and hit them with a toothbrush. Then I hit them with a coat of clear lacquer. The results are not bad. (Advise: Get the house brand white vinegar from the grocery store for $2.50 gal. The hardware has the balls to price white vinegar for $10.00 gal.).

Here is the shooter. Not show quality, but it looks presentable.

SHOOTER 1.jpg

Here is the right flipper rod.

SHOOTER.jpg

And the left

LEFT FLIPPER ROD.jpg

I also soaked one of the coin chutes.

CLEAN CHUTE.JPG

The parts are not show quality, but I think I can get this machine cleaned up with about 2 gal. of vinegar.

Now I have a couple of questions:

Are the points for the Slam-Tilt normally opened or closed? These are closed. Is this correct?

SLAM TILT POINTS.JPG

I had three labels laying loose on the relays board when I pulled it from the cab. They gotta go somewhere. Can anybody give me an idea for locations for these labels?

LABELS.JPG

Tomorrow I need to go shopping for fuses. One is missing and none of the other five fuses are of correct amperage. They are all over-amped. If I can find the fuses locally(without spending a fortune), I should be able to return the board to the cab and power up and see if this pin is going to work.

Wish me luck.

Things are progressing. I have a new floor in the cab bottom. Because mice had been living here I decided to paint the inside of the cab white with an undercoat of KILLS in hopes of sealing any possible foul smells the mice might have caused.

I cleaned up the the relays board. All the stepper units rotate and move freely. That made me feel real good. All of the wiring is intact; it is good luck that the mice left the wiring alone.

I have some more minor work on the cab, I need to get it fused properly, and I need to splice in a new power cord. Then I will be ready to load the play field and see if I can get it to run.

I took all the rusty metal parts off of the cab and soaked them in a 5 gallon bucket with 3 gallons of white vinegar poured in. The vinegar is not toxic but it carries enough acidity that it does a fairly good job of loosening up the rust. And then with a stainless steel wire brush, some scotchbrite and dish soap the rust just scrubbed away.

The parts are not show quality. No where near that, but the ugly rust is mostly gone. Where the rust was heavy and ate the chrome away I was left was areas that are pitted and black. Not primo, but better then rust. All for $7.50 worth of white vinegar. And a spray can of clear lacquer to try and seal the cleaned up parts.

I have 3 wires on the coin door that are not attached. Two wires are orange and twisted together and one wire black. I don't see anywhere for them to go. Any help ID'ing these wires will be appreciated. Here is a pic of the wires in question.

Can someone direct me to locating a schematic for this machine?

IMG_1182.JPG

And here are some more before/after pics with the rusty metal. And the new cab floor.

Screen Shot 2014-05-02 at 8.17.58 PM.jpg

Coin Door.

Screen Shot 2014-05-02 at 8.24.13 PM.jpg

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And there is power !! And it is troubleshooting time.

When I turn on the power switch:

1) the GI lights light up. This is the only good. The rest is bad.

2) A stepper unit in the cab starts spinning and will not stop. I have the offending unit marked with orange tape in this pic.

Wheel 2.JPG

3) The score counter will not reset to zero. It is stuck on 900. See pic.

B-BOX 2.JPG

4) The replay counter starts and will not stop until 15 credits are given i.e. it will click/spin until it has no rotation left.
I turn the machine off and manually reset the replay counter to zero. As soon I turn on the power switch the counter immediately starts rolling up credits again.

5 ) Manually tripping the 25 cents switch offers no action. The small push button in the middle of the coin door (the start switch I assume ?) offers no action. The target switches, slingshots, and flippers do not work.

I don't have any troubleshooting chops built up yet with EMs. I have looked a little bit at pin repair.com but not sure which way to go yet.

Can anyone throw out some ideas that I can look into and try for the fix? Do I need to get the multi-meter dusted off? Thanks in advance.

I cleaned 30 years of dust off the the target switches. The play field is going to clean up nice.

Table low.JPG

long view 2.JPG

Here is where I am at now after doing much reading on anything I could google up. Hopefully, I am learning the names of the parts so at least when I ask a dumb question maybe I can sound halfway intelligent about it

Here is the problem: My score motor does not stop turning. There is one other issue and I don't know if is a problem, or not.

Here are some of the things I have done, so far.

1) I got the schematic from PBR, a flexstone, and an adjuster for the points. I'm an old line car mechanic; Wiring diagrams are what I am used to. I build aircraft for a living and I read blueprints, however, learning to read the schematic will take some time.

2) With the flexstone, I have cleaned the points on all of the switches and relays in the bottom of the cab. This includes all points in the score motor, a reset bank and several relays. A couple of the point blades in the relays were not in correct position so I fixed those.

3) I removed the score reels, disassembled and cleaned them including plungers and sleeves. Also cleaned and checked all points for proper action. The points open and close correctly. The score reels go to zero when I turn the game on. I don't see any problems with the score reels. Not saying there are no problems with the reels;Just saying that I don't see any problems here.

4) Since I did many things all at once, I don't know just what I did to fix the credit unit but it no longer racks up credits as soon as I turn the game on.

When I turn the game on the first issue I have is two relays in the cab start clicking constantly. I don't know if these relays are supposed to click this, or not. I discovered that if I manually open a set of points on the coin door these two relays will stop clicking. These points appear to be normally closed. They are located right behind the points for the start button. I assume they are a slam tilt of some sort. The two relays in question are the "Extra Chute Relay" and the "2 Play Relay". Here is a pic of the relays and the coin door points.

START SW:Cab relays.jpg

The next issue is that the start motor will not stop turning. But here is what I have found out. On the bottom of the play field there is a bank of relays called a "Sequence Bank". On this Sequence Bank there is a relay called the "Bank Reset Relay". There is one set of points on this Bank Set Relay that are normally closed. If I open this pair of points then the score motor will stop spinning. With these points blocked with a piece of tape, the score motor will not spin.

As I said earlier, I'm still trying to learn to read the schematic. Blocking these points just stops the score motor from spinning. I don't know what these points are controlling so I am at a loss on where to look next. I can't start a game , or anything.

Any thoughts on where I need to look next will be appreciated.

Here is a pic of the blocked out points.

Bank Reset Relay #1.JPG

Ok. Thanks. I found the problem with the two relays that were clicking. Some fish paper between the start button blade and coin door was missing. I jury rigged some insulating material and the clicking relays went silent.

On the schematic, I found the score motor 'M' and switches you referenced. I have questions about how the switches are drawn up but I have to study on this for awhile. I'll be back when I have a better understanding and after I have played with some switches some more.

OK, here is the latest.

1) I reversed the mounting of the back box. I did this so I could get everything plugged in for what I am about to show. Next, I have the base board with all the switches sitting on top of the cab and the play field is laying sideways. This allows everything to be plugged in and I have room to access all the switches etc.

Like this.

Table.JPG
B Box reversed.JPG

Then I removed much of the tie-string and partially unbundled the cables. I did this so I could physically trace all the wires and have vision of how it all ties together and how it matches the schematic (call it a 3-D wiring diagram, I guess).

Per dirtflipper's post, I found the motor 'M' on the schematic and the relevant switches. The switches are W, A, B, O, S, SB, and Motor 1C.

W = Extra Chute Relay
A = 50 Point Relay
B = 300 Point Relay
O = Ball Return Relay
S = Start Relay (#1)……..there are two Start Relays
SB = Start Relay (#2)….this relay is located in the reset bank.
Motor 1C = Motor 1C

Here is the pic of schematic.

schematic.JPG

Where I am have a real head scratcher is with relay SB, Start Relay #2. SB is on the reset bank. I have physically traced all the wires, and the wires that per the schematic should be routed to SB are, in reality, wired to 'T', the Tilt Relay. If I manually open the points on the Tilt Relay the score motor will stop.

But until I can figure out why the schematic calls for SB to be wired and I actually have the Tilt really wired I am stuck.

in this pic you will see the SB relay and the Tilt relay. I have the wire in question marked with a tie wrap and some orange tape. This wire comes straight from the motor. It looks like a factory solder connection and not molested in any way.

So, my burning questions are:
1) Why is my machine actually wired to 'T' and not 'SB' like the schematic shows?

and
2) What do I do about it?

Tilt Relay.JPG

Yes. This is based on the wire colors called on the schematic. The wire color is Orange-Blue. Two OR-BL wires lead off from the motor. One OR-BL wire leads to the W, A, B, O, S, and Motor 1C switches. The other OR-BL wire leads to the 'T' relay instead of the 'SB' relay. I don't think any of the wiring has been molested at the reset bank. It looks factory.

All I have been able to do, so far, is stop the Extra Chute and 2 Play relays from clicking.

Here is what I have:

1) I can manually roll up some scores on the score reels and they will reset to zero when I push the 'on' button.

2) The score motor starts turning as soon as I power up. The GI lights light up.

2) The Reset Bank will reset and also cause the switch bank under the play field to reset.

3) Pushing on the start button does nothing--I cannot get a game started.

4) Closing the coin switches does not add any games to the credit wheel.

Earlier, I mentioned a Sequence Bank Relay on the bottom of the play field . This relay is part of the same wiring circuit as the 'T' relay. Opening a pair of points on either of these relays will stop the motor, but nothing else.

Next up, I am going to take some matchbooks and block all the points on the relevant switches and see what I can isolate that way.

But I wanted to run this 'SB' and 'T' relay wiring issue and see if anybody might know what is up with that.

I'm gonna solve this sucker, eventually. I mean machine is not dead and it has a beautiful play field which makes it worth the effort, IMO. Plus, the youtube video makes it look like it is a kick ass game to play. I already have all the tools and supplies I need. The only thing I am going to be out of is some of my time--so why not? It may take awhile but I'm going to learn this stuff. I'll get it going eventually.

OK, thanks to all of you for the info. I see my mistake in reading the schematic for 'T'. I have found the black jumper wire. So the 'T/SB' item is not an issue.

I don't recall 'Tilt' being lit up. I'll need to check the Tilt bulbs as well as some other items mentioned here. I'll be back when I have something new. It might be a few days.

Thanks again.

As I continue to learn how the EM stuff operates, here is where I am currently at.

The switches/relays discussed earlier, W, A, B, S, SB, and Motor 1C are all working correctly. By correctly, I mean the score motor will rotate until the 'MOTOR 1C' switch achieves its normal state which is normally open. The problem is somewhere in the 'T'--Tilt relay circuit that is having a constant current feed to the score motor.

So, the question is finding a stuck switch or a short. I'm still studying and learning to read the schematic and to my novice eye, it looks like damn near every circuit and every switch feeds thru the 'T' relay !!

In an effort to try and isolate the cause I have disconnected both the back box and the coin door. With both back box and coin door out of the loop, the problem with the 'T' relay circuit feeding constant current to the motor still exists. This leads me to believe that my problem is somewhere on the play field.

Here is a pic of the bottom third of the schematic. The switches surrounded with blue rectangle all check good. The two switches/relays inside the red rectangle is where the problem is and it looks like every wire and every switch on the schematic feeds thru the two switches inside that red rectangle. There are 30 standup targets on this play field (sigh).

If anybody sees something I am doing wrong or has any thoughts to share, I'm all ears. I the meantime, I am just going to start plugging away one switch at a time.

Gottlieb .jpeg

Yes, 'D' is part of the Sequence Bank attached to the underside of the play field. 'D' is called Bank Set Relay that I mentioned earlier. ( Man, so much of this communication depends on me being able to call out the parts correctly.)

OK, thanks for sharing the system logic. I will reconnect the back box.

There are a lot of black dots on this schematic. I can count the number of intersecting lines with no black dot on one hand. But I have black dots everywhere else. You name it. 4 tilt switches, 15 bulls eye targets, 15 target switches, 4 slingshots, 2 flippers, 4 score reels, everything is black dotting its way to the 'T' and 'D' switches I hi-lighted in red. . The part of the schematic I put up is the lower 1/3rd. You should see the upper 2/3rds. I allow that I am still struggling to learn to read a schematic and I could be looking at it all wrong but all of these black dots look like everything is funneling to 'T' and 'D'.

I got an idea. I'll do some more scanning and show a more complete picture.

I rally appreciate you taking the time to coach me. Thank you.

Yes. That helps. Or, at least, I think it does I'll study on what you said for awhile.

Will do. Look for a PM.

OK. I got Target Pool running today. How? I cheated. I put up a "pinball tech wanted" on CL. Part of the ad stated that instructing me how to read schematics was part of the deal.

The guy came by today. It took him 3 hours to run the traps. Turned out it was a pair of dirty contacts on the ball counter unit. I think I cleaned every pair of points on this machine----except those. I watched him and played third hand helper when he needed. He earned his money.

Now that I am running, next up is to get my parts list compiled and give PBR a call.