Way too many ...on plane right now flying back from finishing up loading IPB which was about 9 53' truck/rail cars over 5 trips in about a month and a half ... And I hadn't planned for that!

May not matter much….but thanks Rick.I sincerely feel a lot of us pinheads appreciate your efforts.

MB would be much better to remake. Less of them out there. I agree tons of TAF's out there. Great game but others first please

F it.

I am trying to help you out here and I do not even need anything TAF related. You are blind to the fact that your continual passive aggressive half truths make you appear like a giant DB and do nothing to improve your already piss poor reputation with your customers. You come off as a rich whiny kid who has all the cool marbles that he will tell you about but never let you see or play.

Is it really so hard to either:
1. state the facts as clear as possible
or
2. just not talk on every title where there is a remote chance that you will ever make a part you own the license for.

In case anyone wants a translation of "rick speak" on TAF so you can weed through the bullshit...

This translates to "We do not think it is currently a good business move since they were previously made and we also have to procure licenses beyond the one we got through purchasing IPB"

This further translates to "We do not currently have all the needed licenses, but if we ever decide we can make a truck load of cash and it is worth buying the extra needed licensees then we will do so at that time. In the meanwhile, please keep hoping that we are making will make them very soon"

lol ... you're translation tells me you have some things going on so I doubt we are going to make any progress addressing you ... talk about passive agressive!

rick

TAF was remade, and the first LE as well... back in 1994.

Rick, I figured you guys would make a couple machines to get your ducks in line, and then start making new machines. Now you are doing this through Stern and it doesn't appear if you will become a separate manufacturer.

Is this the future for your production?

We have many sources for production ... Stern was the best for MMR. Small run games would not be, there will be more things coming which will require different capabilities (and run rates) for production ...

rick

You could have saved time by directing Rick to your thread with the $1200 TAF playfield, if your market assessment was anywhere close a new run would seem pretty attractive, especially since the "impossible" licensing requirements are probably a bit less daunting for licensees now that Pinball Arcade has (re)paved the way.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-or-ft-nice-condition-used-original-taf-playfield#post-1558315

_{Post edited by fosaisu: fixed link}

.

Rerun everything.

And give it away for free

Bwahahahaha truth !!

well considering that pf sold months ago and quite a few others since that time for 1k+ I would say it is very telling that there is a market for more TAF pfs.

Luckily they are getting done with or without the proper liscenses, so people that need them will get them.

Hilton ... this was a quote from you I think 7 months ago:

So now, we OWN 100% stock of IPB (i.e. own everything it owns), and so all agreements transfer, as well as the Addams license was still in effect, and now you are putting out this bullshit ... you lose credibility everyday, perhaps you should take a break and figure out why you behave the way you do ... you may be my first ignore ...

rick

I can only imagine how crap they will be

Rick,

You may want to seriously think about the difference of me talking about a business that frankly sucks (as shown by the head of that business coming to an online collectors forum to continually bash on customers and the competition) and you trying to defame my character and the ramifications of your actions.

If you are incapable of understanding the possible ramifications then I suggest you talk to someone else in your business that does and can possibly provide some good insight to you.

You really need to just shut up...

It seems to me that Rick is not the one doing the bashing here.

PPS has already made a number of things available that otherwise would not have seen the light of day. Frankly, I'm quite excited to see what the next few months will bring as they start going through the truckloads of stuff they acquired from IPB.

Are folks itching to have certain repro playfields and parts? Absolutely. I'm sure PPS will be more than willing to produce and sell them as tooling, production, and licensing allows since there is demand for them. Demand=eager customers. Eager customers=sold products. Selling products=a healthy business.

I can't think of a good reason why PPS would hold back longer than necessary on stuff that folks are eager to buy, so I'm sure we will see that new stuff in due course.

Hilton you bash everyone equally and not sure how you manage to stay off most peoples ignore list. Rick is in the drivers seat you need to deal with that: He has been very professional to most people on MMR and has a ton of power to make things know one else can legally. I am excited that I may have a chance to buy a new taf or playfield and don't understand why you keep on bashing. Your just making yourself and pinside look terrible. Best of luck on your next witch hunt but your posts at this point are a bore.

Rick, from someone who has been watching everything on the sidelines, I just want to say thank you very much for all you're willing to do for this community.

The fact we could see nearly anything we want come into fruition is just awesome. Please don't let a few select people bring you down. I would strongly assume you have the vast majority of us pulling for you.

Best of wishes in all you do. I hope you are successful (and bring out BSD parts) . Good luck,sir!

Rick, At what point does it not make sense to reproduce? If you can buy them for $4k in ok shape now does it make sense to remake them? I always figured that anything that sells for $6k or less right now wouldn't justify a remake. I wish you would announce what is getting remade so we can get on with it. I can't tell you how many people are not buying pins right because they think every good title will be remade and we know that is not the case. (or maybe it is the case)

Highly unrealistic to expect PPS to announce definitively, today, that it will only ever remake a set list of titles, or that it will only ever remake games if the average OK price exceeds $4k. What other business works that way?

Of course for people that want to treat pinball machines as collectibles, the kind of "this will never be remade" guarantee you suggest would be nice. But it would make zero sense for a company like PPS to make that kind of pledge.

Having said that, I think your basic concern about people not buying for hope/fear of a remake only applies to a handful of expensive titles so it's hard to see it as a huge deal for pinball as a whole. (If there's anyone concerned about games in the $1000-$3000 range being remade, for instance, you sure don't hear about it on Pinside).

I would just like to point out, for the record, that my original assumption of IPB's rights and licenses to TAF and many other B/W titles still being active and the subsequent transfer of those rights and licenses to the new owners, PPS, was indeed correct. I reasoned that the only real reason that Rick would even consider buying out IPB is for the full, exclusive rights and licenses that they still had and were just sitting on.

There are a few of you in this thread that denied sound logic and assumed Rick wouldn't be getting those rights. I argued that it wouldn't make sense to do this deal without them.

This is an excellent post. I understand PPS has reasons for when and if it announces something but I agree, the coy innuendo serves no purpose other than to intentionally cause market disruption. It's tiresome. How about something like,"At the moment, PPS is focused on MMR. There have been discussions internally to an order of games the will be remade. Once we evaluate the roll out of MMR, the order may change based on our evaluation. Having said that, as it stands, outside forces and price points withstanding, it is my desire to roll out MB, then Afm, etc, etc. Please keep in mind, this is no garuntee that any, all or in that order, games will be produced but at least you understand where PPS is at this moment in a very exciting time in pinball."
See how that quells rumors, fears and speculation. If you can't tip your hand for whatever business or personal reasons, then keep the innuendo to yourself. You can't bemoan speculation and misinformation when you are fanning the flames.

Lol.

If "nobody is buying anything" it's because prices are too high. If you want to sell your stuff stop pretending it's still 2012 and lower your prices, and rick's evil "market manipulation" will be irrelevant.

The answer to that question is 'when it does not make sense' ... so if demand is high enough and price is enough higher than cost, then it may make sense. I'm not sure about you, but when I look around for a TAF they are very expensive and hard to find. Doesn't really matter if they made 100,000 of them, could be that everyone keeps them because they like the game ...

Just because 'you' have one doesn't mean there are lots of others who do not (I don't have one and have been looking for a decent priced one in good shape for years) ...

rick

Look no further, and wants a trade LOL https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ft-huo-taf-amazing-unmolested-addams-w-papers

If gene was about to go under, why didn't he utilize this and start pumping out pf's to sell and make money?

lol ... wants to trade for an $8K mmr ... I guess one data point for TAF's being worth something (at least in the owner's eyes) ...

not exactly sure, but in the pinball biz it takes money to make money ...

Really Rick? Where have you been for the last *22* years???

that was just a response to counter that TAF is not a popular nor an high priced title ... despite them making so many of them ...

If rick does make them, he'll have to invite that jackass reporter back to the factory to make more smart ass comments like he did in that interview in the 90's

I remember when new sterns (fully loaded SM, BDK, FYG, etc) were available for $4k NIB. I am sure there was a profit baked in.

PPS is in the business of making money. They don't just compete against Stern and JJP. But pin restorers as well.

I think Rick gave a great answer, if there is enough perceived profit they will consider.

I am curious the average price of TAF + restoration costs (self or outsourced) compared to potential TAFr. That might help Rick with is decision. I imagine that to be more then or equal to MMr price. Not that I would buy one for that price.

I will bet good money that TAFr never happens. Demand is high but still plenty out in the wild to play and in most decent sized collections with much less general desirability than MM.

There are too many parts to make the profit needed based on what nice ones sell for currently. Unless remakes are profitable at 5k, then it is not happening.

4 flips, 5 pops, bookcase mech, thing mech, lots of under pf subways and mechs all add up pretty quickly.

I actually think the remake market is relatively limited unless prices can come way down.

I remember Vid said one time the BOM for a pin is around $1200. I can see TAFr being profitable at $5k, but I think many people will buy one even at $6k. Heck, that's how much people asking for a unrestored used one.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-taf-6600-zip-48186#post-1792718

Problem being that the remake market is only so deep and there are many better opportunities for profit than TAF.

TAF is so far down the list from a business perspective, has a higher BOM than many other games, requires multiple liscense agreements, requires redevelopment and creation of many parts that are no longer available/ being remade currently, and woudl require more assembly time it just won't make sense.

Toss on that the current supply of originals and it would be silly compared to other remakes, namely AFM which has half the parts and hence a much lower BOM with higher demand and hence higher total profit.

Rick is one heck of a smart business person and I don't see him doing anything but what is best for his bottom dollar with the time available.

Count me in for:

BBB
IJ
AFM
AF
MB
SS
TOTAN

remakes

where do I send my $?

AFM I'm in. I'm not sure TAF would be snatched up as quick as AFM...there's lots of TAF's out there still the biggest problem is finding a really nice TAF especially pf's. I think it would depend on price to customer. How much are you willing to spend on a brand new TAF.

Heavy metal meltdown gets my vote

I think it makes a lot of sense for PPS to do this. They sell parts so they not only make money on new games but they make it on the parts they sell for the old ones. I bet those restore parts sales for MM, MB, CC etc. have slowed down to a trickle. Rick could certainly give a heads up without a "pledge". I agree, not a huge deal when you are talking pinball as a whole but when you look at pinball from a $$$ tied up perspective it is a big deal. I throw us pinheads into 3 categories:

1. Player- in the hobby just to play
2. Player/Collector- likes to play while making or not losing money
3. Collector- doesn't really play just likes making money and looking at them

Two of the three have some financial concerns and these two most likely have the largest collections (and buy the most new pins). I could be wrong just my own observations from being in the hobby the last 15 years. I think the "remakes" alienate #2 and #3 and may have a negative impact on new (title) pinball machine purchases. Who wants remakes when the manufacturer should be focusing on bringing new, exciting titles to market? We will see, the market will ultimately dictate if there is room for more remakes. Any way you slice it, a fun time to be in pinball for sure.

where do I send my money?

TAF pins aren't cheap--even badly routed ones seem go for $4k-$6k. Pristine ones go for $8k or more. If you can get a NiB TAF for $6-$8, I'm sure there would be plenty of buyers.

Just because there were a lot of them made originally, doesn't mean they all survived. A lot of them were probably parted out. Plus, it's still simply a highly desirable pin regardless of the number of them in the original production run.

I'm in for TAF, it was my first ever pin and still one of my alltime faves, I'd buy a NIB in a heartbeat. Don't think I could resist....

Exciting times indeed! I definitely get the concern about limited money going to remakes instead of encourage new titles. I'm less concerned about declining prices on high-end pins alienating collectors since I'd hope there would be a collateral benefit of new hobbyists getting a chance to own A-list pins at slightly more reasonable prices (I'm admittedly biased there since I'm new and own only one game).

But for either of these concerns I just don't see that PPS has a big financial stake in the outcome, definitely not enough to justify that PITA that would inevitably follow from even a "heads up" type announcement re: its plans for the next X games. Once that's out there if they don't adhere to it perfectly, people are going to complain, and loudly!

You raise an interesting idea about the potential for PPS to damage its parts sales business. But it's kind of hard to imagine there's still a huge stockpile of rough condition top-tier games that would have been fully restored (with PPS parts) in the next few years but-for anxiety over remakes driving down prices a bit, and that the loss of that business has been a significant hit to PPS. Of course only Rick knows for sure.

Hey I don't care about all the bickering and stuff, but Rick/PPS can you PM me or add me to a list or something for when / if you remake TAF playfields?

Worst case scenario is that rick redoes the pf's and does them correctly and makes bank

Who Hilton or Rick? I think Rumor mill Rick runs his chops way too much as well. He likes to create these rumors as if he's going to remake everything for everyone.

You can tell Rick loves himself way too much and loves the attention he creates… I hope it all bites him in the ass some day.

I don't think a TAF remake could realistically happen. As others have said Rick would have to get the price point to $5k-$6k for a TAF remake.

Bottom line is... It costs about the same to manufacture MMr as it would to make TAFr. Price point on MMr is $8k. If it costs PPS the same to manufacture both machines and Rick drops the price point to $6k for TAFr, vs. $8k on MMr, it shows how much money was made on MMr. It just won't realistically work.

I just don't think enough people would jump on a TAFr for $8k.

Repro playfields for TAF, however, I could see as a realistic and viable option from a business standpoint.