After I push the start button to start a game I noticed that some of the score reels will NOT reset all the way to zero unless the ball is in the kicker hole. Once the ball is in the kicker hole, the score reels will reset to zero and the ball will get kicked out to the trough like normal and the game will start fine. But if the ball is not in the hole, the score reels will not fully reset to the zero position until I place the ball in the kicker hole. .

I checked on my other EMs and they can all reset to zero without the ball being in the kicker hole. So was just wondering if this is a issue or by game design.

Thank you

#2 2 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Boulder, CO

7y 78,050 6,251

OP
Quoted from tscottn:
After I push the start button to start a game I noticed that some of the score reels will NOT reset all the way to zero unless the ball is in the kicker hole.

Assuming you mean the outhole, As I understand the schematic,

Pressing the Replay button activates the Start relay (S)
The S relay trips the Start relay (SB) on the Control bank
The armature switch on SB resets the Sequence bank (and the Control bank)
The Sequence bank latches the Bank Reset relay (D) on the Sequence bank
The D relay resets the all 4 score reels

So, no, the ball doesn't need to be in the outhole for the score reels to reset, especially if the score reels react differently to the ball being in the outhole.

#3 2 years ago

TIM

TimMe

Vintage Coin-Op Repair

Seattle, WA

9y 62,900 897

This behavior is not correct. The score should reset even if there is no ball in the game.

From the symptom you are describing, it sounds to me like the score motor isn't running when the D (bank reset) relay is latched, which is what causes all of the score units to reset. The D relay is on the sequence bank, mounted on the underside of the playboard. There is a switch on the D relay that closes when the D relay is latched (in the up position) to run the score motor.

There is also a switch on the T (tilt) relay that must be closed when the T relay is latched (up position) for the score motor to run during the reset. The T relay is on the control bank, mounted on the bottom board.

If I had this issue, the first thing I would do is check to be sure that both the control relay bank and the sequence relay bank are seated properly in their side brackets. When these bank relay frames get loose in their brackets, it can prevent the proper actuation of the switches on the relays.

If the banks are properly seated in their brackets and you still have the problem, clean and adjust the D and T switches mentioned above to see if that clears things up. If that doesn't fix it, check for a loose wire at the solder lugs of those switches.

- TimMe

#4 2 years ago

???

tscottn

Pinside+ Frequent

Spring, TX

5y 63,800 486 6 1

Quoted from HowardR:
Assuming you mean the outhole, As I understand the schematic,

Pressing the Replay button activates the Start relay (S)
The S relay trips the Start relay (SB) on the Control bank
The armature switch on SB resets the Sequence bank (and the Control bank)
The Sequence bank latches the Bank Reset relay (D) on the Sequence bank
The D relay resets the all 4 score reels
So, no, the ball doesn't need to be in the outhole for the score reels to reset, especially if the score reels react differently to the ball being in the outhole.

thank you.. yes the outhole is what I meant..

#5 2 years ago

???

tscottn

Pinside+ Frequent

Spring, TX

5y 63,800 486 6 1

Quoted from TimMe:
This behavior is not correct. The score should reset even if there is no ball in the game.
From the symptom you are describing, it sounds to me like the score motor isn't running when the D (bank reset) relay is latched, which is what causes all of the score units to reset. The D relay is on the sequence bank, mounted on the underside of the playboard. There is a switch on the D relay that closes when the D relay is latched (in the up position) to run the score motor.
There is also a switch on the T (tilt) relay that must be closed when the T relay is latched (up position) for the score motor to run during the reset. The T relay is on the control bank, mounted on the bottom board.
If I had this issue, the first thing I would do is check to be sure that both the control relay bank and the sequence relay bank are seated properly in their side brackets. When these bank relay frames get loose in their brackets, it can prevent the proper actuation of the switches on the relays.
If the banks are properly seated in their brackets and you still have the problem, clean and adjust the D and T switches mentioned above to see if that clears things up. If that doesn't fix it, check for a loose wire at the solder lugs of those switches.
- TimMe

Ok great info as well. Thank you. I know the relay banks are seated properly, I will start by looking at the relays you mentioned and report back.

#6 2 years ago

???

tscottn

Pinside+ Frequent

Spring, TX

5y 63,800 486 6 1

Thanks to your help TimMe and HowardR I was able to fix the issue. By looking at both the D and T relay you can easily see where each switch should be either closed or open depending on if the relay is tripped or not. I was able to identify that both relays had misaligned switches either not making contact or making contact when they should not depending on the relays position. After adjust each switch and cleaning them as well the game now resets as it should . Thank you guys for the help.

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