(Topic ID: 177160)

Target Alpha player advancing issues

By BenB

7 years ago

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#1 7 years ago

As the title says I've got a Target Alpha with player advancing issues. The pin goes through the reset sequence fine and throws the ball out. In a 1 player game After playing ball 1, it drains and will advance to ball 2 on a different players score reels. After ball 2 is drained, it will randomly start scoring ball 3 on another player. Also after resetting the game I press the reset button to add additional players and doesn't do anything. The Player and Coin unit operate very "freely" and "crisp", and I cleaned the rivets and "snowshoes".
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

#2 7 years ago

Hi BenB
great - the pin starts and resets and kicks out the ball --- we assume the Backbox shows "ONE can Play, Player-1 Score is up / lighted, Ball-1 in play is lighted - the pin is in "Gottlieb Home-Position".
See here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gtlb-spirit-of-76-startup-problem#post-3401318 look ONLY at the second JPG/ picture - the Gottlieb Player Unit in "Home-Position means Player-1-Ball-1. My "green line" is an extension - look in Your pin - see how the fifth cam with the one and only tooth does lift the switchstack.

See here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic/page/2#post-3162018 the second and the third JPG - the five cams - the switches P1G, P2G, P3G, P4G, P5G are the top-switches in the switchstacks.

In my JPG (here) we see encircled orange P2G, P3G, P4G - they must be clean and operate well.

The Gottlieb Player-Unit is a combination of stepping through the Players as well as stepping through the Balls.
Home-Position also is Player-1-Ball-1 is P1-B1. A step further is P2-B1, then comes P3-B1, P4-B1, P1-B2, P2-B2, P3-B2, P4-B2, P1-B3 etc.

Here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic/page/2#post-3175267 the fourth JPG - an animation of starting a 1-Player-Game, then starting a 2-Player-Game then starting a 3-Player-Game then starting a 4-Player-Game.
See that in a 4-Player-Game there is NO connection inside the Coin-Unit.

We have started a 4-Player-Game - see my JPG - no connection in the Coin-Unit (we have started a 4-Player-Game) - of the switches P2G, P3G, P4G, Score-Motor-2C ONLY Motor-2C have influence to "Coil on Add Player-Unit". So start a ONE-Player-Game - the pin resets then kicks out the ball - NOW step on the Coin-Unit to a FOUR-Player-Game - then play - question: Does the pin nicely steps through all the players through all the ball - means: CAN YOU play a FOUR-Player-Game ?
If "Yes, can play a 4-Player-Game": We then look at a ONE-Player-Game.
If "No, cannot play a 4-Player-Game": Write what happens - I want to stick to "lets make a 4-Player-Game running satisfactory.

In Switzerland it is 10 minutes past midnight - time to go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

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#3 7 years ago

Thanks for the quick response Rolf! I will go through this in the morning and see if we can get this thing back in order.

#4 7 years ago

One thing Ive noted about these 4p games... the switch stacks can be loose on the player unit, make sure to tighten them up and some of your randomness may go away.

#5 7 years ago

I beleive I've got it narrowed down to something in the Coin Unit. After a game over pressing the reset button, the game goes through the its sequence and shows 1 can play ball 1. After pressing the reset button again, it will not add additional players. I can get all 4 players to light and go through a complete game (3 Balls) by manually stepping up the coin unit. The contacts on the Coin unit look good but I am not sure if the unit itself is in the correct home position. I was also wondering about these contacts on the front of the Coin unit.

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#6 7 years ago

after finishing a game, the 4 can play light stays illuminated, as shown in photo below.

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#7 7 years ago
Quoted from BenB:

after finishing a game, the 4 can play light stays illuminated, as shown in photo below.

That "4 Can Play" may be normal. Part of the Game Over attraction mode. Which should also have a flashing bulb in the Game Over location.

On the Solar City the "2 Can Play" lights up. In Game Over.

#8 7 years ago

Hi Ben
great - You can (manually step the Coin-Unit to a 4-Player-Game and) play a 4-Player-Game through the Balls to "Game-Over". A post to come on "problems in stepping in a 1-Player-Game".

This post is about "after a 1-Player-Game has started --- pressing the 'Replay-Button (Start-Button)' does NOT start for a 2-Player-Game".

Have a good look at the "AX-(Interlock, TWO coils mounted)-Relay" when You start a 1-Player-Game. The AX-Relay will pull / move when You start a 1-Player-Game - then the pin does reset and towards the end of the Reset-Procedure: The AX-Relay MOVES in the OTHER direction. It is an Interlock-Type-Relay --- we say the AX-Relay does reset --- question: DOES it reset towards the end of Starting an 1-Player-Game ?

See the JPG - encircled green: The AX-Relay RESETS (at end of starting a 1-Player-Game) to "as drawn in the JPG".

Pressing the Replay-Button again (for to start a game for a 2nd-Player) must make the S-Start-Relay pull in AND the Score-Motor to turn. Question: In Your pin ? The turning Score-Motor will close (encircled blue) its switch --- and the "Add Coin Unit Coil" should fire.

The question is: DOES the "Add Coin Unit Coil" FIRE when we make a connection with an Jumper-Wire" ? ATTENTION, DANGER: We want to use a Jumper-Wire on the "hot / power side" of 24VAC !!! Use a Jumper-Wire with INSULATED gator-clips - OR: ONLY grab the insulated wire when using the Jumper-Wire.
Toggle-off the pin (Safety Reasons) - clip-on the gator-clip of the Jumper-Wire at "Coil on Coin-Unit-STEP-UP-Side, where wire-color-green-mingled-with-red is soldered-on". Take the other end to "Fuse-Holder-24VAC" and lay the gator-clip on wood - NOT TOUCHING METAL.
Toggle-on, start a 1-Player-Game - pin resets and kicks-out the ball - pin now idles.
Grab the insulation of the Jumper-Wire (NOT: gator-clip) and tip-on at "Fuse-Holder-side-wire-color-RED-GREEN-is-soldered-on (NOT: Side-color-RED - we want the fuse IN OUR CIRCUITRY !!!). Question: DOES the "Add Coin Unit Coil" FIRE ? Please report --- depending on Your answer: The next tests are "way ABC" ore are "way DEF", greetings Rolf

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#9 7 years ago

Hi Ben
this post is about "problems in stepping in a 1-Player-Game" --- I want to troubleshoot in small steps - by now I want to look at the stepping in a 3-Player-Game.

WRITE if the following text is NOT true:
Ben can start a ONE-Player-Game - the Coin Unit (how many players want to participate Unit) steps down to Position-1-Player - the Score-Drums reset, the Ball is kicked over to the shooter alley. Ben MANUALLY steps the Coin Unit up to a 4-Player-Game (Backglass shows "4 can Play"). Ben then plays a FOUR-Player-Game - nice through ALL Players, ALL Balls - the pin then reaches "Game-Over".

I assume this is true - so start a ONE-Player-Game - then MANUALLY step the Coin Unit to a THREE-Player-Game (visible in the Backglass: "3 can Play").
Play P1-B1 (MAKE some points on the Score-Drums) then loose the Ball - question: DOES the pin makes ONE step to P2-B1 ? WRITE if it steps Zero steps or 2,3,4,5,6 ... steps.
AFTER Player-2 played Ball-1 and looses the Ball - question: DOES the pin makes ONE step to P3-B1 ? WRITE if ...
AFTER Player-3 played Ball-1 and looses the Ball - question: DOES the pin makes TWO steps to P1-B2 ? It shall make one step to P4-B1 and immediately afterwards make the step to P1-B2 (kind of hopping over P4-B1). I would be pleased if the pin makes TWO steps. IF (if, if) the pin only makes ONE step: BE NICE and helpful and MANUALLY step to P1-B2 - then play on and watch if the EXACTLY SAME FAULT shows up at end of P3-B2 (not stepping correctly to P1-B3).

IF (if) You can play a 3-Player-Game: Want to try a "TWO-Player-Game" ?

See the JPG - "red line": In a 4-Player-Game the turning Score-Motor closes 5 times its switch (SCM-1A) --- the turning Score-Motor closes at a time the Score-Motor-Switch-2C - at this time SCM-1A AND SCM-2C are BOTH CLOSED - a shot of electricity can pass - reach the coil on Player-Unit and the Unit makes a step.
In a 3-Player-Game at some time the "DARK-blue line" lets (additional) pass a shot of electricity.
In a 2-Player-Game ... "DARK-blue line" ... AND "LIGHT-blue line" ...
In a 1-Player-Game ... "DARK-blue line" ... AND "LIGHT-blue line" ... AND "GREEN line" ...

So I would like to stick to "lets make a THREE-Player-Game running, greetings Rolf

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