Should have been standing against pricing 4 releases ago, from all companies that do preorder.

Yes I would. I don't care what the theme is. It's just a game. I can pretty much afford any game I truly want, but I'm not dripping in money. I work hard to earn it. I'm not spending it on something half assed. If I just want to look at it I'll buy a nice limited edition print or something. Spend a fraction of the money to just stare at something cool.

If it's truly a great title later when it's finished I'll buy it used. That's how I got my METLE, which I love. But I didn't go through all the code angst, I waited. I stupidly didn't on Star Trek, which I bought because I really wanted to do an alt translite for it. So in that sense it wasn't a total waste. But it was a good lesson. Never again.

Here's the reality: Stern doesn't do the code until the game is basically done. Just read the Pinball Magazine interview. JT straight up talks about how unfinished the code is, how they they don't know all the rules yet, etc. The game is on display at CES, apparently shipping soon.

So yeah, there's your problem right there. Someone else can support that ridiculously dysfunctional system, ain't gonna be me.

Yeah, but the Premium isn't selling. And so all the LE/Prem features they never bothered to turn on don't mean much, ops and collectors buying Pros don't care. I mean the asteroid flashers never go off during the game. Don't tell me that's hard to program. It's simply that they don't give a shit. Apron lights don't do crap. I'm guessing they never will at this point. Wish they would, that's super disappointing, but I've lost faith in anything but a bug fix finally coming out at this point. I'm sure it will at some point, it was supposedly close.

I TAKE THE PLEDGE!

What? 10% of your collection is Gottlieb

I am also taking a pledge, Two new WWEs ordered today. Got to make up for some of you.

Because buyers are savvy & know the code is boned. Premiums aren't limited so no reason for buyers to buy it incomplete. Same thing happened with AC/DC at first...after a few magic updates, Premium started selling like a mofo. They still have the ST license for 2 more years. It benefits them to sell as many ST's as they can within that time.

Easy pass for me. Even if it ends up being an amazing players machine, I hate the theme and that's important enough to me to warrant a pass on this one. I pledge to never buy this pin.

The more I think about it today the more I want to bail

Stern can't finish shit on a familiar platform. How can I believe they can finish WWE on a new platform?

I can't have a $7K+ toy with missing modes, worthless inserts, missing LE features, bugs, years of being stroked & possibly never seeing code completed.

Life is short so I'm gonna buy something but it's unlikely to ever be a new release.

If I was Stern, I would also debut a brand new platform on a low volume game. It is actually much less expensive that way. Engineering changes are cheaper in small runs. If there is a huge problem I am fixing a couple hundred games max. This is just one way that businesses control costs.

Wrestlemania is just a Beta Test machine guys. Don't worry so much about it. New platform, all new electronics design. As a pinball person, you were expected to not like it. It is a very smart way to do it. Once the shakedown cruise is over they can really start taking passengers.

I won't buy another machine without playing it first. I broke this rule for MMR because I knew how it played but then came to my senses about possible issues with a new platform. Change the title to don't buy anything until you've played it. Period.

Well and there's no Premium right now. Maybe there will be, maybe there won't. If there isn't do you really think they're going to spend much time coding stuff for the 400 LEs, that are already sold? That project will keep getting kicked down the road.

The interview with JT was cool, but it also revealed how unfinished the code is. The game is supposedly about to ship. So this is obviously business as usual on this one, SPIKE ain't changing shit about coding last minute and half assed.

Anyone who's pre-ordering the LE (that we haven't even seen) strikes me as being somewhat foolish. Just say no!

It's not selling out in 5 hours. Hell you can pick up a nice HUO TWDLE right this minute. There's no point in rushing to be first.

Better to have it out there I a general market than in our hands freaking out over what we will certainly notice. Maybe it's strategery..

OT: and thankfully you did. Made this ridiculous wait somewhat more manageable. Shameless plug for your TL.

I'm taking the pledge....buuut, you know it's hard if the theme resonates with you bigtime. Doesn't seem like anyone here is that passionate about wrestling, so it's easy. Something like Lebowski on the other hand - I'm hooked by theme. I feel like almost all my dream themes have been made at this point....so it should be easy for me to abstain from now on. Then again, if someone does RUSH ...I'll probably have to break the pledge lol.

I'm still happy to wait, even on the themes that really grab me.
TBL, ALIEN and Hobbit are all must have themes for me but I wont buy until they are here and I have played them.
I did put a 1k deposit down on Hobbit which does go against my grain but the remainder does not have to be paid until the game arrives and I am satisfied with it. This type of arrangement is the way to go imo.

I indeed made a deposit on a WWE LE

Don't give me shit you bought a F'n WOZ

I'm back to normal PW79 now. Somehow I forgot Stern takes years/infinity/never to finish games.

Truthfully last night I was also considering buying 3 NIB Pros all at once from the same Distro to get a really good price. My idea was to order a MET, ST & WWE. For reals, that would be fun & cost less than a used shitty Kia.

But Stern doesn't manufacture complete games. Only "out of production" games have a chance of being finished.

Aurich you brought up a point I pondered earlier today. If no premiums are sold will Stern code LE features for 400 people? Nope, ask that STLE meteor

I pledge, well unless Braveheart or The Walking Dead is done with the actors actual call-outs and music and is more fun to play than the current one. Then I unpledge.

I agree, I am out unless "dream themes" come along, which there aren't too many I can think of that would make me buy NIB anymore(from Stern).Walking Dead was one of my dream themes and that failed for me and I didn't buy it so I am stronger than I thought. I still am hopeful JJP delivers good products out the door with good code and hopefully DP and Heighway do as well. I'm not opposed to buying NIB if I get good working code out of the box and it's updated quickly along the way. Stern has kicked me in the nuts enough times that they don't fall in this category so I won't buy from them until they change that model(not to mention the LE - Premium later nut kicking is lame as well)

Wasn't there a thread early last year " Take the PLUNGE..........Send your money to DP"?

I wouldn't even accept one as a gift!

Jeez, the simple answer is always PLAY IT FIRST. I got ST NIB, but I played it first so I knew what I was getting. Sure, I want Stern to hurry up and finish the code. Make my potato flashers work - hello! ....but I knew what I was getting, and about one year later I'm still happy with it.

I'll buy one just as soon as I get delivery of my RAZA..... not too soon....

Just get Metallica. Star Trek isn't worth buying with the code as is. I'm sure eventually it will get another update, but who knows what it will even bring.

I will pledge to break my pledge of no pre-orders if they do a RUSH pin. You with me brotha?!

Much respect, but I've got to disagree here. Talk to Eskaybee, he can talk some serious strats and stacking for ST. ...and the lightshow on the Premium rivals anything out there IMHO.

Oh Contraire..... Let me retort...

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I could never pay more than $5K for a pinball machine. I think my wife would put me in the dog house and I'd have buyers remorse for spending that much.

I love Tron and still agonized over a really good deal on a used one that came up locally. It cost more than my entire collection up to that point. I can't imagine buying a new pin based on theme alone.

Strat-schmatt...as long as the extra lights have no code and it's got bugs, there's no reason to buy one at this time.

AMH is great and I highly recommend it with the new code and all. It's a deep game

I don't get how Stern can me so late with code updates. I am not saying that coding anything is easy - but it seems that they would have a lot of solid examples, and source code to pull from, libraries, internal frameworks, etc.

D-bag post. If you don't want to purchase it fine, I'll buy what I want.

They kinda did that on the "cheap era" games - Iron Man, Avatar, Rolling Stones, Tron and Big Buck Hunter all have similar "cut & paste" rules. Once they started making different style layouts/rulesets again, it was harder to cut & paste old code.

No more NIB for me until Stern has a proven track record to complete code releases... Sorry guys I actually do not mind the theme and probably could have bought an Undertaker LE and for that matter a Mustang LE, but sorry Stern it ain't happening. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!!!! Prove me wrong, make me a buying customer again...

I know Eskaybee loves it. Meanwhile he's tired of Metallica and I still play mine nightly.

Actually the lightshow is really a double edged sword. Yes, the RGBs on my Premium look great. But they also serve to remind me that the rules use them so badly. And it's just a shame. A real missed opportunity since the Pro has the RGB inserts too, there was no reason the rules couldn't have been so much more creative around the use of color.

Not to mention the useless asteroids. Which I don't even care about that much, it's more of the principle of it. They're sitting there, hanging in your face, and more than a year after the game came out they're still useless lumps. It's a great visual metaphor for how much Stern cares.

The update had a lot of work done to it before it got broken again, maybe they'll make time to fix it and get it out there. They can do it while people bitching about how incomplete WWE is.

This is a machine that will rot NIB years later. It will get stored next to Transformers, Avengers and Mustang. You don't have to boycott this machine. This will be a one and done and they will move on to another machine with hit or miss results. Hopefully we get a Guardians of The Galaxy (Groot Multiball please) along with a Star Wars pin. Obviously WWE pulled into Gary Stern's driveway with a brinks truck.

I certainly don't want to turn this into a JJP vs Stern on the coding, and yes Stern has way more games. But it seems to me that Keith is taking personal pride in making sure that JJP pins have solid code, and frequent updates.

Keith is a big reason I am optimistic about The Hobbit - I feel it is very likely to have great code day 1, and even better code after rollout in sprint fashion.

Um... maybe. But people were really optimistic with WoZ, speculation about Keith having a super secret code vault that was going to spill open on release (all showing of code to date was super rudimentary)... and that did not happen. Sound familiar?

I would expect rudimentary initial code, with lots of follow up. And if your are surprised on release, then icing on the cake.

So your saying if you send jjp 1k they will send a hobbit to your home to play and if you like it then you send the rest of the money?

No, this is with the distributor in Australia.

That makes sense....I thought it sounded too good to be true!

Buy whatever you want with your money. The 20 of you that are all worked up are not going to make a dent or change anything with stern. Everyone knows what you are getting into and the risk you take if you buy NIB without playing the game. You also risk crappy code for a long time an potentially forever. This is not a new approach by stern. It's pretty much always cheaper to wait but if you want the game now it's your money.

I'm not into rasslin but the layout at least looks cool and new. Not sure about it's lastability but I applaud the unique layout. If Ritchie puts out GOT with an LCD later this year stern won't be able to accept my money fast enough crap code or not

I like how it is one of the biggest preorder lemmings who started this thread (sorry Ice, not sure of a more friendly way to put it...).

I am sorry, call me a person of little faith, but I have seen so many apparently otherwise rational people say "no preorders" just to flipflop the second the next game is announced it boggles my mind. If you can keep your wallet in your pocket for a year, I will be surprised.

I just hope you keep enjoying pinball, and your preorder heartaches work out eventually.

Addicts and addict behavior. I need counseling ...