(Topic ID: 186644)

Mr. Tantrum's Guide to PinSound

By Mr_Tantrum

7 years ago


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    #551 3 years ago
    Quoted from Quadrider:

    Excellent Guide.... Thanks mr_tantrum for all the advice. I acquired a T2 with a Pinsound board and was blown away at how awesome it sounds. A few weeks back, I picked up one of my Dream Games J*B only to have the sound board take a shit. I Ordered a Pinsound Board for it, installed, and updated Firmware, only to realize there are no enhanced packages currently available for it yet... Only the Original Mix. Unfortunately J*B isn't a highly produced game and God only knows how long it'll be before the community makes a custom or enhanced original mix for it.
    I absolutely love the original J*B soundtrack and would like to try to Re-orchestrate & enhance it myself. Good news is that all the files on the original mix are currently in .wav format. I Downloaded PSStudio and Audicity, and will be working on the mix over the next few weeks/months. Reading through all 11 pages can be quite overwhelming for someone relatively new to the whole customization of sound packages.... With that said, aside from "Normalization" and converting the Original Mono sounds to Stereo, what are the easiest and quickest Audicity Adjustments that you recommend to instantly get the best Sounds for my J*B sound files?

    Main thing to know is garbage in, garbage out. Your original sound files need to be high quality. Outside of that, you've got it. A few points:
    - Make yourself a runsheet to keep track of all the sounds along with what you've replaced and with what. If you'll PM me with your email address I can send you a couple of example Excel files I used
    - If just doing the orchestration, there is no need for PS Studio. It just introduces another element that is not really needed. Do all of your sound editing in Audacity, and just use your computers file system to copy/paste the wav files into the correct folders.
    - For sound effects and voice callouts, you will want your replacements to be of similar length (usually no need to make them exactly the same). If you know the game well, you'll know what needs to be short due to consecutive callouts, etc.
    - For Audacity be sure to download the stereo plugin I outline as you will want to convert the OEM sounds you keep and even some new sound effects/callouts to stereo
    - Realize you will need to trim and adjust start points for your music. You make like a song that has a 20 second lead in, only to realize on the pin you rarely or never make it 20 seconds into the mode to where you hear the main part of the music. Similarly, if you have a song that needs to loop be sure to trip the end of the song so that when it repeats back to the start it is a smooth transition.

    Other than that, it's just going to take some practice using Audacity and getting into the groove. I suggest getting your first stab at it mostly done, then take it to the pin to test. Also, take the glass off and throw the ball around to achieve the various modes, test sound effects rarely heard, etc. Plan on going back and forth to your pin and PC making fine tweaks until you are ultimately satisfied with your orchestration.

    #552 3 years ago

    Hey all! Thanks Mr_Tantrum and others for all the wisdom here. A lot to take in

    Does anyone have any tips - outside normalization, of course - to help things sound more cohesive? Even with batch normalization (and loudness) adjustments, I still have some files that are louder than others. Any tips outside of adjusting the offending clips manually?

    Also, given that the callouts and music are from various sources, I suspect some EQ work would help, but I only have a cursory knowledge of such things. Anyone come across anything that helps a noob with that?

    Thanks in advance!

    #553 3 years ago
    Quoted from cjchand:

    Hey all! Thanks mr_tantrum and others for all the wisdom here. A lot to take in
    Does anyone have any tips - outside normalization, of course - to help things sound more cohesive? Even with batch normalization (and loudness) adjustments, I still have some files that are louder than others. Any tips outside of adjusting the offending clips manually?
    Also, given that the callouts and music are from various sources, I suspect some EQ work would help, but I only have a cursory knowledge of such things. Anyone come across anything that helps a noob with that?
    Thanks in advance!

    I use the pinsound studio to do fine adjustments to single files in a pinch.

    I really wish that pinsound studio had VU meters...

    #554 3 years ago
    Quoted from cjchand:

    Hey all! Thanks mr_tantrum and others for all the wisdom here. A lot to take in
    Does anyone have any tips - outside normalization, of course - to help things sound more cohesive? Even with batch normalization (and loudness) adjustments, I still have some files that are louder than others. Any tips outside of adjusting the offending clips manually?
    Also, given that the callouts and music are from various sources, I suspect some EQ work would help, but I only have a cursory knowledge of such things. Anyone come across anything that helps a noob with that?
    Thanks in advance!

    When I say "normalize" I do not mean using the built in normalize tool in Audacity, as this does not deliver the best results. What I mean is that your recordings should all be of similar amplitude (I've already posted where/how I set mine). Then you should manually adjust each file to have a similar histogram using the audacity Amplify effect.

    What I find works best for all the orchestrations I've done is for the light blue center part of the histogram to range from around -3.5 to +3.5 (sometimes you may have to trim the peaks when doing this, but it is rarely noticeable, if at all, in my experience given the audio fidelity of a pinball machine.
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    Also, I suggest getting all of your files done first as I outline above, then circle back and play with other adjustments if needed. The biggest task will be converting everything to stereo if your callouts and effects are in mono. I think I've outlined that somewhere in this thread, but if not let me know.

    #555 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    When I say "normalize" I do not mean using the built in normalize tool in Audacity, as this does not deliver the best results.

    Ah, gotcha! Sounds like file-by-file adjustments are unavoidable then. Was hoping for an “easy button”

    Thanks again for the info!

    3 weeks later
    #556 3 years ago

    Anyone know the changes for the new firmware released 9/17/20 ?

    #557 3 years ago

    Even though v.20.06.2 looks like it was posted on 9/17/20, the changelog shows that same version on 6/18/20.

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
    #558 3 years ago

    That change log has been up for a while now, I'm guessing they didn't post one as of yet. I'll hold off until I see what changes were made

    #559 3 years ago

    If I had to guess they probably added some shakerizations (purely speculative on my part).

    #560 3 years ago

    I'm hoping for the new version of pinstudio to follow shortly : )

    #561 3 years ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    I'm hoping for the new version of pinstudio to follow shortly : )

    He's been working on that for months. I know that things turned a little hectic for France during the pandemic, so not sure how much time he's been able to devote to it. The implementation of the shaker programming is superb, but we do really need the PSREC feature back.

    #562 3 years ago

    How do I make the volume lower on a data East, with the volume turned all the way down it’s still quite loud

    #563 3 years ago
    Quoted from dimthedaylights:

    How do I make the volume lower on a data East, with the volume turned all the way down it’s still quite loud

    Are you using the DE volume control or the PS headphones station? Also what are the settings on the volume knobs on the PS board?

    #564 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    Are you using the DE volume control or the PS headphones station? Also what are the settings on the volume knobs on the PS board?

    no headphone station and I must be blind I don’t see a volume adjustment on the board itself? Just the adjustment for the headphone volume

    #565 3 years ago
    Quoted from dimthedaylights:

    no headphone station and I must be blind I don’t see a volume adjustment on the board itself? Just the adjustment for the headphone volume

    I turned the sub boost down that helped a little

    #566 3 years ago
    Quoted from dimthedaylights:

    no headphone station and I must be blind I don’t see a volume adjustment on the board itself? Just the adjustment for the headphone volume

    Sorry, I forgot the PinSound + boards are different than the older PinSound 1 boards (what I have). You should be able to turn the volume all the way down using the pin's volume control. I can't remember about DE pins, but on Williams there is a minimum volume lock which means even if you turn the volume all the way down it is still at level 4 or 5. Again, not sure if this setting exists in DE pins.

    The headphones statin replaces the DE volume control knob inside the cabinet and allows you to both control volume and switch orchestrations from outside the cabinet - a must have IMO.

    #567 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    He's been working on that for months. I know that things turned a little hectic for France during the pandemic, so not sure how much time he's been able to devote to it. The implementation of the shaker programming is superb, but we do really need the PSREC feature back.

    Sorry in advance for the long post...

    I've been away from active Pinsound development news for longer than I care to admit after working on a SWDE mix more than 5 years ago and was quite surprised that this very necessary tool was lost. It is very handy to help figure out how the various MPU calls interact with each other in sequence. Hopefully they can get it back for everyone.

    Being a true pinhead, I decided to come up with my own method of working around this problem since I've been spending time working on a reworked Shadow mix and trying to make sense of all of various SFX, single, jingle, music, voice sounds is a very daunting task. Since I can't go and queue up a recording to see what action triggers what cue, I came up with a solution that other than the trouble of some back and forth with the USB stick - I think works even better than PSREC as long as you have an actual machine.

    I took a bunch of audio recordings of spoken "numbers" and put the individual .wav files for them into the various folders I want to identify and labeled each of the files "pincount1, pincount2, pincount3, etc.". Once they are in the folder, along with a gain.txt set to 20 to boost the callout to the max, I then take the drive over to the machine, take a notepad (or virtual notepad), pop the glass off and start a simulated game and hit the switches and optos and make note of what audio cues are triggered by what actions when I hear the spoken number get triggered. After several iterations of this, you can map out exactly gets triggered and how it occurs. I strongly suggest you then modify the folders name, not number, to change it to something more understandable for future reference (e.g. changing "whoosh" to "outer loop opto").

    I have a "master" copy of the reorchestration on my hard drive and then a "copy" of that on my flash drive. When I'm working on a folder, I copy the work in progress over to the flash drive and then place the "pincount" files into the various folders I'm trying to identify. I then play the game, take my notes, then come back to the computer and then search for "pincount" on the flash drive, that gives me a list of all the files and their "number". I then open the folder location and it tells me where I need to go on the master copy to rename the folder and drop in the new audio cue I create.

    As to what you do to replace all of the files. Music is usually pretty self explanatory. Single and Jingle can confuse people; but, ultimately - it's what you decide to place in those folders and how you want your new audio cue to work in the game that is really important. For example, if the original game used used a special piece of music that was a jingle for a jackpot award and you decide you don't want the main track to stop and play that before continuing - you can move the folder into SFX if you want the new cue to play as a flourish over the top of the existing audio. For example, my work-in-progress Shadow mix uses some specific orchestrated flourishes as some of these types of awards. Playing them on top of the currently running track works fine since tonally - it comes from the same orchestra.

    Replacing the SFX and voice are really the most time consuming and potentially, the thing that really makes your reworked mix stand out.

    With both of these folders, you can really go to town and have multiple .wav files in each folder if you want to add a lot of variety to the game. For both of these folders, you also need to keep in mind that just because the original game has something specific that gets called up - you don't have to follow suit in replicating an exact replacement for the same thing. Remember that these games used many effects to often emulate layered multi-track soundscapes. So if a game fires off 2 different cues in quick succession, you can choose to have just one audio file that accomplishes your intended effect. For example, a gunshot may have the firing of the gun and an impact of that in the original game. You can choose to have your file do that all in one. When I did my SWDE, I found a ton of this type multi-cue stacking that if I tried to split apart into separate cues - it resulted in a "mess" of noise as all these new sound samples would try to fire off in ways you simply have a hard time controlling. To combat this, you can either choose to not have a file in the offending folders, or if like me you often wonder if the board may trip over a missing cue, simply put a file that has the gain down to nothing put in its place.

    The voice folder is pretty fun to do as you can often think of creative clips that match the "tone" of what the action is. For SWDE, it was easy to find callouts over the course of three movies that most people know backwards and forwards. For something like the Shadow, it's a bit harder. One source film and it's one that I doubt many know enough of to know what dialog is there and then know where in the source audio dump to go find it. That's where finding a script online comes in handy. Every game is going to have challenges with game specific callouts - like extra ball and so forth. You can then either choose to either rerecord it or try to clean up the files as best you can via Audacity. I usually go with the latter.

    The SFX folder is the most daunting to tackle. Tons and tons of short little noises that often don't make sense when you listen to them directly. That's where the "pincount" system above comes in handy to identify how the stock cue folders interact. What you decide to do with the files is really up to you. For things like Star Wars or Star Trek, it's easy to find sound effects online that come from source places like games and movies. For something like the Shadow, it's a bit harder. You can use websites like https://freesound.org/ to find audio samples that you can repurpose. While working on Shadow, I used things like "thunder, lightening, crash, whoosh, etc."; but, going beyond that the harder part is dreaming up what to use to replace the existing files with. Since the Shadow features various Asian cultures, I used things like Tibetan bells, gongs, singing bowls, and throat singing for sound effects. This type of creativity is really the hardest part; but, ultimately the one that is most satisfying.

    I hope to share my Shadow version soon. I've got about 45 more voice folders to go through and then some final balancing (gain adjustments) to get everything working and then I'll let everyone have a listen.

    Let me know if any of this makes sense or if you have any questions.

    #568 3 years ago

    Good writeup. The number one issue for me is identifying what triggers all of the Voice & SFX sounds (there are usually so many of them). It also doesn't help that usually the coders put a variety of SFX, Voices, and even Music that doesn't ever seemed to be called during a game. I usually try to rename folders to something more accurate when I track them down, so that is a good suggestion for all to follow (helps those who come after you).

    #569 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    It also doesn't help that usually the coders put a variety of SFX, Voices, and even Music that doesn't ever seemed to be called during a game.

    Yes, the duplicate calls to the folders are a pain to figure out. Some of them have very, very specific triggers that don't happen under all circumstances. For example, I found some duplicate Shadow SFX that would only play occasionally after cancelling out of a buy-in ball. You can either come up with a very all encompassing test regime of firing all switches under all circumstances or just be very diligent about identifying the similar cues and replacing them with the same types of cues. That way it doesn't really matter as much if they get called up and played. When in doubt, just put a similar sounding cue and dump the gain down in the folder.

    The irony of Pinsound remix development is that you often feel like you are using brute force and clubs to try and chisel something that will be very delicate and beautiful out of marble once you are done.

    #570 3 years ago
    Quoted from jedimastermatt:

    I took a bunch of audio recordings of spoken "numbers" and put the individual .wav files for them into the various folders I want to identify and labeled each of the files "pincount1, pincount2, pincount3, etc.". Once they are in the folder, along with a gain.txt

    I'm glad someone else was as determined/crazy as I was to try this. Admittedly I didn't do the entire folder structure with this as I only needed to verify a handful - however far you went, big props to you for the commitment.

    Do gain.txt files still work? (I've never used them, always simply adjusting individual file levels in Audition.) I was under the impression that those gain.txt settings (along with ducking settings and PSREC flags to come) were now incorporated into the config.pinsound file.

    This "hack" reminds me how how in the early stages of working on my mix I would actually record video of the gameplay as I was recording each PSREC. The 'legacy' GNR folder structure has so many sounds placed in the wrong jingle/single/sfx subfolder that having video helped immensely in sorting out what was happening vs. what should be happening.

    #571 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    1) Ducking | This was previously an undocumented feature, and I don't know if it made its way into the new convention or not.
    2) PSREC files | I've been told for the last several months it was in the works and "close". I'm assuming there have been some complications/challenges since it is still not present. Unfortunately, I think "when it's done" is the answer.
    3) Custom rules | First time I've heard of these. Curious.
    4) Shaker | All shaker events are time based and cannot repeat fire based on an audio length. If you want an extended shake the use one of the 3 custom shakes to create one of the duration/intensity you are wanting.

    On Sept. 1 PinSound let me know that the return of ducking and PSREC functionality are indeed coming. No indication on timing. I was surprised ducking was lost at all. Maybe most machines don't use voices/callouts/sfx while background music stays active, but I can't imagine this GNR mix without it.

    As for custom rules, I was told they not useful for sound creators, just used for specific cases to deal with some unique sound issues. I mean... not useful for sound creators? Then who? I decided not to bite the hand that feeds and at least wait until we get ducking and PSREC back before pressing that.

    I had already renumbered the folders in my mix manually to match the numbering scheme used in the new format, but I sent a version of my old-format mix to PinSound to have them "convert" it, mostly to verify my work. Unfortunately, they not only changed the numbers of the folders but also changed the individual file names inside the folders, making it useless to me. I emailed back asking them if they could do the "conversion" (search/replace macro?) without changing the file names, but haven't heard back.

    On the plus side, while waiting for proper tools I've been able to spend time fleshing out my mix's schema with more useless info.

    schema.jpgschema.jpg

    #572 3 years ago

    Any thoughts on the new Pinsound card released today? Not sure what the difference is with the Pinsound Plus? Thanks.

    https://www.pinsound.org/pinball-sound-boards-neo-plus/

    #573 3 years ago
    Quoted from jedimastermatt:

    Sorry in advance for the long post...
    I've been away from active Pinsound development news for longer than I care to admit after working on a SWDE mix more than 5 years ago and was quite surprised that this very necessary tool was lost. It is very handy to help figure out how the various MPU calls interact with each other in sequence. Hopefully they can get it back for everyone.
    Being a true pinhead, I decided to come up with my own method of working around this problem since I've been spending time working on a reworked Shadow mix and trying to make sense of all of various SFX, single, jingle, music, voice sounds is a very daunting task. Since I can't go and queue up a recording to see what action triggers what cue, I came up with a solution that other than the trouble of some back and forth with the USB stick - I think works even better than PSREC as long as you have an actual machine.
    I took a bunch of audio recordings of spoken "numbers" and put the individual .wav files for them into the various folders I want to identify and labeled each of the files "pincount1, pincount2, pincount3, etc.". Once they are in the folder, along with a gain.txt set to 20 to boost the callout to the max, I then take the drive over to the machine, take a notepad (or virtual notepad), pop the glass off and start a simulated game and hit the switches and optos and make note of what audio cues are triggered by what actions when I hear the spoken number get triggered. After several iterations of this, you can map out exactly gets triggered and how it occurs. I strongly suggest you then modify the folders name, not number, to change it to something more understandable for future reference (e.g. changing "whoosh" to "outer loop opto").
    I have a "master" copy of the reorchestration on my hard drive and then a "copy" of that on my flash drive. When I'm working on a folder, I copy the work in progress over to the flash drive and then place the "pincount" files into the various folders I'm trying to identify. I then play the game, take my notes, then come back to the computer and then search for "pincount" on the flash drive, that gives me a list of all the files and their "number". I then open the folder location and it tells me where I need to go on the master copy to rename the folder and drop in the new audio cue I create.
    As to what you do to replace all of the files. Music is usually pretty self explanatory. Single and Jingle can confuse people; but, ultimately - it's what you decide to place in those folders and how you want your new audio cue to work in the game that is really important. For example, if the original game used used a special piece of music that was a jingle for a jackpot award and you decide you don't want the main track to stop and play that before continuing - you can move the folder into SFX if you want the new cue to play as a flourish over the top of the existing audio. For example, my work-in-progress Shadow mix uses some specific orchestrated flourishes as some of these types of awards. Playing them on top of the currently running track works fine since tonally - it comes from the same orchestra.
    Replacing the SFX and voice are really the most time consuming and potentially, the thing that really makes your reworked mix stand out.
    With both of these folders, you can really go to town and have multiple .wav files in each folder if you want to add a lot of variety to the game. For both of these folders, you also need to keep in mind that just because the original game has something specific that gets called up - you don't have to follow suit in replicating an exact replacement for the same thing. Remember that these games used many effects to often emulate layered multi-track soundscapes. So if a game fires off 2 different cues in quick succession, you can choose to have just one audio file that accomplishes your intended effect. For example, a gunshot may have the firing of the gun and an impact of that in the original game. You can choose to have your file do that all in one. When I did my SWDE, I found a ton of this type multi-cue stacking that if I tried to split apart into separate cues - it resulted in a "mess" of noise as all these new sound samples would try to fire off in ways you simply have a hard time controlling. To combat this, you can either choose to not have a file in the offending folders, or if like me you often wonder if the board may trip over a missing cue, simply put a file that has the gain down to nothing put in its place.
    The voice folder is pretty fun to do as you can often think of creative clips that match the "tone" of what the action is. For SWDE, it was easy to find callouts over the course of three movies that most people know backwards and forwards. For something like the Shadow, it's a bit harder. One source film and it's one that I doubt many know enough of to know what dialog is there and then know where in the source audio dump to go find it. That's where finding a script online comes in handy. Every game is going to have challenges with game specific callouts - like extra ball and so forth. You can then either choose to either rerecord it or try to clean up the files as best you can via Audacity. I usually go with the latter.
    The SFX folder is the most daunting to tackle. Tons and tons of short little noises that often don't make sense when you listen to them directly. That's where the "pincount" system above comes in handy to identify how the stock cue folders interact. What you decide to do with the files is really up to you. For things like Star Wars or Star Trek, it's easy to find sound effects online that come from source places like games and movies. For something like the Shadow, it's a bit harder. You can use websites like https://freesound.org/ to find audio samples that you can repurpose. While working on Shadow, I used things like "thunder, lightening, crash, whoosh, etc."; but, going beyond that the harder part is dreaming up what to use to replace the existing files with. Since the Shadow features various Asian cultures, I used things like Tibetan bells, gongs, singing bowls, and throat singing for sound effects. This type of creativity is really the hardest part; but, ultimately the one that is most satisfying.
    I hope to share my Shadow version soon. I've got about 45 more voice folders to go through and then some final balancing (gain adjustments) to get everything working and then I'll let everyone have a listen.
    Let me know if any of this makes sense or if you have any questions.

    Have you come across music tracks that are actually not triggered by the game play? Thanks.

    #574 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballjah:

    Any thoughts on the new Pinsound card released today? Not sure what the difference is with the Pinsound Plus? Thanks.

    I think it looks good for someone who wants to save a few bucks and don't need all the features of pinsound plus board, but then again with the special going on if you get the pinsound plus you can grab the headphone station for free for the next three days I believe. So I took advantage and order another Pinsound plus board with my free headphone station which is an absolute must on these machine just for the benefit of volume adjustment and switching sound packages on the fly without having to open the coin door and play with buttons.

    #575 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballjah:

    Have you come across music tracks that are actually not triggered by the game play? Thanks.

    I don't recall any actual folders in Music that don't trigger; but, then again - I've really only worked in depth on SWDE and the Shadow and I'm going to get started on going through STTNG and replace everything that hasn't been already sorted through.

    #576 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballjah:

    Any thoughts on the new Pinsound card released today? Not sure what the difference is with the Pinsound Plus? Thanks.
    https://www.pinsound.org/pinball-sound-boards-neo-plus/

    Yeah, I checked it out too. It looks like a little less expensive version that has all the great features that most people would want. Just doesn't have a line out, equalizer, and a few other things. I bet for 75%+ of the users this would be great solution.

    #577 3 years ago

    New firmware dropped today too, wish they would update the change log tho....

    #578 3 years ago
    Quoted from jedimastermatt:

    I don't recall any actual folders in Music that don't trigger; but, then again - I've really only worked in depth on SWDE and the Shadow and I'm going to get started on going through STTNG and replace everything that hasn't been already sorted through.

    Thanks, I think on Getaway nearly half of the music tracks don't trigger during game play. Something very high.

    #579 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballjah:

    Thanks, I think on Getaway nearly half of the music tracks don't trigger during game play. Something very high.
    Maybe it was Dr. Who?

    #580 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballjah:

    Thanks, I think on Getaway nearly half of the music tracks don't trigger during game play. Something very high.

    Well, that’s a little bit of an exaggeration, maybe 4 or so.

    2 weeks later
    #581 3 years ago

    Got pinsound on my MB.

    Is it normal to have some white noise sound after game is turned on?

    When game is started, sound is pretty good.

    Louder on left back speaker - from players perspective.

    Thanks

    #582 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Got pinsound on my MB.
    Is it normal to have some white noise sound after game is turned on?
    When game is started, sound is pretty good.
    Louder on left back speaker - from players perspective.
    Thanks

    When game is powered on, you should here some beeping as the PinSound board is loading the orchestrations, then a confirmation chime (or custom sound if you've added it), then you should be good to go.

    #583 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    When game is powered on, you should here some beeping as the PinSound board is loading the orchestrations, then a confirmation chime (or custom sound if you've added it), then you should be good to go.

    Thanks - that all happens.

    Just wondered how much background hiss is acceptable coming from speaker?

    #584 3 years ago

    I have mine on a Data east and putting pinsound in actually reduced my hum, check your settings like sub booster etc and see if that makes a difference

    #585 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Thanks - that all happens.
    Just wondered how much background hiss is acceptable coming from speaker?

    What game is it, did you replace the stock speakers, is it wired for stereo like the manual suggests or did you leave it mono?

    #586 3 years ago
    Quoted from dimthedaylights:

    I have mine on a Data east and putting pinsound in actually reduced my hum, check your settings like sub booster etc and see if that makes a difference

    Didn't even know that pinsound board has adjustable sound settings?

    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    What game is it, did you replace the stock speakers, is it wired for stereo like the manual suggests or did you leave it mono?

    Stock speakers. WPC-95 MB. Haven't made any adjustments?

    Thanks

    #587 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Didn't even know that pinsound board has adjustable sound settings?

    Ok which board do you get, the Plus or the Neo?

    #588 3 years ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    Ok which board do you get, the Plus or the Neo?

    Plus

    #589 3 years ago

    The six lighted knobs are the adjustments. Hard to miss.

    #590 3 years ago

    Also suggest that you wire the speakers for stereo if you already haven’t done so. They sell the speaker wire kit for Williams Bally.

    #591 3 years ago

    Yes, plus. Will look into speaker wire kit.

    Adjustment knobs didn't make a difference.

    Thanks

    #592 3 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Yes, plus. Will look into speaker wire kit.
    Adjustment knobs didn't make a difference.
    Thanks

    I just put a plus in my CFTBL. I did leave the stock speakers, installed the headset station to raise and lower volume plus the ability to switch sound packages on the fly, and I also re-wired the stock speakers following their stereo instructions on doing so along with their wire kit. I do suggest their kit for the plugs are already wired to plug right into their boards, speaker connections are no big deal to solder.

    I can tell you the adjustment knobs do make a big difference when adjusting even the stock cab sub was rattling the glass. Now the stock 4ohm speakers aren't the best nor is the 6" cab sub which I'll replace to an 8" shortly. However I have to figure out what to do for the back box speakers. I can put on 5.25" full range in the left but the right side is my issue as I want to add the speaker panel lighting to CFTBL and the circuit boards might be in the way of any speaker larger then 3.5"

    #593 3 years ago

    I am having problems getting the USB to be read in Pinsound Neo. I am finding the lack of a user manual on PinSound's site to be frustrating.

    I filed a request for info with PinSound. I got this nice response. I cannot expect help in my time since they appear to be operating 100% in France.
    _______________________________________
    I'm sorry you're having this issue I will help you.

    First, could you make extra sure your flash drive is in FAT32 format?

    If the sound board is able to apply the firmware, the
    "pinsound-update-20062.psrom2" file will be automatically deleted (if
    the update has been possible and applied).

    Once done, to load a sound pack, simply copy the zip file at the root of
    the flash drive, everything will be handled automatically during the
    next boot (and you'll hear the status progress).
    _______________________________________

    I find that interesting. I was reading through the help postings on PinSound's website. One responder said that the music files had to be in a folder 'audio'.

    My response to his email was:

    ________________________________________

    I have reformatted the USB a second time. I got the following report:

    Formatting disk11s2 as MS-DOS (FAT) with name UNTITLED
    512 bytes per physical sector
    /dev/rdisk11s2: 59620896 sectors in 1863153 FAT32 clusters (16384 bytes/cluster)
    bps=512 spc=32 res=32 nft=2 mid=0xf8 spt=32 hds=255 hid=411648 drv=0x80 bsec=59650048 bspf=14556 rdcl=2 infs=1 bkbs=6

    From what I read, MS-DOS is another name for FAT32.

    I loaded "pinsound-update-20062.psrom2” into the root directory. The soundboard booted, and I got the ’no sound files in the USB flash drive’ response. The file stayed in the USB drive and was not deleted.
    __________________________________________

    Note that I am using a Mac. I am using a SanDisk USB 3.0 32GB.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    #594 3 years ago
    Quoted from lhammer610:

    I am having problems getting the USB to be read in Pinsound Neo. I am finding the lack of a user manual on PinSound's site to be frustrating.
    I filed a request for info with PinSound. I got this nice response. I cannot expect help in my time since they appear to be operating 100% in France.
    _______________________________________
    I'm sorry you're having this issue I will help you.
    First, could you make extra sure your flash drive is in FAT32 format?
    If the sound board is able to apply the firmware, the
    "pinsound-update-20062.psrom2" file will be automatically deleted (if
    the update has been possible and applied).
    Once done, to load a sound pack, simply copy the zip file at the root of
    the flash drive, everything will be handled automatically during the
    next boot (and you'll hear the status progress).
    _______________________________________
    I find that interesting. I was reading through the help postings on PinSound's website. One responder said that the music files had to be in a folder 'audio'.
    My response to his email was:
    ________________________________________
    I have reformatted the USB a second time. I got the following report:
    Formatting disk11s2 as MS-DOS (FAT) with name UNTITLED
    512 bytes per physical sector
    /dev/rdisk11s2: 59620896 sectors in 1863153 FAT32 clusters (16384 bytes/cluster)
    bps=512 spc=32 res=32 nft=2 mid=0xf8 spt=32 hds=255 hid=411648 drv=0x80 bsec=59650048 bspf=14556 rdcl=2 infs=1 bkbs=6
    From what I read, MS-DOS is another name for FAT32.
    I loaded "pinsound-update-20062.psrom2” into the root directory. The soundboard booted, and I got the ’no sound files in the USB flash drive’ response. The file stayed in the USB drive and was not deleted.
    __________________________________________
    Note that I am using a Mac. I am using a SanDisk USB 3.0 32GB.
    Any help would be appreciated.

    FAT is not FAT32. It must be FAT32

    FAT is 16 bit

    FAT32 is 32 bit.

    This might be your problem.

    #595 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    FAT is not FAT32. It must be FAT32
    FAT is 16 bit
    FAT32 is 32 bit.
    This might be your problem.

    Maybe. But when I search for 'how to format USB drive to FAT32 on MacOS' I get:

    "Rename the USB flash drive, choose the format as MS-DOS (FAT) for Format, Master Boot Record for Scheme. Then click Erase."

    https://www.easeus.com/mac-file-recovery/format-usb-flash-drive-to-fat32-on-mac.html

    The last link I went to did not mention anything about 'Master Boot Record'. So I need to try that.

    This time, I got as a response:

    Formatting disk11s1 as MS-DOS (FAT) with name UNTITLED
    512 bytes per physical sector
    /dev/rdisk11s1: 60030304 sectors in 1875947 FAT32 clusters (16384 bytes/cluster)
    bps=512 spc=32 res=32 nft=2 mid=0xf8 spt=32 hds=255 hid=2048 drv=0x80 bsec=60059648 bspf=14656 rdcl=2 infs=1 bkbs=6

    It does say 'FAT32 clusters'.

    But it said that last time, too.

    #596 3 years ago

    HA! That did it. It updated the firmware.

    Note that both times when I checked the format, it said 'FAT32 clusters'. But there are some differences:

    1) /dev/rdisk11s2: 59620896 sectors in 1863153 FAT32 clusters (16384 bytes/cluster)

    2) /dev/rdisk11s1: 60030304 sectors in 1875947 FAT32 clusters (16384 bytes/cluster)

    Note the different number of sectors. Apparently it is crucial to select 'Scheme: Master Boot Record' when formatting using the MacOS.

    Screen Shot 2020-10-21 at 5.01.53 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2020-10-21 at 5.01.53 PM (resized).png
    #597 3 years ago

    There is a lot to digest about loading the sound files. I have some confusion.

    I understand that I need to convert the files to WAV. Not sure what sample rate nor bits per sample - but that is not important here.

    PinSound says I can just load the zip file downloaded to the USB and the card will take care of the rest.

    Here is their note:

    "Once done, to load a sound pack, simply copy the zip file at the root of
    the flash drive, everything will be handled automatically during the
    next boot (and you'll hear the status progress)."

    I tried unzipping the file and all the sounds are in the .ogg format, not WAV. So that should not work. But it did. When I loaded the zip file in the USB, it loaded.

    Previously, I had unzipped it, converted the ogg to WAV. I put it in the file structure outlined by PinSound.

    https://www.pinsound.org/help/sound-package-information/

    The sound card took a long time (20 to 30 minutes) and then said no sound files were found (photo indicates the file structure).

    So apparently it is OK to leave the sound files zipped in a ogg format as in this zip file as they are in this download?

    http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/294-all-who-songs_pinballjah/

    Screen Shot 2020-10-23 at 3.16.52 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2020-10-23 at 3.16.52 PM (resized).png
    #598 3 years ago

    Please see the opening post of this thread as it answers several of your questions.

    #599 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    Please see the opening post of this thread as it answers several of your questions.

    Thanks Mr. Tantrum. You have done a nice job of trying to document what PinSound has not.

    I have read it several times. I have gotten to the point where I skim it, so I guess I am missing something.

    You said, "You will use this tool to initially convert the entire contents of the orchestration structure that you download from OGG files to WAV files. "
    and, "By default, the zip file will contain everything you need but the audio file format will be OGG. I don't really know what this is other than a highly compressed audio format, but PinSound requires WAV files to work - sort of." And "This requires that you convert the OGG files using the tool listed below. "

    That is where I got confused.

    So why will OGG files not work, but "You simply copy the ZIP file you download to the provided USB driver, insert into your PinSound Board, turn you pin on and the PinSound will extract and convert the files as needed." How can that work with OGG files?

    Initially, trying to follow what I thought were the instructions in your posts, I unzipped the file, converted the OGG files to WAV. I then installed those files into the USB stick into the file structure that PinSound recommended on their site. It did not work. Why are the WAV files in the proper (I think) file structure working, but files zipped in the wrong format (OGG) working?

    As others have said here, 'Mr Tantrum has said several times that you have to convert the OGG files to WAV' - meaning 'read the instructions you idiot!'

    #600 3 years ago

    The PinSound boards only support WAV format. The files are presented in ZIP files as OGG because it is a high compression, which makes the files significantly smaller to post on the website and to transfer.

    There are two ways of installing an orchestration.

    1) Automatic - copy the ZIP file to the root of the USB and put it in your PinSound. Upon initial boot the PinSound board will automatically unzip the contents, convert all OGG files to WAV, build the correct file structure, then remove the ZIP file from the USB. This takes significant time to accomplish, but after the first time it is done the orchestration is ready to go moving forward. Once this is complete, if you will put the USB back into your computer and look at the orchestration file structure in the "audio" folder, you will see that each orchestration has its own folder, under this you will see some primary classification folders (e.g. music, sfx, voice, etc.), and under each of these you will see numerically named folders (some will have descriptions after the number) and inside of each of these one or more WAV files.

    2) Manual - this is where I outline the tools to use to manually convert all of the OGG files to WAV on your computer, and then to copy the file structure onto the USB. This is much quicker and achieves the same end results, but you do need to use third party tools. If you are developing and manipulating sound files quite often, then this is the preferred method IMO.

    Nobody here is an idiot, and while I love the PinSound bros. and their products, their documentation is not always that intuitive. You can follow their automated process, but I prefer to do things manually due to speed and control. What it comes down to is that there is a fairly rigid file structure, and you can simply delete/copy audio files to and from folders as you desire using standard file copy methods. The entire reason I started this topic was to try to give some clarity to those who wish to interact with and develop orchestrations. If you're just a guy who wants to download an orchestration and use it, it can be really simple by following #1 above.

    There are 1,404 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 29.

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