New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 244011)

Target Alpha alternating relay question


By paulace

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by paulace
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

alternating circuit (resized).JPG

#1 1 year ago

Hi folks,
Does anyone have time to walk me through an explanation of how this circuit works on a Target Alpha? There are 4 lanes that are involved - 2 rollover lanes at the top of the pf and two lanes at the bottom that alternate being lit and scoring 5,000 when lit, or scoring 500 when not lit. The scoring works correctly - that is, when the ball goes through a lit lane, it scores 5,000 pts and when it goes through a non-lit lane, it scores 500 pts. The problem is that I believe the lit lanes should alternate (when a 10 pt switch is activated, I think), and there is no alternating - the same lanes stay lit all the time. But it hasn't worked since I've been working on the machine, so maybe I'm misunderstanding what's supposed to cause the lanes to alternate...doesn't really say on the rules card.

So I'm looking at the schematic and it looks like the FS relay (00-90 stepper unit) and A relay (alternating relay) should work together to make this happen. It looks like a pretty simple circuit, but I'm confused by a few things:

1. What is the "5 pos. sequence completed switch" accomplishing? Looks like no matter which state it's in, there is a connection for the A relay depending on the make-break on FS on the right side of the circuit. So what's the point of that sequence completed switch?

2. What does the FS (1 : 1) marking mean in the "00-90" Unit Relay circuit?

3. Is the "On Add "Player" Unit" switch on the right side of the circuit physically on the coin unit in front of the chimes?

It looks like the "00-90" unit relay should get a pulse every time the M (or is that an "N"?) relay fires, which should change the state of the FS make-break, and the FS (1 : 1) switch? I assume it advances that little FS stepper each time it fires. Maybe I'm not understanding how the alternating is supposed to happen during gameplay...

If I press the A relay to the energized position with my finger, it does alternate the lights and scoring for the lanes correctly.... it just doesn't seem to get a signal to energize from the playfield switches. The coil is good - I can jumper 24V to the right side of the relay and it energizes. It looks like there are only 2 switches involved in getting power to the A relay, so I should be able to track down the problem there, but I'd like to better understand the whole circuit. I hope I explained this clearly.

Thanks in advance for the help!
alternating circuit (resized).JPG

#2 1 year ago

There is a switch on the FS relay stacked on top of the FS match relay body. It is driven by a cam on the spindle of the FS relay.

You probably end up on the same match number also. You’ll probably need to service this relay. There are a few guides here on Pinside on the subject. Look up rebuild AS relay.

#3 1 year ago

Thanks Mike. So that (1 : 1) indicates that the switch just alternates between on and off each time the relay is fired? Why is the "on add player unit" switch involved...does that have to do with the match feature?

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from paulace:

Why is the "on add player unit" switch involved...does that have to do with the match feature?

Yes. I had to get into the FS to fix the alternating bit on my TA. It's tight, but cleaning the sw. fixed it. I cleaned the rest of it while I was at it.

#5 1 year ago

I had to clean and adjust the match relay assembly, switches etc to get my alternating lights working as well.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from paulace:

Thanks Mike. So that (1 : 1) indicates that the switch just alternates between on and off each time the relay is fired? Why is the "on add player unit" switch involved...does that have to do with the match feature?

Not sure if the 1 to 1 notation is referring to the on/off nature. But it is what is driving the alternating relay.

I'm going to guess that the "on add player unit" acknowledges the match for players 2, 3, and 4. But I'm not sure.

#7 1 year ago

Well, thanks for all the input. I took the FS completely apart and cleaned everything, gapped those switches on top, cleaned and lubed the circuit board and moving arms...and it works! yeah! Apparently, it's the 100 pt relay that makes the FS rotate - so it's the pop bumpers that make the lanes alternate. Should have known - Gottlieb loves using those pop bumpers to alternate stuff.

Anyway, thank again for all the information....I love this forum! I'll mark this thread as solved - thanks for the help, guys!

I haven't seen Howard R in a while though...anybody know if he's OK? He usually chimes in on these things immediately.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from paulace:

I haven't seen Howard R in a while though...anybody know if he's OK? He usually chimes in on these things immediately.

Thanks for asking. I've been busy with other things lately not least email is inconsistent. I've been meaning to reply to the email you sent me a week ago but finally got to it today.

#9 1 year ago

No problems, Howard....just wanted to make sure that you're OK. I missed your pinball smarts trying to get this Target Alpha up and running, but thankfully there are always people willing to help.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
1,400
Sale Pending!
Victorville, CA
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
$ 20.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Haus
$ 245.95
Boards
Allteksystems
$ 40.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 75.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RGP Models
From: $ 189.00
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 239.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 9.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
$ 999.00
Pinball Machine
Mircoplayfields
$ 219.99
Lighting - Interactive
Medisinyl Mods
$ 15.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
$ 9.99
Cabinet - Other
Bent Mods
$ 14.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
$ 65.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
From: $ 3.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 149.00
$ 1,199.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
$ 400.00
Boards
Great American Pinball
$ 43.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 29.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Decals
ModFather Pinball Mods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside