(Topic ID: 277735)

T2 DMD issues and game resetting as well.

By Arcade

3 years ago


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  • 271 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Arcade
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#102 3 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Don’t know how to check for correct transformer or power selection plugs but I do have another meter at work I can bring home and eliminate that as well as the wall outlet.

Well, you've already checked the "power selection plugs" in posts #25 and #35.

The simplest way to check for the correct transformer is by looking at the part number printed on it. It should be a 5610-12835-00.

#106 3 years ago

I am trying to find a clear pinout for the 5610-12835-00 transformer , but I can't seem to find a manual with the transformer clearly represented. I was looking at a fuse table for my Fish tales when I noticed that it shows 2 different line filters , for 115v or 230v, with different current rating. It says the line filter is 5A for 230 and 8A for 115.

It could be possible that the line filter is acting up. I think you should measure the AC voltage just as it enters the transformer (directly at the power select plug you showed in post 35, between white and black (not the looped one) wires.

It would be a good idea to measure all the voltages coming out on the other side, but that's the info I don't have. It is scattered over the manual , at the different connectors. The discussion is ongoing so I will post some more soon.

#107 3 years ago

These pictures are from my Fish Tales , but it is the same transformer , so colors should be the same.

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#111 3 years ago

Here, I decided to measure all the outputs of the transformer. You should disconnect the 3 output connectors (with the machine turned off) and then turn it on. Measure all the pairs I have color identified and compare the voltages. This way we'll see if the transformer is outputting correctly. The gray , gray/white and grey/green wires are center tap, so you'll read 20 Volts on each side and 40 volts from gray to gray/green

In the other connector , all 3 yellow are the same wire and all 4 yellow/white are the same wire so measurement can be taken from any pair. I would still test them all , leaving one probe on the yellow, then touching all yellow/white, and repeat again with all yellow wires. It should always read around 8v.

The 2 purple wires should measure 110 VAC

5610-12835-00 output voltage (resized).jpg5610-12835-00 output voltage (resized).jpg
#115 3 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Wow.
Well done chart
Thanks a million for taking the time to do this.
I already have them unplugged.
But before I get started is it just as simple as it looks?
Set meter to AC voltage and put both leads in the matching colors?
Even the two purple 110 volt? Always scary measuring this one so I want to double check.

Yes it is, set the meter to Volts AC (The wavy line). Take your time, use a third hand tool, or someone's help to hold the connector as you take your measurements. Don't touch the probes together when you are taking a measurement and you'll be fine.

#118 3 years ago

DumbAss beat me to it, I had prepared another quick picture , but was pulled away by the GF.. I also noticed pin 4 and 7 are swapped. I posted my connector earlier and the wires are just like the schematic posted. It looks like the white (neutral) wire is connected to the white/brown instead of white/orange. This wiring is indeed incorrect according to the schematic, so I won't be surprised if you return to us with slightly different values from what I posted for the output. If you look at the schematic, the transformer has 2 coils. With the correct wiring , both coils should end up in parallel, but your wiring is not effectively placing both coils in parallel. Please report with your voltage readings when you can.

EDIT: Added lines in blue where the neutral wire should be on the coil , and in red where it currently is , showing a part of the coil is missing from the circuit.

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#120 3 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

So far I have just done the purple 110 wires.
They read at 130 volts

That's too much. Keep them coming. It is looking more and more like those swapped wires are the culprit. 115 volts should be applied to the entire coil , but instead some windings are skipped, affecting the ratio of the voltages.

#121 3 years ago

Logically, not all wires will be affected by this. There are 2 coils in the transformer and one of them is powered correctly, so many voltages should be really close to what I posted for my machine. Others will be off by a bigger margin, as they are fed from the coil that is not wired correctly.

#123 3 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

So far I have just done the purple 110 wires.
They read at 130 volts
All yellow measure 9.26
Red = 11.6
Red/white = 20.3
White = 101.0
Yellow = 65.3
Green/white = 14.8
White/blue = 17.2
Not sure I understand the 20 Vac grey, green and white area
Is that enough?

Well, yes we have enough readings to compare them and you definitely have voltages that are too high.

You next step is to swap wires 4 and 7 back to their rightful places (turn power off first!) and measure the purple again to start with. Then the white pair.

The grey, grey green and grey white all work together. If you measure from grey to grey green, you would get 40 volts. From grey to grey white would be half of that because it is "center tapped". Meaning they made a 40 volt coil, but put a wire right in the middle of that 40 volts, making two 20 volts coils. This is common when you need + and - voltages (mostly used in audio for better amplification). So measure any 2 of the grey wires and get 20 or 40 volts depending on the pair you measured.

Edit: mixed up grey/green and grey/white in my explanation, fixed.

#126 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I was once asked to help a friend fix a GI problem on his High Speed. Nobody else could figure it out. The GI was either blowing a fuse or the wires were getting warm/hot. Turns out that someone swapped two of the wires going into a Molex connector that came out of a transformer. I am guessing the wires were swapped when the wires were re-pinned on the Molex connector.
As for this ... I've seen all sorts of "hacks" on the transformer voltage selection on machines re-imported from Europe. It was probably easier to hack the wires and get the desired result than understand how to select voltage input on the transformer primary windings. This problem might very well be due to someone swapping the wires to try to change voltage levels slightly. Or it could've just been a mistake. I doubt it left the factory that way but you can't rule out that the factory made a mistake all those years ago.

I have a dedicated Mortal Kombat 1 Cabinet that I paid 500$ CDN about 20 years ago. It came with version Proto 9 , and no sound! When I looked into it, the factory had wired the potentiometer for the volume using the opposing pins, using the pot as a resistor, a resistor that was set to high to output any volume at all. You could tell it had never been modified since it was built, with original wires and soldering. This error could very well be from factory since Arcade did say the game worked fine for years..

#153 3 years ago

I would think that if the scrambled DMD was damaged due to over voltage, any symptoms could happen, including game resets. Over voltage is a nasty problem and breaks electronics in many different ways. I would feel safe running the game with a known good DMD now that the voltages are back to normal. It should be fairly easy to tell since your machine reseted so often and seems not to reset without the dmd or with the good one.

#158 3 years ago

On my Fish Tales U14 has a socket, but my machine doesn't have a ROM there. Yours should be on a socket as well. Try pushing on the chip or pulling it out with a small flathead screwdriver where you gently lift it from each side one after the other and putting it back in. Can you inspect the pins to see if they need to be re-soldered ? If a ROM goes bad and fails its checksum test, it will never ever pass it again. It would be real bad luck that this ROM died over night. So if at any moment you boot the game and don't get that checksum error, I would assume the data on the chip is still good, but connections to it fail sometimes. I would try to pull out and re-seat a few times the ribbon cable interconnecting the cards. This could very well be caused by a bad connection somewhere on the data bus and re-seating the ribbon cable could always help.

I've only been learning about pinballs in the past month since I acquired my first pin (Fish Tales). I have been repairing electronics for the past 20 years though. I just tested on my machine and if you pull out the ribbon cable from the DMD and put it back in , the display continues to show you graphics. You say that restarting the machine will have the dmd work for 4-5 games, I would try once the display is showing garbage , to unplug the ribbon cable and plug it back in. Is it still garbage ? If so , I would then try to unplug the ribbon cable first , and then the power connector next (be careful if you do, there's high voltage there). Plug the power connector back, then the ribbon. Still garbage ? Then the DMD is likely not at fault. If unplugging the cables fix the DMD , then the DMD would be to blame. I understand its a "new" one , but you did try it in the machine when it still had high voltage issues I believe? Maybe that new dmd was damaged by the high voltage as well.

If you always have garbage when unplugging the cables from the dmd and only when you restart the entire machine the garbage clears , the problem isn't from the DMD but on one of the boards. You also said there's a new dot matrix controller in there.. Which was also connected to the high voltage ? Then it *could* have been damaged as well..

It sounds like something is affecting the data lines, creating checksum errors and garbage on screen. I am not yet knowledgeable enough with workings of the different boards and how they all interconnect, common issues and etc. Perhaps some of the Gurus around here might have a specific chip in mind to check. You do have the luxury of having more pinballs with similar boards if I'm correct, now that the voltages are fixed I don't think you risk much swapping some boards to isolate which one is causing the issue IF we can't isolate the issue. If you do swap boards, I would swap one at a time, if the issue persists, leave that board there and change another, and keep doing that until you've changed the right boards, then one by one I would put the old ones back and test after each one, just to make sure the issue hasn't affected more than one board. It is a lot of work, but in the end you'd be sure exactly which board is the culprit.

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