(Topic ID: 294291)

TAF Purchase - Need feedback, was this restored, should we keep?

By TAFSWFL

5 months ago


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  • 95 posts
  • 50 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by bsobie
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 95 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 months ago

Welcome to Pinside! This is a great community with some eccentric members. We’re all passionate about pinball. There’s lots of great information if you take the time to look and ask questions. Hopefully someone in the Tampa area can help you find a suitable TAF.

#52 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

Actually, my husband did tell him that he hoped that this was just a big mixup and my fully restored game was still waiting in the warehouse, to which he replied that restoration means different things to different people. He delivered it personally, so he was aware of at least the playfield condition. Made a point to tell us how some of the lighting had been replaced with LEDs and the rubbers and bumpers were replaced.

I can assure you this is NOBODIES definition of restoration. Thank goodness it sounds like they are willing to refund you and do the right thing. Don't worry, you'll find a much better one now!

#53 4 months ago

I'd really try to find your next game here on pinside from someone that a few people can verify or if it's off Facebook or Craigslist see if you can pay a local knowledgeable pinsider to meet you there for $100 and give it a look for you.

#54 4 months ago

This is exactly why you don't buy from retailers. Also, always go see the game in person and take it home yourself. Too many horror stories of pictures not matching what was received or games with forklifts through the cabinet or falling off trucks on to the side of the road.

#55 4 months ago

I don't think this TAF was restored maybe fixed up a bit too sell for 12k it should be like new with no wear anywhere

#56 4 months ago
Quoted from NPO:

This is by far the most qualified person in this thread to not only define what a restoration is but also give you sound advice. Refund and dont look back. And tell us who the seller is so we can help others steer clear of this experience.

I wish I weren’t but after seeing this scenario play out so many times and often having these type of games and bad experiences filter through here it’s just sad.
I have to say this may well rival the TAF nightmare from last year. That one at least had a new playfield but when I read the story of this and saw the pictures it just gave me a deja vu moment.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-nightmare

#57 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

Very helpful with the links to archived posts. Thank you!
I am not looking to bash anyone. Just was looking for advice as to whether we should keep or return, even though we were 99% sure we were making the right call in advance.
Already looking at the marketplace here, eBay, Craigslist, etc to continue to educate ourselves and look for our new machine.

Yes, I would strongly encourage you to return it. You would be able to find a much nicer example for a few grand less.

As others have said, this is a player's condition game, not a restored game. It may have been cleaned and at least partially shopped, but certainly not restored.

#58 4 months ago

That's really sad that people give our hobby a bad rap by ripping off new folks wanting to merely enjoy a game. Shame on the retailer. It makes you wonder how they stay in business. How do they sleep at night ?

#59 4 months ago

There’s a retailer here in the Cincinnati area that has been fleecing people for decades.

#60 4 months ago

return it asap and be sure to get all of your money back

#61 4 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Postal:

That's really sad that people give our hobby a bad rap by ripping off new folks wanting to merely enjoy a game. Shame on the retailer. It makes you wonder how they stay in business. How do they sleep at night ?

Stay in business by selling a $3500 game for $12k

#62 4 months ago

Happy Birthday by the way. Hope next year is better.

#63 4 months ago

Take your refund ASAP!
Now I just wanted to say that this is a small and tightknit community of some very good people who go out of their way to help newcomers into this hobby so to see this happen Angers all of us here! The seller has taken advantage of you and he knows it, this is absolutely disgraceful on his part! Sellers like this are Parasites that prey on newcomers to this hobby. In the future if you are looking at purchasing a game and are unable to travel and see the game in person please reach out to this community many of us have been here for many years and can tell you who the reputable sellers are and we can also help you to go through photos of machines you are looking at and give you an honest opinion of the machines condition and value and try to help you to steer clear of scams and machines that are misrepresented.
Good luck to you I hope that you get resolution on this.

Ps. Happy Birthday

#64 4 months ago
Quoted from Pinball_Postal:

That's really sad that people give our hobby a bad rap by ripping off new folks wanting to merely enjoy a game. Shame on the retailer. It makes you wonder how they stay in business. How do they sleep at night ?

That behavior sure as shit isnt mutually exclusive with some people here on Pinside......

#65 4 months ago

I wouldn’t be waiting on them to come pick it up. It would already be in my van with the engine running.

#66 4 months ago

This is what a high end restore should look like...

http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/albums.php

Pick any of them to see the pic process.

#67 4 months ago

Ya that's not a restored TAF at all I would get your money back and find someone on here too deal with instead

#68 4 months ago

I do hope you are able to get your money back.

Just an FYI. A local retailer in a mall(not the same company) just sold an Addams. It was fully working, but had magnet burn, weak flippers, and a broken slingshot plastic. What did the proud new owner pay? $11,000. Just ridiculous.

34
#69 4 months ago

They came and picked up the game this morning, and called to say they had processed the refund.
So, while the game is gone, and I won't be able to have it at my party tomorrow, all things considered I think it was the best possible result in this situation. I read through the post that HEP posted of the guy who was out $13K from the CO seller, and I am still in disbelief.

The greatest part of this experience was becoming more involved with this community than just merely looking for where I could find TAF to play. I have to say this is one of the most helpful, inclusive, and well-meaning groups that I have ever joined. For all of you that have weighed in here, wished me a happy birthday!, and those that have taken the time to private message me with advice, we truly appreciate it. My husband said that he was very happy that I found this group, as it really helped us understand that we weren't crazy for having a different expectation.

#70 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

I won't be able to have it at my party tomorrow,

Was just renting the TAF for a one-off party a possibility?

#71 4 months ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Was renting the TAF for a one-off party a possibility?

That is a good idea, but no, not really that important.

#72 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

They came and picked up the game this morning, and called to say they had processed the refund.
So, while the game is gone, and I won't be able to have it at my party tomorrow, all things considered I think it was the best possible result in this situation. I read through the post that HEP posted of the guy who was out $13K from the CO seller, and I am still in disbelief.
The greatest part of this experience was becoming more involved with this community than just merely looking for where I could find TAF to play. I have to say this is one of the most helpful, inclusive, and well-meaning groups that I have ever joined. For all of you that have weighed in here, wished me a happy birthday!, and those that have taken the time to private message me with advice, we truly appreciate it. My husband said that he was very happy that I found this group, as it really helped us understand that we weren't crazy for having a different expectation.

Thank you for the update.
Its a long shot. But, you could contact Little Shop of Games in Lutz Fl, about an hour north of you.
They rent games, there's a small chance they could deliver a game for the party in time. Might not be an Addams, but renting a game for a month is a good way to dip your toe in the pinball pond.
And, Happy Birthday!

#73 4 months ago

One remaining question that I do have that wasn't touched upon before.

We watched a leveling tutorial on a different game. Our game's pitch was 1.3 degrees greater at the top of the playfield than the bottom. Is this normal for TAF? Would this mean warping of the playfield? (We got a digital level, so we are certain that the measurements were correct)

#74 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

One remaining question that I do have that wasn't touched upon before.
We watched a leveling tutorial on a different game. Our game's pitch was 1.3 degrees greater at the top of the playfield than the bottom. Is this normal for TAF? Would this mean warping of the playfield? (We got a digital level, so we are certain that the measurements were correct)

Yes , must be warped. Some variation may be expected on an older game but over 1 degree is quite a bit. Such a game can still play okay but the ideal is a consistent pitch.

#75 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

They came and picked up the game this morning, and called to say they had processed the refund.
So, while the game is gone, and I won't be able to have it at my party tomorrow, all things considered I think it was the best possible result in this situation. I read through the post that HEP posted of the guy who was out $13K from the CO seller, and I am still in disbelief.
The greatest part of this experience was becoming more involved with this community than just merely looking for where I could find TAF to play. I have to say this is one of the most helpful, inclusive, and well-meaning groups that I have ever joined. For all of you that have weighed in here, wished me a happy birthday!, and those that have taken the time to private message me with advice, we truly appreciate it. My husband said that he was very happy that I found this group, as it really helped us understand that we weren't crazy for having a different expectation.

You really dodged a bullet. If you are going to spend that much on a machine next time go see it in person with someone who really knows them.

#76 4 months ago
Quoted from jhanley:

You really dodged a bullet. If you are going to spend that much on a machine next time go see it in person with someone who really knows them.

i agree. op should really tell us who this is so that we can avoid them in the future.

#77 4 months ago
Quoted from Syco54645:

i agree. op should really tell us who this is so that we can avoid them in the future.

See post #41

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#78 4 months ago

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

#79 4 months ago

To answer the original question(I needed 2 minutes to regain my composure), keep the AF and come to my house right this minute, and consider buying every single possession I own!

14
#80 4 months ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

YEAH! You tell em keyboard cowboy!

I mean no one has EVER made a mistake during their first foray into pinball!

#81 4 months ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

How dare someone buy a pinball machine from a game room store in a shopping mall. The audacity!

20
#82 4 months ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

Can you please tell me where in this thread I asked for any sympathy? I simply asked for advice because we didn't feel that the game was delivered as described and needed feedback from those who we felt would be best able to give it.

My husband is one of those rare people who does what is right, even when no one is looking, and expects others to do the same. It was a gift and I had no knowledge of the process. We have learned a lot, and I remain appreciative of this group. In the end we were able to get a refund, so no harm, no foul, and if my post helps anyone else, then it is worth it.

And there are never 100's of TAF for sale. We have been window shopping for a long time. There are rarely more than a dozen available at any given time.

#83 4 months ago
Quoted from deeznuts:

Happy Birthday by the way. Hope next year is better.

Haha. It is actually all pretty perfect for a 50th, I think.

#84 4 months ago

I'm really shocked that someone who would sell something like that for that much would refund the money that easily.

14
#85 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

So, while the game is gone, and I won't be able to have it at my party tomorrow,

You'll have a better party tomorrow without that piece of crap and your money back.

Happy Birthday !

LTG : )

#86 4 months ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

... are you okay?

#87 4 months ago
Quoted from jhanley:

I'm really shocked that someone who would sell something like that for that much would refund the money that easily.

Chargebacks are very costly to companies. Chargebacks can raise their transaction costs, and if they get too many they can get their merchant account revoked.

#88 4 months ago
Quoted from jhanley:

You really dodged a bullet. If you are going to spend that much on a machine next time go see it in person with someone who really knows them.

A bullet? More like a financial cannonball to the gonads.

Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

.......what? I dont even know where to go with this one.

OP, ignore that comment, go to Little Shop of Games for a sound purchase, and chalk this up to one heck of a learning experience. I remember this happened to me on a Data East JP for $2.2K back when it was a $1500 game. Parts of me were puckering so hard thinking I had lost that kind of money. Got $2K back and learned after that: trusted Pinsiders or distributors only.

It happens to all of us. Glad you made it out unscathed.

#89 4 months ago
Quoted from NPO:

go to Little Shop of Games for a sound purchase

+1 to Little Shop Of Games. I'm not local but I buy stuff from them all the time and many friends have bought games there. They're awesome and have amazing customer service.

#90 4 months ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

That's a bit harsh. Maybe the OP looked at many of the overpriced machines on here and elsewhere and thought they were getting a fair deal. Many buyers take a risk even when buying in person and having knowledge of what to look for. I don’t see the OP looking for sympathy.

#91 4 months ago

.

11
#92 4 months ago
Quoted from elcolonel:

I am calling baloney, on this entire thread, from post 1!!! Buyer beware. I have not one drop of sympathy for the buyer, and yes dog me out because the poster may be a woman(I say may to patronize the aliens that are so common in Western society), but you have literally 100's of choices!

When I first entered the hobby I had no idea what I was doing. I spent hours researching how to build a game from scratch since I wasn't aware you could even still buy games.

Then my research finally led me to buying my first game. It was completely dead, and pins were completely foreign to me. But it was exciting, and since I was reasonably handy, I thought I could bring it back to life. I did hours more research and asked questions when things were unclear or when I got stuck. Then eventually, after following the advice of the kind folks on the forums, I was able to get my first game up and running.

Everybody's journey is different. The important thing is that the OP recognized something seemed off and asked for help and advice.

Sometimes asking for help and advice can be a difficult thing to do, especially if you think you may have made a mistake.

I don't fault a new buyer at all. What I do fault is your particular attitude towards new people in the hobby. You should know better. I would suggest that you try to make more of an effort to be more understanding.

TAFSWFL, some of the best parts of this hobby are the people in it and how friendly and generous they can be. I know the past year and a half may have been somewhat stressful, so not everyone is quite at their best. But I for one am looking forward to seeing some of my pinball friends in person again. Maybe some of us will get to meet you and your other half at a pinball show for the first time.

If you have any more questions, I'm sure plenty of folks here would be happy to help.

#93 4 months ago
Quoted from TAFSWFL:

Chargebacks are very costly to companies. Chargebacks can raise their transaction costs, and if they get too many they can get their merchant account revoked.

Smart, you paid with a credit card. You would be shocked how many of the folks here pay cash or via wire.

14
#94 4 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

When I first entered the hobby I had no idea what I was doing. I spent hours researching how to build a game from scratch since I wasn't aware you could even still buy games.
Then my research finally led me to buying my first game. It was completely dead, and pins were completely foreign to me. But it was exciting, and since I was reasonably handy, I thought I could bring it back to life. I did hours more research and asked questions when things were unclear or when I got stuck. Then eventually, after following the advice of the kind folks on the forums, I was able to get my first game up and running.
Everybody's journey is different. The important thing is that the OP recognized something seemed off and asked for help and advice.
Sometimes asking for help and advice can be a difficult thing to do, especially if you think you may have made a mistake.
I don't fault a new buyer at all. What I do fault is your particular attitude towards new people in the hobby. You should know better. I would suggest that you try to make more of an effort to be more understanding.
TAFSWFL, some of the best parts of this hobby are the people in it and how friendly and generous they can be. I know the past year and a half may have been somewhat stressful, so not everyone is quite at their best. But I for one am looking forward to seeing some of my pinball friends in person again. Maybe some of us will get to meet you and your other half at a pinball show for the first time.
If you have any more questions, I'm sure plenty of folks here would be happy to help.

Great story. It made me think back about my own. It seems like this is a hard hobby to break into. It’s probably easier for people with bigger budgets with all the new games and options but for those of us that started in the dark days it was much tougher.
Here is mine. My first experience in the hobby.

Around 2000 I was converting my garage into a gameroom.
A pool table was a must,darts a tv.
I was out and about one day and I stumbled into a “home gameroom store”
There were pins!!!!
I never even thought about having my very own real pinball machine!
I walk the floor and look at the games and prices. In hindsight they were insane but I knew nothing about pinball specifically other than I have always loved playing it and seemed to be pretty good at it compared to others in my various arcade travels.
In this store I can remember there was the following
Hurricane
Breakshot
Creature From the Black Lagoon
Corvette
X files.

Maybe a couple others that didn’t make an impression on me at the time.

I walked up to the counter and asked what would be a good machine.

The owner told me “That Breakshot over there is a whole lotta game for the money!”
It was $2600 the Creature by contrast was $2800.
I said “Great let’s go with that”
Wrote a check for $2600 loaded the game up in the back of my truck with the legs on and head up then booked it home.
A couple friends came by and helped me wrestle it in the house.
We thought it was fun and had no idea what it was supposed to do nor how.
Once everyone cleared out I did what I always do I started investigating it. Looking inside,seeing the test menu stuff like that.
I soon discovered it had numerous bulbs out. A Capcom will tell actually you that specifically and other errors.
Upon discovering that I called the store and was assured they would come out and take care of it.
Great I thought!
Then I dug a little deeper. Seems like the fair market value of this game in excellent condition at that time was $900. This one wasn’t in excellent shape not at all. On top of that it is considered a bit off brand and not a sought after title for the manufacturer.
Okay now I am pissed. Not just because I overpaid by a lot but because I was clearly played for a sucker by the owner of the gameroom store.
“A lot of game for the money?!?!???!?!!!” Get real!
It took some wrangling but after some uncomfortable exchanges and threats I was able to return it for a refund maybe less a little bit but whatever it was agreeable.
I then discovered Brady distributing here in town. They had a home sales division and a perfect refurbished Breakshot for $1000 with a thirty day warranty.
Bought it and the condition was so superior to the first I bought it restored my faith in the hobby and sparked my desire at that time to collect.
After over twenty years in this hobby and obviously the business/service opportunity that it eventually became for me it is pretty amazing to relive that experience.
One of the most rewarding vindication’s of this experience is that eventually both the owner of the gameroom store that suckered me and Brady distributing became customers of my own at some point along the way. I don’t think either are in business anymore but it was flattering at the time.
Full circle without a doubt

#95 4 months ago

They played you guys for a Fool! They already showed you who they are and what kind of business they conduct! Believe Nothing they say!! Load it up... take it back... get your money back! Don’t let other get burned by them!

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