(Topic ID: 246782)

Target Alpha help needed, puts two sequential balls out


By tomtest

4 months ago



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  • 13 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by tomtest
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Target Alpha Ball Return relay (resized).jpg
Scan--20190708.pdf (PDF preview)

#1 4 months ago

I just bought a Target Alpha EM and on ball #1 it puts out a ball in play and when finished it puts out another ball, after the first ball none of the drop targets reset, it's like it has awarded you an extra ball and it does the same for ball 2, 3, 4, on ball #5 it only puts out one ball as normal. I would appreciate any suggestions.

#2 4 months ago

Hopefully an EM guy will chime in, but check the outhole and shooter lane switches. Is there one more in between? I don't remember but it's got to be in that area.

#3 4 months ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Hopefully an EM guy will chime in, but check the outhole and shooter lane switches. Is there one more in between? I don't remember but it's got to be in that area.

Thanks, I checked those switches and they are fine.

#4 4 months ago

Thats a Gottlieb and I cannot access a schematic without paying. If you have one look at the ball advance unit and lets see what circuits must close to make the ball count unit step up.
For now, look in the backbox for the ball count unit, see if it's stuck or sticky in need of a cleaning.

#5 4 months ago

Can you elaborate on the problem? After ball 1 drains, it serves up another ball but doesn't reset the targets and doesn't advance to ball 2. But then you say it does the same thing on ball 2. How do you get to ball 2? Is the behavior the same on a 1 player game as on a multi player game?

What should happen is that when the ball drains it gets kicked into the shooter lane. On the way to the shooter lane the ball closes the Trough switch which should fire the P/Add Player Unit relay. Switches on the P relay should in turn fire the Player Unit 1-3 times (depending on the number of players) and reset the target banks.

What are your P relay and Player Unit doing when the ball drains?

/Mark

#6 4 months ago

I have the schematics for this and can take pics if you need. Fair warning, my phone camera is a potato.

#7 4 months ago

Hi
ooups - sorry - wrong topic. Greetings Rolf

#8 4 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Can you elaborate on the problem? After ball 1 drains, it serves up another ball but doesn't reset the targets and doesn't advance to ball 2. But then you say it does the same thing on ball 2. How do you get to ball 2? Is the behavior the same on a 1 player game as on a multi player game?
What should happen is that when the ball drains it gets kicked into the shooter lane. On the way to the shooter lane the ball closes the Trough switch which should fire the P/Add Player Unit relay. Switches on the P relay should in turn fire the Player Unit 1-3 times (depending on the number of players) and reset the target banks.
What are your P relay and Player Unit doing when the ball drains?
/Mark

It looks like the issue is that when the ball drains and enters and operates the ball return switch, the ball immediately fires into the shooter lane and on it's way operates the trough switch, so the "P" coil and Player Unit never operate because of how fast the ball gets shot into the shooter lane, this is the failure mode during the initial ball, the bonus unit runs and stops maybe in the 8th,9th,10th, etc position and never gets reset, all drop targets stay down and they don't reset, the 2nd ball is there waiting in the shooter lane, if you play it everything resets as normal, which I think is due to the fact that the bonus unit is already near the end of it's travel and it gets reset as normal, all targets reset and life is good. This scenario happens with each of the 5 balls. On the first ball of each series I can drop some targets manually then push the ball return switch manually, the P and Player Units operate and the bonus unit runs to it's stopping point, if I then push the trough switch everything works as normal so it appears to be a timing issue, the ball is shot into the shooter lane way too fast.

#9 4 months ago

Here is the partial schematicScan--20190708.pdf

#10 4 months ago

is there only one ball in the trough? should be one ball game

MJR

#11 4 months ago

So the ball is sent to the shooter lane before the bonus has finished counting? That makes a little more sense.
Target Alpha Ball Return relay (resized).jpg
When the ball drains, the Ball Return switch closes but the O/Ball Return relay shouldn't fire until the bonus has finished counting. There are two Make/Break switches that might explain why your Ball Return relay is firing too soon. They're circled in red. One is on the Bonus Unit and the other is on the DX/1st Ball relay. Have a close look at those two switches, their contacts and solder tabs to see if either one of them has a side that is always closed.

#12 4 months ago
Quoted from MJR8peanut:

is there only one ball in the trough? should be one ball game
MJR

Yes, only one ball.

#13 4 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

So the ball is sent to the shooter lane before the bonus has finished counting? That makes a little more sense.
[quoted image]
When the ball drains, the Ball Return switch closes but the O/Ball Return relay shouldn't fire until the bonus has finished counting. There are two Make/Break switches that might explain why your Ball Return relay is firing too soon. They're circled in red. One is on the Bonus Unit and the other is on the DX/1st Ball relay. Have a close look at those two switches, their contacts and solder tabs to see if either one of them has a side that is always closed.

SUCCESS, Mark, The ball return relay was getting energized from the form C contact on the DX relay, I shoved an insulator in the normally closed contact after starting ball #1 and the ball return relay did not operate, it was a careful adjustment of that form C contact. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and kudos to Mark. Tom

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