(Topic ID: 124698)

TAF getting flakey..MPU? FIXED

By MK6PIN

8 years ago


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  • 86 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by MK6PIN
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 86 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 8 years ago

FWIW, that video helped me immensely with IJ4 matrix problem. (Turned out: was the f'ing opto installed too tightly. Ditto with the replacement opto.) Drawing the box and focusing on the corners is useful - it points out the one oddball that doesn't have your attention yet.

#52 8 years ago

So at it again ......are all the optos supposed to be closed, then open when you interrupt with your finger ( greed optos on TAF)?

#53 8 years ago

image.jpgimage.jpg

#54 8 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

are all the optos supposed to be closed, then open when you interrupt with your finger

In general yes. There are a few situations where an opto is initially blocked, in which case it would read open and then closed when you "remove" whatever is blocking the beam.

#55 8 years ago

Look at pic 1 and 2...first w right ramp off, second with it on:

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

#56 8 years ago

actually first pic has the switch closed, second open....how do I draw the rectangle and find the diode?

#57 8 years ago

Left ramp does the same:

image.jpgimage.jpg

#58 8 years ago

Center ramp switch:

#59 8 years ago

image.jpgimage.jpg

#60 8 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

how do I draw the rectangle and find the diode?

Look at your switch matrix in your manual, make a copy of it and draw a rectangle, or take a piece of paper or cardboard and cut a rectangular hole and hold it over the switch matrix.

Look at the earlier picture on this thread where the person drew the blue box around the switches on the matrix.

LTG : )

#61 8 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Look at your switch matrix in your manual, make a copy of it and draw a rectangle, or take a piece of paper or cardboard and cut a rectangular hole and hold it over the switch matrix.
Look at the earlier picture on this thread where the person drew the blue box around the switches on the matrix.
LTG : )

I can see the matrix on inside of Backbox light panel.....can't make sense of where to start....

#62 8 years ago

image.jpgimage.jpg

#63 8 years ago

best I can make...shooter lane ..column 5, row 1?

#64 8 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Please watch this video...it explains very well switch matrix problems and how to diagnose using the 'box' theory.
» YouTube video
Basically:
1. Go into switch on/off test and determine which switches are already closed
2. Mark them on a copy of the switch matrix
3. Go into switch edge test and test a switch that causes multiple problems
4. Mark the tested switch and mark the false switch indicated
5. Draw a rectangle around those three switches (one you tested, one that was false positive and one that's normally closed)
6. Check the diodes on all the switches in the corners of the rectangle.

Did you watch the video posted for you ?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZgSyTmyZAxM?autoplay=1&rel=0

LTG : )™

#65 8 years ago

Yep....but w optos already closed , very confusing....I'll watch again...

#66 8 years ago

It might help you if you remove all the balls...you want to start out with as few switches closed as possible...cover opts with a piece of cardboard too. That will probably eliminate the problem if you start with no switches closed. Then introduce one at a time until the problem replicates.

Once you have one switch closed, then one triggered and one false one draw the box

#67 8 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

It might help you if you remove all the balls...you want to start out with as few switches closed as possible...cover opts with a piece of cardboard too. That will probably eliminate the problem if you start with no switches closed. Then introduce one at a time until the problem replicates.
Once you have one switch closed, then one triggered and one false one draw the box

Good idea....

#68 8 years ago

Think I've narrowed it to the "Thing" opto.....truthfully ( embarrassed) don't know where that switch, diode is....I unplugged the main opto board underneath, but doesn't affect it...anyone know when it is?

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#69 8 years ago

Found it...

#70 8 years ago

....exercise in futility so far...but identified all components...checked diodes in my rectangle....shall have another go tomorrow....at least cleaned up some solder joints in my hunt....this is a good one, I must admit.....

#71 8 years ago

Watch the video and then do the same thing with your game: when switch A and B and C are closed then switch D falsely indicates closed. You only need three of the switches to determine the rectangle. So if you have A and B and D, you can figure out which switch is C. Finding the pattern is the hardest part; the resolution once you've done that is typically pretty easy.

As robertmee suggested pull all of the pinballs and see if the problem goes away. Then add one ball back at a time until the problem shows up again.

Be aware that things are slightly different when dealing with optos since there is no direct physical link like there is with a switch. The best way to deal with this is to remove the connectors on the opto boards (the row/column ones) and see if the problem goes away.

The article that goes with the video will provide more background info on how the switch matrix works.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

#72 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Watch the video and then do the same thing with your game: when switch A and B and C are closed then switch D falsely indicates closed. You only need three of the switches to determine the rectangle. So if you have A and B and D, you can figure out which switch is C. Finding the pattern is the hardest part; the resolution once you've done that is typically pretty easy.
As robertmee suggested pull all of the pinballs and see if the problem goes away. Then add one ball back at a time until the problem shows up again.
Be aware that things are slightly different when dealing with optos since there is no direct physical link like there is with a switch. The best way to deal with this is to remove the connectors on the opto boards (the row/column ones) and see if the problem goes away.
The article that goes with the video will provide more background info on how the switch matrix works.
http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

It's the opto that is false triggering , 3 different ones from 3 ramp switches.....when I disconnect the opto board connector, it looks like the problem is gone, but it's not...a real head scratcher for me...

#73 8 years ago

So if I'm understanding correctly...

If you disconnect the opto board and trigger a ramp switch, an opto still registers on the switch edge test with the ramp switch?

#74 8 years ago

No....if I disconnect the opto board, the switch edge on the ramp only registers itself ...

#75 8 years ago

I'm convinced it's in the opto driver board ( large one that's bolted to the underside of the playfield...pulled it once, and diodes, resistors checked good...getting 12v...but there are 2 resistors that get way too hot ( IMO) when machine is on ( can't touch them)...maybe a trace is damaged or something....going to pull it and put on my bench under magnifying glass to investigate further.

Will post w pics if this is it later on...mark

#76 8 years ago

Convinced this is the culprit...massive heat and traces look like crap, even though diodes check ok, think there is a break in the trace....best place to get one?

#77 8 years ago

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

#78 8 years ago

Found it GLM makes an upgrade.....

#79 8 years ago

That looks pretty typical to me. They all get like that. I'm not sure if GLM has new ones or not, I've got some rebuildable ones if you want an original.

They all get hot under those resistors. All. That's actually not bad compared to many!

#80 8 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

That looks pretty typical to me. They all get like that. I'm not sure if GLM has new ones or not, I've got some rebuildable ones if you want an original.
They all get hot under those resistors. All. That's actually not bad compared to many!

Agreed.
Since you've isolated the issue to the opto board, one or more of the LM339s may have failed.
Simple fix with the right tools.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#82 8 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Agreed.
Since you've isolated the issue to the opto board, one or more of the LM339s may have failed.
Simple fix with the right tools.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

And a real easy swap out with the one in his WCS to test the theory

#83 8 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

And a real easy swap out with the one in his WCS to test the theory

This we shall.....speaking of my WCS....intermittent prob for another thread...one at a time however.. ....

#84 8 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

And a real easy swap out with the one in his WCS to test the theory

Just swapped w my WCS and BAM....that was the problem!!!...I'm going to buy two of the GLM new models, as both of these machines are keepers, for me...THANKS FOR THE HELP!!! I've learned more about my games yet again ( also found a dead " Thing" opto in my testing....never ends) ...mark

#85 8 years ago

Keeper to me is the reason why I'd fix the originals

#86 8 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Keeper to me is the reason why I'd fix the originals

Ouch...guess you're right....I ordered the GLM's from Tony already, figuring the new version was " new and improved" as these are just player machines ( but still valuable to me)....thanks again...mark

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