Hi Eric
I do have an copy of the schematics - LOW resolution - very hard to read.
I show it - I do not believe that the Score-Motor-Switches SCM-2D, SCM-3B do help on (faulty) scoring --- I believe (upwards in the schematics): They have to do with "resetting at start-up".

When the pin reaches "LAST ball on first player": The K-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling and informs us "Bonus counted down will reward double", At the same time the BX-Last-Ball-Relay pulls-in. So I want to see on the "activating the 1000-point-relay (is activated when the bonus is counted down (?) ): A switch on K-Relay*** or maybe a switch on BX-Relay MAKING the 1000-point-relay actuate TWO times when Bonus is transported to Score-Drums.

BUT IN MY lousy copy: I do not see such switch(es) - question: Do YOU have a good schematics and FIND such switch(es) ?

The List of "Relays used" tells us : K-Relay*** has ONE Switch mounted on the relay - an Normally-Closed-Switch - type "B" ? (((I would like to have an Normally-Open-Switch, type 'A' - anyway))) --- WHERE in the schematics is this switch ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi Eric
in my Surf Champ the "K-Bonus-Score-Relay" is pulling, the Score-Motor runs and pulses SCM-1A, 8B is "Triple-Bonus-Switch", 10B is "Double Bonus Relay" --- I would like to see SUCH things in the Target Alpha schematics. Greetings Rolf

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There should be a key (table) on the schematic showing the location of all the relays. So, look up "K" on it and it should reflect 19-H.

Hi SirScott
Yes - the Gottlieb schematics have a list --- BUT the locations / positions are the locations of the COIL of the relays - i was asking for position of a SWITCH mounted on a relay (((One reason I like to work on rather new Williams pins: The excellent manual to look-up all relays and all their switches))).

Hi Eric
I was wrong in post-2 --- You are right "post-1": SCM-2D, SCM-3B HAVE to do with getting single bonus or getting double bonus.

Thanks for Your snippet of schematics (post-4) - I use it --- and I ask You for MORE: Please show the timing chart of YOUR schematics --- please show "my JPG here, encircled red area" - so I can look-up instead of "guessing".

I happen to "NEVER have seen an Target Alpha" - I studied ipdb and the schematics, my "findings":
Surf Champ is a nice pin - has a CONVENTIONAL Bonus Ladder / Bonus Unit: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=34778 (((having 4 or 8 or 12 bonus on the ladder - when loosing the ball: Bonus-Ladder is counted down / stepping down starting in position 4 or 8 or 12))).
The TA-Bonus-Unit (Target Alpha Bonus-Unit) is DIFFERENT. You hit a drop-target and it plunges - gives some points and when beeing dropped completely: A Switch for the Information-Light is closed, stay closed --- and a second Switch is closed, stay closed --- NO STEPPING ON A UNIT.
You loose a ball (single bonus is active): JPG, "rosa-pink": First-Ball-Relay has moved, "encircled green" makes the TA-Bonus-Unit STEP through ALL positions - THEN "encircled light-blue" finally makes the Ball kicked over to the shooter alley - on its way the ball makes "encircled dark-blue" the Player-Unit step.
Conclusion: ALWAYS the TA-Bonus-Unit is stepped through ALL positions - the pulling "Bonus-Score-Control-Relay---relay-G" makes the Score-Motor run and run and run - several turns.

You can watch and listen (single bonus is active) - The Motor turns rhythmically - the TA-Bonus is stepped one after one after one after one - rhythmically --- IF (if) on a position the "Information-Light" is lit: NOW for THIS position You get 1000 points on the Score-Drum by activating the L-1000-Point-Relay. IF (if) on a position the light is NOT lit: No points given. See my JPG "marked red" with THREE drop-targets dropped.

I believe, I guess and so I ask for "Snippet of schematics (encircled red): ONE of the Score-Motor-Switches in the line makes the L-1000-Point-Relay pull-in ONCE. As in "single bonus" the stepping*** through the TA-Bonus-Unit is FAST: The SECOND Score-Motor-Switch there cannot make the L-1000-Point-Relay pull-in the SECOND time - no, no, no - NOT enough time for a second 1000 points. The stepping is shown "encircled orange".

WHEN there is "DOUBLE Bonus active": The pulling K-Relay OPENS a switch and this makes the stepping*** the TA-Bonus-Unit stutter / stop and go --- NOW there is TIME ENOUGH for the SECOND activating L-1000-Point-Relay (in my red wiring).

"TimMe" writes about masking pulses here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/surf-champ-1k-bonus-vs-1k-1k-bonus#post-3566563 , I would like to see a good JPG of Score-Motor-Timing-Chart --- as well a snippet of "my encircled red" area, greetings Rolf

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The "Relays" table shows location of the relay coil on the schematic and the switch types; unfortunately not the switch locations.

Here's the Target Alpha timing chart and snipppet requested:

Capture (resized).JPG

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Does the K "Double Bonus Relay" operate when the game gets to ball 3? It's in the 6VAC section of the circuit.

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Hi Eric and woz
I live in Switzerland (south of Germany) - here it is past midnight, time to go to sleep. woz: THANKS for the Sequence Chart and the snippet of schematics. Studying and then writing will take some time - so: tomorrow --- greetings Rolf
P.S.: I probably will write in many words something like "crazy solution by Gottlieb" - clean and adjust Score-Motor-Switches" - but want to think it over - and another attempt for "to fully understand" - and again and again and again.

I like the way you think Rolf! I am like you, I prefer to analyze and understand the circuit, then try and pinpoint the offending switch rather than suggest the "clean and adjust every switch" approach.

Hi Eric, woz +
I am close to desperate - THIS post I ONLY write about a "non-perfect solution / work-around".
When You say "I waive - I go without DOUBLE Bonus" - I accept: EVERY ball gets SINGLE Bonus: You can play and You can use the pin in a tournament - as EVERY player has the same situation - ALWAYS single Bonus.

woz shows (post-8, JPG) one of the plug / socket on the 3-ball / 5-ball Adj.-Plug. The PLUG has soldered-on wire-color-white-brown. The 5-ball-socket has wire-color-white and the 3-ball-socket has wire-color-green (maybe brown). Look here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-aztec-too-many-extra-balls#post-3600410 ONLY look at the JPG: My "D" and my "E" are handy, practical Plugs - You can buy in K-Mart and such stores - Automotive Departement, Car-Electrics - to cramp the housing so to mount the wire in the plug by using a plier.
CUT wire-color-white-brown about 2 to 3 inches away of the original plug - use a cigarette lighter - burn away some insulation and mount "into the wire-color-white-brown" such a K-Mart-plug --- but DO NOT plug-in. With this alteration You will NEVER get Double-Bonus.
(((And when You feel like "want to search for problem on Double-Bonus feature": You plug-in that K-Mart plug and You can start troubleshooting))).
As I am "close to" but not completely desperated: Post to come on "Troubleshooting", greetings Rolf

Hi Eric
(please read first through the whole post)
the Double-Bonus problem has to do with "delicate timing". A wild theory is: The "Self-Hold-Switch on the L-1000-Point-Relay" does not work so the L-Relay let go a bit earlyer than it is supposed to. I hope the "Self-Hold-Switch on the M-10-Point-Relay" is good. You have all over the playfield on the sides some leaf switches behind rubbers. TRY: Manually make some 10 points --- sometimes a "bulls-eye, full impact hit" --- sometimes just a "grace shot (You close the leaf switch just for a VERY short period of time)" - You should ALWAYS get the 10 points onto the Score-Drum. Now, see here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2500&picno=23190 --- the inlanes are worth 1000 points - question: Do You ALWAYS get 1000 points - no matter "full impact depressing" or "grace-shot like (manually closing the switch for a VERY short period of time)" ?
IF (if, if) You do NOT get the 1000 points on "grace shot": We must look at the "Self-Hold-Switch on L-1000-Poin-Relay".

OK, the "test / theory written above" most likely is not true as You ALWAYS get the 1000 points (?) by manually pressing the Inlane-Switches - but the situation is "close to desperate" - we look all-over ...

I made two JPGs using "woz timing chart / snippets of schematics". The first is "Single Bonus" - nice, synchronous stepping / pulsing the L-1000-Point-Relay and the TA-Bonus-Unit.

In the second JPG the stepping "encircled orange" of the TA-Bonus-Unit is much slower because SCM-2D and SCM-3B are involved - they let shots of electricity fired by SCM-4A pass to the Coil on TA-Bonus-Unit --- AND WHEN SCM-2D / SCM-3B ARE NOT ACTIVE: The shots fired by SCM-4A CANNOT pass (they are "masking Switches").

Maybe, maybe in Your pin the SCM-2D is faulty NOT closing so the TA-Unit gets the two times two-thousand points a target.
Maybe, maybe in Your pin the SCM-3B is faulty NOT closing so the TA-Unit gets the two times two-thousand points a target.
Because towards the L-1000-Point-Relay: The firing works through SCM-4A pulsing.

So I would like to test with ONLY ONE target dropped: The "encircled green '0' , Zero". EVERY drop target when dropped has a switch closed - wire-color-red-white and wire of "other color".
That "encircled green '0' , Zero" switch has wire-color-red-white and wire-color-yellow. The switch next to it in the schematics has wire-color-red-white and wire-color-black-white.
Please look-up in Your pin - so You can say "10 drop targets on the top of the playfield, left to right are the switches in the schematics --- well the number, the number, the number ? --- also the 5 drops on the lower playfield are ... ?

I still have problems of understanding --- see my "dark-blue question mark" - I do not understand how a fully running pin wired as shown in the schematics can work --- If I would have to wire the Target Alpha: I would have put in "masking switches SCM-1B and SCM-4C to hinder the "shot of electricity fired by SCM-4A (my encircled dark-blue stuff).

May want to have another look at SCM-2D and SCM-3B - do they TRUELY close ? Wires soldered-on ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi Eric
sometimes I do NOT understand the schematics. I then say "I see in the schematics (lets say) 3 switches involved in the "fault / faulty area". When I clean the switches and make sure they truely close when they should (and open when they should) --- AND with Jumper-Wires I make connection GARANTEED: The pin MUST function.

See the JPG, on top is the wiring in the schematics - drawn "abstract, neat looking" but maybe the "real wiring in the pin" is made different. Anyway - I know "pin runs when the "Switch on K-Relay is part of the business" - means: "Switch on K-Relay HAS CONNECTION". So I would clean again the SCM-2D and SCM-3B - look if they close and open (have the pin toggled off and turn the motor manually and look at the switch-blades).
THEN I use Jumper-Wires and connect "good switch on K-Relay" connect to "Score-Motor-Switches". This is shown in the middle part of the JPG.

Another way to get me information: I assume "one of the two Score-Motor-Switches does not work". When I disable ONE Score-Motor-Switch by unsoldering a wire (or cut the wire): 50% chance is: I disabled the "faulty switch" means: The pin behaves "exactly as before". The other 50% chance is: I disabled the "good, working switch" means: The pin behaves "OTHER than before". With this test I learn WHICH of the Two switches is the faulty one.
This "disabling a switch for a test" is nice - BUT we must avoid "by cutting a wire - we disable both Switches".
I DO NOT say "The wiring in Your pin is "as shown in the bottom part of the JPG" - BUT You must check, follow the wires so You know: Which wire to cut.

CALL FOR HELP - I am frustrated "not understanding the 'pulsing of L-1000-Point-Relay' ", see bottom of second JPG in post-14 - Call for help: If YOU read this and have a pin and schematics
El Dorado
Gold Strike
Lucky Strike
Canada Dry
Solar City
- please show a snippet of schematics on behalf of "stepping the L-1000-Point-Relay", stepping the "Add Bonus Unit Coil" - maybe, maybe there is a fault in the drawing "schematics Target Alpha" (?), Greetings Rolf

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Hi Eric
congratulations - You found an could fix the problem.
On a Gottlieb pin - after player-1, ball-1: The pin gives a new ball BUT NOT stepping to next ball (single-player-game) / NOT stepping to next player (multi-player-game). We then are suspicious about the "First-Ball-Relay" - maybe the Relay does not actuate - maybe the Relay does actuate but immediately after: Actuates back (mechanical problem ? or electrical problem ?) - maybe the Relay does actuate "nice" BUT a switch on the Relay is bad.

The Target Alpha is a modern Gottlieb - there is mounted "DX-First-Ball-Relay, Interlock-Type-Relay". (((You may have seen in Your pin the AX- and the BX-Relays (also Interlock-Type-Relays)))

You write "SOMETIMES" - this usually means: A Wire has broken-off somewhere, wires are stiff, they stay in place --- SOMETIMES. Also: A Switch can be dirty - making contact --- SOMETIMES. Also: A Switch can be maladjusted - making contact --- SOMETIMES.

Look into Your pin, start a game --- see how the AX-Reset-Control-Relay actuates - pin resets - then AX-Relay actuates "back". Then Ball-1 is given for player-1. Look at the DX-Relay, look, look - with finger / hand You make 10 points or 100 points on the playfield - question: DOES the DX-Relay actuate ? It SHOULD actuate AND STAY in the new position. You write SOMETIMES - so do this several times see the relay actuate ? When it DOES actuate: REMEMBER the position the DX-Relay is in. Play many games - as the fault happens - NOW look at the DX-Relay - question: Is it in "other" position ?

The JPG shows: H, R, N and M Relays are involved to MAKE the DX-Relay actuate, greetings Rolf

Hi - really strange behaviour on "posting JPG's", Rolf

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