TAF potentially losing it&#039;s mind

I've ignored playing this one for a bit......anyway

a) Hit start button once....immediately went into 2 player mode
b) Heard a random solenoid firing on occasion during the game...couldn't figure out where it was coming from
c) Brief text " warning" would show on screen, accompanied with audible " help me".....
d) Game went back to single player mode before end of game

Where to start?
Batteries, ribbon cable, CPU , etc,?
Just when I think I've seen it all....I've seen nothing.....help!!!.....mark

#2 9 years ago

MEL

blondetall

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11y 99,300 6,269

image-490.jpg

#3 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Quoted from blondetall:
image-490.jpg 5 KB

Trust me...I thought the same thing!!!....absolutely no alcohol or substances running through me now.....

Thought I imagined it the first time....second time, I stepped back from the machine and uttered "wtf" ( quietly)

Third time just sort of ignored it

I'm going back to play it now......if I don't post in a few days...send someone......

#4 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Well.....started me 250k at beginning of game.....then got the "warning" text, along with " help us" audio on ball 2....just did a factory reset....guessing the ROM has to be going south, replacing that will be next step....

#5 9 years ago

MEL

blondetall

Pinside+ Member

11y 99,300 6,269

My mom has her 3 pins in her bedroom. Her TAF has been weird lately, with the flippers not working and the ball getting stuck in the swamp. But if it started doing what yours is, especially the "help me/us" callout, it would be in the back yard as fast as possible. Good luck with it!

#6 9 years ago

WTR

TrainH2o

Pinside member

Calhoun, GA

9y 27,650 673 6

My solution is to sell it to me for under $3K.

Otherwise, go into the switch edges test and see what switch is freaking the switch matrix out.

#7 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from blondetall:
My mom has her 3 pins in her bedroom. Her TAF has been weird lately, with the flippers not working and the ball getting stuck in the swamp. But if it started doing what yours is, especially the "help me/us" callout, it would be in the back yard as fast as possible. Good luck with it!

Ha....just did a full factory reset, 4 games in, and seems to be behaving....trust me,I'll be keeping my eye ( and ears) on that joker for awhile.....hearing the " help us" audio w warning text is VERY freaky, to say the least

Quoted from TrainH2o:
My solution is to sell it to me for under $3K.
Otherwise, go into the switch edges test and see what switch is freaking the switch matrix out.

I'm going to do a switch matrix test tomorrow, when more awake....I've had switches go out quite a bit, but never triggering this kind of response .....

I like talking to them...but when they talk to me.....

#8 9 years ago

RUS

RussMyers

Pinside member

Linwood, NJ

12y 76,550 2,886 7

What does your MPU board look like?

Any damage from leaking batteries?

First place I'd take a real careful look.

#9 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Quoted from RussMyers:
What does your MPU board look like?
Any damage from leaking batteries?
First place I'd take a real careful look.
RM

Agreed.....Batteries seem fine, leak wise ( someone actually soldered a lithium in the holder before I got it).....wonder how long they last?.....that's why I thought the " help us" call out w warning text might be some kind of low battery indication...I've just never seen ( or heard) that before......

#10 9 years ago

SKQ

skquinn

Pinside member

What you're hearing as "help us" may actually be the standard tilt warning callout of "careful."

#11 9 years ago

WTR

TrainH2o

Pinside member

Calhoun, GA

9y 27,650 673 6

Quoted from skquinn:
What you're hearing as "help us" may actually be the standard tilt warning callout of "careful."

That was my thought. I suppose the "Ghost in the Machine" could be bad ROMs, but the phantom scoring sounds like a problem with the switch matrix.

I know that I had a broken switch wire on TOM. It would register at hit and score with the ball sitting in the shooter lane, and when the ball was on a different part of the playfield. It also confused the switch matrix, causing other things to happen.

#12 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from skquinn:
What you're hearing as "help us" may actually be the standard tilt warning callout of "careful."

My thought too.....would it also say "warning" on the screen briefly?...I definitely heard " help us" as callout at the same time.....happened mid game, ( 3 different times) no tilting to my knowledge...

Batterie checked good on mpu board, did find a loose ribbon cable....reseated....I'll be playing it more shortly.....

#13 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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I did seem to hear a solenoid or something " clicking" or firing during the incidents...guess it wouldn't hurt to pop the top and look for shorts somewhere....

#14 9 years ago

WTR

TrainH2o

Pinside member

Calhoun, GA

9y 27,650 673 6

I have seen both DANGER and WARNING, on the DMD, of various games, as a tilt warning.

#15 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from TrainH2o:
I have seen both DANGER and WARNING, on the DMD, of various games, as a tilt warning.

Just got done playing the machine, and beating it pretty well ( toured the mansion twice)...."danger" and "danger,danger" came up a couple of times throughout, and I would swear its a male callout saying " help us" at the same time, but maybe it's saying " danger"...

I've had the game a few years, and never run into this before.....tilt bob seemed centered, but I will pull the glass and do a switch edge test tomorrow.....it's my oldest, and highest mileage game, and suspect you are right that a switch could be triggering something.( my ramp switches seem a bit odd, as well)....strange

At least it seems the mpu and related is ok.....I think....

#16 9 years ago

RUS

RussMyers

Pinside member

Linwood, NJ

12y 76,550 2,886 7

That seems the way to go - throw it into Switch Edge test and test every switch in the matrix.

#17 9 years ago

WEB

Magic_Mike

Pinside member

Atlanta, GA

11y 56,550 2,985 20

Take a look at your schematics and see what the regulated 12 volts on the driver board control.

#18 9 years ago

SKQ

skquinn

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from MK6PIN:
My thought too.....would it also say "warning" on the screen briefly?...I definitely heard " help us" as callout at the same time.....happened mid game, ( 3 different times) no tilting to my knowledge...
Batterie checked good on mpu board, did find a loose ribbon cable....reseated....I'll be playing it more shortly.....

I think TAF goes "warning" then "danger danger" then "TILT". But that is strictly from memory.

#19 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Quoted from skquinn:
I think TAF goes "warning" then "danger danger" then "TILT". But that is strictly from memory.

Making progress......" Warning", "warning, warning" then "tilt"......the callout is "careful", not "help us" ( whew Blondetail, I can call off the exorcist)....discovered all of this by purposely moving the plumb bob during gameplay...now, I just have to figure out what is causing it.....reseated the connector on the board by the left flipper ( where all the action is for this stuff)....venturing into switch edge test shortly, as I still think there's some problems there......

Obviously, I've been doing work on my WCS, and TRONLE, so it's pissed at me....how dare I play it without giving it some attention first.....

#20 9 years ago

SKQ

skquinn

Pinside member

The most worrisome part of this, to me, is that it immediately brought up a second player and then went back to one player mode before the end of the game. The rest of it can be easily explained, but those two problems point to either bad RAM or other weird and not-so-wonderful MPU board problems; in fact, they are more in line with something I'd expect an old EM game to do.

#21 9 years ago

S S

PinsideTroll

Inactive member

New Castle, DE

10y 49,650 937 12 10

check the tilt on the coin door?

#22 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from skquinn:
The most worrisome part of this, to me, is that it immediately brought up a second player and then went back to one player mode before the end of the game. The rest of it can be easily explained, but those two problems point to either bad RAM or other weird and not-so-wonderful MPU board problems; in fact, they are more in line with something I'd expect an old EM game to do.

Well, I love the game, so it's a keeper....would you just pickup a Rottendog MPU, and some new ROM to put a nail in it....? The board in there is from 1991, and I replaced the power driver board not long after original purchase. I don't want to throw $$$ away, but it seems the new mpu sort of logical...

Do you remember if it's the WPC089-TH, or the WPC-S?......thanks guys....

#23 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Quoted from PinsideTroll:
check the tilt on the coin door?

???....think there is just one switch ( door interlock) on my coin door....am I missing something?

#24 9 years ago

SKQ

skquinn

Pinside member

Quoted from PinsideTroll:
check the tilt on the coin door?

That's the slam tilt and would only be checked if the whole game was resetting (I think TAF was one of the games that put diagonal lines across the DMD if slammed).

#25 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from skquinn:
That's the slam tilt and would only be checked if the whole game was resetting (I think TAF was one of the games that put diagonal lines across the DMD if slammed).

Got it....that's the switch mounted to bottom of cab?.....think that one is prob fine, haven't experienced that....definitely worried about the mpu, however.....

#26 9 years ago

S S

PinsideTroll

Inactive member

New Castle, DE

10y 49,650 937 12 10

slam tilt.jpg

maybe it isnt the problem, but make sure there is gap. here is pic from mine

#27 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from PinsideTroll:
maybe it isnt the problem, but make sure there is gap. here is pic from mine

slam tilt.jpg 265 KB

My bad.....found it....plenty of gap....when I engage it says "slam tilt" on DMD , and game field resets....

#28 9 years ago

NCB

CubeSnake

Pinside member

Newtown, CT

13y 77,575 1,038 17

Quoted from RussMyers:
What does your MPU board look like?
Any damage from leaking batteries?
First place I'd take a real careful look.
RM

^ This.

#29 9 years ago

REH

Imeh

Pinside member

10y 56,650 1,415 10

If your mpu and power driver boards are original and haven't been updated before, they most likely need work, even if they function. Cracked solder joints, burnt headers, caps, etc are all common on these. If you intend to keep it and don't mind a little down time, I would send to someone like Chris Hibler ( if he is taking on work) and have him bulletproof them. May or May not fix your issue, but a worthwhile investment, and cheaper than new boards.

#30 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Quoted from Imeh:
If your mpu and power driver boards are original and haven't been updated before, they most likely need work, even if they function. Cracked solder joints, burnt headers, caps, etc are all common on these. If you intend to keep it and don't mind a little down time, I would send to someone like Chris Hibler ( if he is taking on work) and have him bulletproof them. May or May not fix your issue, but a worthwhile investment, and cheaper than new boards.

Great advise!!!....changed the pb to a Rottendog sometime back, but the mpu board is original....I'll PM Chris....do you have his Pinside name?....thanks .....

#31 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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"advice"...not "advise".....good grief....

#32 9 years ago

REH

Imeh

Pinside member

10y 56,650 1,415 10

ChrisHibler No space. Not sure if he's taking work or not but he did mine, both boards for my TAF and my TZ. I had also replaced them with RD boards but when we did the restorations, we put the originals back in. Many prefer the originals.

#33 9 years ago

JMG

Pintucky

Pinside member

Bowling Green, KY

13y 85,300 2,306 18

Not trying to hijack your thread, but I had a problem today with my TAF.

The DMD started going crazy and became unreadable. All kinds of raggedy screen to the point I couldn't make out anything. I had a new DMD from another pin and hooked it up and got the same crazy stuff. I'm going to switch out the ribbon cable tomorrow and see if that is the problem, but can you guys think of anything else YOU would check for in case that's not it? Could it be a RAM is going bad?
Thanks,
Mike in Kentucky

#34 9 years ago

DAD

Pinmeister

Pinside member

Cherry Hills Village, CO

14y 65,300 1,083 19 13 1

Quoted from blondetall:
My mom has her 3 pins in her bedroom. Her TAF has been weird lately, with the flippers not working and the ball getting stuck in the swamp.

There are several switches in the swamp subway. One is probably bad.
Check fuses for flippers for continuity. Visual inspection is often inadequate. Also check flipper voltage.

#35 9 years ago

DAD

Pinmeister

Pinside member

Cherry Hills Village, CO

14y 65,300 1,083 19 13 1

Quoted from Pintucky:
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I had a problem today with my TAF.
The DMD started going crazy and became unreadable….can you guys think of anything else YOU would check for in case that's not it? Could it be a RAM is going bad?
Thanks,
Mike in Kentucky

Check power supply to the dmd and the dmd controller.

#36 9 years ago

CSM

HighSpeed1

Pinside member

Rock Hill, SC

11y 39,900 698

I've had bad swamp switches before, ran me around a bit till I figured out which ones were bad, when you do your switch test, best to use the ball to actuate each when ever possible. A game I just purchased has all switches working when activated by hand, but not when the ball passes under, over, etc. So using the ball is the best way. One of my Sys11 games was just sitting there in attract mode when it let out a terrible downward repeating spiral sound, when I ran to the room to have a look, the display was signaling something about a bad checksum or something. I managed to catch the location number before it went blank. Turned out that one of the main MPU chips had lost proper contact in the socket during the warmup/expansion of the backbox in attract mode. After pulling, and re seating the chip, that error has never returned. On every chip I always use the De-Ox it in the tube and just wet each chip leg before inserting back into the socket. It makes a world of difference on the ease of removal/install of the chip, and greatly improves the chip to socket connection.

index.jpg

#37 9 years ago

DAD

MK6PIN

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Quoted from Pinmeister:
There are several switches in the swamp subway. One is probably bad.
Check fuses for flippers for continuity. Visual inspection is often inadequate. Also check flipper voltage.

3 actually, and they must close in the right order....I remember I had a rough time getting it sorted out....no worries on hijacking the thread, btw.....seems lots of TAF issues out there...I spoke w Chris, and may want to hold on a bit until I can actually identify what the %$^&# is going on.....it behaved nicely last night.....mark

#38 9 years ago

MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Maybe I missed it, did you reseat all the ribbon cables yet?

#39 9 years ago

DAD

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Quoted from Miguel351:
Maybe I missed it, did you reseat all the ribbon cables yet?

Actually found a loose one in between the MPU and power board.....I'm blaming it for everything right now...or at least until it shows up again.........

#40 9 years ago

JMG

Pintucky

Pinside member

Bowling Green, KY

13y 85,300 2,306 18

Quoted from HighSpeed1:
I always use the De-Ox it in the tube and just wet each chip leg before inserting back into the socket. It makes a world of difference on the ease of removal/install of the chip, and greatly improves the chip to socket connection.

Never heard of this before, but wonderful idea! Thanks for sharing.
Mike in Kentucky

#41 9 years ago

DAD

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