(Topic ID: 277735)

T2 DMD issues and game resetting as well.

By Arcade

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Arcade
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#1 3 years ago

Just recently took on a T2 to fix up with 2 issues. DMD is Garbled as in photo, and game will reset periodically.
Below is what I have done so far with the DMD issue.

1. Re-seated J101 and 102 as per pinwiki for the game reset issue. Have not pulled the main board off yet to check solder joints.
2. Swapped all ribbon cables with known working ones.
3. Swapped the DMD itself with a known working one.
4. installed a new DMD high power replacement board that just fits over the top. (also pictured here).
5. Checked all voltages below are my readings on the 8 pin DMD connector and the main board test points.

Pin 1 = 113.2
Pin 2 = 91.5
Pin 3 = Key
Pin 4 = Ground
Pin 5 = Ground
Pin 6 = 7.07
Pin 7 = 12.83
Pin 8 = 64.9

TP1 = 18.53
TP2 = 6.92
TP3 = 12.02
TP4 = .615
TP5 = Ground
TP6 = 87.8
TP7 = 26.2
TP8 = 20.6

Any help with my next steps is much appreciated.
IMG-8934 (resized).jpgIMG-8934 (resized).jpgIMG-8935 (resized).jpgIMG-8935 (resized).jpg

#2 3 years ago

I am now really suspecting a failed 6264 static RAM at U24 because at startup my display does look exactly like this before changing to the lines.

If anyone has a link to this IC chip I would appreciate it. All that comes up when I search for it is NVRam replacements.

IMG-8936 (resized).jpgIMG-8936 (resized).jpg

#3 3 years ago

Took my DMD controller board out of a working game and installed in T2.
Display works great. I will replace u24 once I find someone that sells one.
And if that does not work I guess a new board. (which I can only find at Big Daddy so far).

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Support Ed @ GPE.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6264LP-70
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6264LP-55
Otherwise ... search for "AS6C6264-55PCN" on your favorite electronics merchant website.

Thank you so much.
Will the 70 work just as good or better then the 55?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I think either will work. I don't know what the actual timing requirements are in terms of nanoseconds. I think the original ICs are rated at 100ns so either 70ns or 55ns is faster and compatible. I have used the AS6C6264-55PCN which is a 55ns part.

Got it.
Thanks again.

#8 3 years ago

Well after leaving my good DMD board in with the game in for awhile now the display is starting to act crazy again and the game reset.

So I am going to order a main board upgrade kit and replace the common failure points on the main board.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This is supposed to be 5volts. What were you using as ground when you were testing the voltages at the DMD? Best to wedge the one meter lead under the ground braid wire in the bottom of the backbox so you don't have to hold both leads.

This.
I had it wedged under the ground braid.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I don't know what you are calling the Main board. There is a MPU and power driver board.
With power off, press on all socketed parts (U9, game ROM and CPU chip) on the MPU board. This is potentially a problem.
If it still fails, measure the voltage C31 on the MPU board, with power on. What is the voltage? If 5v is lower than 4.9v, then reseat J101, J114 and J210, as these are usually the source of low voltage that cause a WPC game to reset.

Main board is the giant ass board with all the test points on it. Power Driver.
What is C31 and How do you measure it?
I have already reseated J101, j114 and j210.
I have also already pressed on all socket chips.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I don't see how you came up with 7volts on the 5volt rail. That is why I was asking where you were using ground from. Ground braid I see is what you did do, that's great.

C(capacitor)31 on the MPU board. Still using the ground braid for ground, use your red meter lead and touch the C31 on (+) side, which you will see labeled on the MPU board. What does the voltage measure? Just wanted to be sure you see the same voltage on the MPU as you do going to the DMD or not.

It reads 6.30 at C31

#16 3 years ago

Yes
I will post a pic and the tp voltage reading in a bit

#17 3 years ago

Test point reads 5.86 with J114 unplugged
Here is a photo of the board

145B38B7-AD23-4415-AFD7-089BE6F5D902 (resized).jpeg145B38B7-AD23-4415-AFD7-089BE6F5D902 (resized).jpeg
#18 3 years ago

Here is a photo of MPU as well

0D1C9DBA-E025-4EC4-85DD-F2FBAB04DDAF (resized).jpeg0D1C9DBA-E025-4EC4-85DD-F2FBAB04DDAF (resized).jpeg
#20 3 years ago

Ok.
I noticed c5 had been replaced as well.
I can remove the board tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for the help.

When my Addams Family had a 5 volt issue years ago it was the little c2 cap just to the left of c5 that had leaked and destroyed the traces under it.

As an aside, this game has been running fine in the house it is in for years without anyone working on it. Or so she tells me.
All the resets just started happening recently.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

No rush here. But before you remove the board, I had another thought.
Just wondering as well...does the serial number label (back of the game or on the right inside of the cabinet just above the power switch) show this as a 120v or 220v game? If it is 220, then you'll have to change jumpers on the input of the transformer most likely. But if it is 120v, most likely what I stated in post #19 will likely be the correct path.

I will check that tomorrow as well.
But she has owned this game for many many years with no issues.

#24 3 years ago

Had to run up next door where the game is and I’ll be damned.
Great guess.
Now how to fix ?
19F1AC04-E179-4CEB-B30F-30C74B3657F5 (resized).jpeg19F1AC04-E179-4CEB-B30F-30C74B3657F5 (resized).jpeg

#26 3 years ago

That will be a tomorrow task.
But I will get on it as soon as I can.
Thanks.

#28 3 years ago

Same here. Just up the road a bit.
Should be a non event for us here in Beaumont.
Galveston and the surge are the concern.

#35 3 years ago

Ok. Had a few extra min to run by the house and get a photo of the plug.
Also checked the fuse in the box and it is an 8 amp slow blow.
Not a 4 like stated on the box.

7F3BA82A-4E0F-407A-BC3F-5833C54D0E58 (resized).jpeg7F3BA82A-4E0F-407A-BC3F-5833C54D0E58 (resized).jpeg
#37 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Well, this is odd. It definitely started to sound like the input was wired different than 115v.
Looks like we will probably will need the picture of the back of the power driver board.

Ok.
I will take that out later today

#38 3 years ago

And away we go.
Only 1 jumper wire.
Here is the entire backside of the driver board and 4 close ups of each corner.

0C4461B1-8262-49D0-B71C-0BF7F4B0DD17 (resized).jpeg0C4461B1-8262-49D0-B71C-0BF7F4B0DD17 (resized).jpeg175577BD-6D42-4A73-B794-D792C22BF2FB (resized).jpeg175577BD-6D42-4A73-B794-D792C22BF2FB (resized).jpeg286F9C54-00A7-4620-B07E-3B3EECD24360 (resized).jpeg286F9C54-00A7-4620-B07E-3B3EECD24360 (resized).jpeg54EC0E63-A533-4A2D-9641-EF38EC4A5D0D (resized).jpeg54EC0E63-A533-4A2D-9641-EF38EC4A5D0D (resized).jpegE2CBDFB7-B2A8-41AD-8FFC-CE840DCFFB65 (resized).jpegE2CBDFB7-B2A8-41AD-8FFC-CE840DCFFB65 (resized).jpeg
#40 3 years ago
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#42 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Any chance your meter has low battery indicator on? That can cause some strange measurements at times.

I can put in a new battery.
Edit. New battery installed.
Want me to put the board back in and test the test points again with J114 unplugged?

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yes, please. I think you only need to plug in J101 and J102 on the right side to measure all the voltages on the board as you did in the 1st post.

Will do

#45 3 years ago

Here are the new readings just J101 and 102.

TP 1 = .997
TP 2 = 5.03
TP 3 = 12.04
TP 4 = .371
TP 6 = 90.6
TP 7 = 27.1

So TP 6 and 7 are way off base from what I can tell.

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Oh, I forgot the top left J112 does bring in the other 12V for optos and motors. Can you go ahead and connect in everything on the top of the driver board. Actually, you probably could go with all but J114.

Sure

#50 3 years ago

Sorry forgot about TP8. It is 22.1
TP 1 is now 18.6

#52 3 years ago

Sounds good.
And yes those guys are always welcome in my tech threads.
Chris fixed my Addams Family driver board many years ago for me when the C2 cap destroyed the board traces.

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

C2 is on my list to say to change so that doesn't happen here, but really should find out what really is going on with the other voltages first. So either have a driver board or transfomer issue here. Checking the AC voltage from the transformer should narrow this down.

I can tell by the way C2 is raised off the board that it has already been changed at some point.

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Measure the AC ripple as well as the DC voltage. Ripple should be low.
I agree that you should measure the AC inputs to J101, J102 and J112. The schematic lists the nominal values.
J101-1 to J101-2 should be 9VAC
J101-4,5 to J101-6,7 should be 13.3VAC
J102-1,2 to J102-3,4 should be 18VAC
J102-5,6 to J102-8,9 should be 51.4VAC
J112-1,3 to J112-4,5 should be 9.8VAC

Ok. Just so I don't do anything stupid, I read this as unplugging J101 and 102 and putting one lead on J101-1 and the other on J101-2 set to AC readout.
then on the next line I can put a lead on either J101-4or5 and the other lead on either J101-6or7 to get my readings.
Correct?

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Correct.
You should also measure AC ripple. Measure the ripple just as you would measure DC but set the DMM to AC. It will detect any remnants of the AC waveform not smoothed by the smoothing capacitor. If you see a reasonable amount of AC ripple it's a good indicator that the capacitor is not correctly installed in the circuit. This is usually due to someone pulling a through hole and not realizing it leaving the smoothing capacitor leads "floating" not referenced to the desired reference point.

Got it.
I will measure all that today.
I sure hope it does not turn out to be a through hole issue as repairing those is above my skill level.

#61 3 years ago

TP 6 at power on starts immediately at 87.8 stays that way for a long time.

AC measures the following unplugged.

J101 1-2 = 11.34

J101 4,5-6,7 = 16.73

J102 1,2-3,4 = 20.0

J102 5,6-8,9 = 2.5 (triple checked)

J112 1,3-4,5 = 14.75

#63 3 years ago

I can find 250 and 257
But not 260. Where is the little guy?
And with game on or off when I find it?

Edit. Just can’t find a resistor higher then R257

#67 3 years ago

R260 measure 5.3 with leads one direction and 10.14 with leads swapped.

#68 3 years ago

224 measures .09 and .09

We are using horseshoe/Omega setting on the meter. Sorry about not being a meter expert. Lol

#69 3 years ago

This is our meter for reference

1AC9182C-6216-437E-8EFB-9CD6740A4566 (resized).jpeg1AC9182C-6216-437E-8EFB-9CD6740A4566 (resized).jpeg

#71 3 years ago

Thanks. I will put it in correctly.
Will check my on hand supply but it will be tomorrow night at the earliest.

Thanks for all the help

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Can you post a well lit and in focus picture of R260? It's often a little toasty and I'd like to see if it is.
edit: clarification: as it is currently and installed on the board.

Yes. I will take the photo tomorrow. No problem.

#75 3 years ago
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#78 3 years ago

I will have to go to my local Electronics shop Monday. These are all I have on hand at the moment.

F2821CE6-71A9-4EB3-BAD8-FB3A50FF0D31 (resized).jpegF2821CE6-71A9-4EB3-BAD8-FB3A50FF0D31 (resized).jpeg
#79 3 years ago

Is this good?

380CB35B-8F47-4BF1-A8B3-AB6D0B5A63B1 (resized).jpeg380CB35B-8F47-4BF1-A8B3-AB6D0B5A63B1 (resized).jpeg
#81 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Yes. The higher value means that it will take longer for the +50V to drop once the power is turned off. It also means that it will dissipate less energy and therefore won't get as hot.
With non-loaded voltage at +75V:
- a 10k resistor will dissipate ~0.55W.
- a 27k resistor will dissipate ~0.21W.

Great. I’ll change it out tonight

#82 3 years ago

Changed.
TP6 is still 90 volts at power up

#84 3 years ago

Resistance
R224 is 0.5
R260 makes the screen go blank.

New AC readings.

AC measures the following unplugged.
J101 1-2 = 11.6
J101 4,5-6,7 = 0
J102 1,2-3,4 = 0
J102 5,6-8,9 = 0
J112 1,3-4,5 = 14.6

Makes no sense that ac measurements would change unplugged. But I simply can’t get a reading on those pins anymore.

#86 3 years ago

Yes. I had the power on.

I will try the AC again but I could only get those two readings.
I realize that nothing should have changed.

#88 3 years ago

I know what I did wrong.
I was testing pins 4 and 5 together and pins 6 and 7 together instead of 4 to 6 and 5 to 7.

Getting readings now

#89 3 years ago

AC measures the following unplugged.
J101 1-2 = 11.6
J101 4,5-6,7 = 17.10
J102 1,2-3,4 = 20.1
J102 5,6-8,9 = 65.3
J112 1,3-4,5 = 14.6

#90 3 years ago

Power off resistance is 0.5 on 224
And the numbers are all over the dial for the new 260. They will not stay still.

#92 3 years ago

TP 1 = 1.12
TP 2 = 5.06
TP 3 = 12.04
TP 4 = .385
TP 6 = 90.5
TP 7 = 26.9
TP 8 = 22.5

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Do you have J112 plugged in at the top left?

No

And thank both of you for taking the time to help with this.
So much appreciated

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Everything unregulated DC is too high (expected given the AC input). The other issue with AC that is too high is that can potentially cause problems in the DMC high voltage circuit (although that circuit is regulated with zener diodes).
Next thing I would do is measure line voltage. Please take care when measuring line voltage.
Another thing to compare is another WPC machine nearby that you could plug into the same outlet (or same circuit - on the same circuit breaker).
I can't explain the excessive AC voltage level. I'm just searching for potential reasons. As you can tell you are reaching the limit of my ability to help you.

Well luckily I have many other WPC games.
I can try tomorrow to plug this one in on the other side of the room with all my other working WPC games and see if anything reads different. And I can test the TP points in the exact same outlet.

#98 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Something really simple is being overlooked. I don’t know what it is.
Correct transformer?
Correct power selection plugs?
Meter malfunction?

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

Don’t know how to check for correct transformer or power selection plugs but I do have another meter at work I can bring home and eliminate that as well as the wall outlet.

#99 3 years ago

Different circuit and new meter just used.
All readings are the same.

Other WPC game on same circuit reads good on all test points.

At this point I am willing to try anything.
I have never had to return a game to someone unfixed.

#101 3 years ago

Thanks.

I am away from the game but I can do that.

Only part I don’t understand is measuring the AC voltage with the new board. Won’t they be exactly the same at J101 and 102 no matter what board is installed?

Seems like only the test point DC voltages would be any different.

#110 3 years ago

Thanks guys.
I will check all this out in a couple of hours.
Away from game for awhile.

#112 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

Well, you've already checked the "power selection plugs" in posts #25 and #35.
The simplest way to check for the correct transformer is by looking at the part number printed on it. It should be a 5610-12835-00.

Part number checks out.

#113 3 years ago

Here are photos of all 4 sides of my input plug.

BABCF2E6-ABEB-4131-B928-68E92FE24D99 (resized).jpegBABCF2E6-ABEB-4131-B928-68E92FE24D99 (resized).jpegCDB11353-5ADB-49EA-A50F-6394F9C9B151 (resized).jpegCDB11353-5ADB-49EA-A50F-6394F9C9B151 (resized).jpegE51118C2-4940-4E7A-B21D-5B9F5A9854D4 (resized).jpegE51118C2-4940-4E7A-B21D-5B9F5A9854D4 (resized).jpegFE490C8D-F0D4-42A4-9DD5-6B76AD3DDF76 (resized).jpegFE490C8D-F0D4-42A4-9DD5-6B76AD3DDF76 (resized).jpeg
#114 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

Here, I decided to measure all the outputs of the transformer. You should disconnect the 3 output connectors (with the machine turned off) and then turn it on. Measure all the pairs I have color identified and compare the voltages. This way we'll see if the transformer is outputting correctly. The gray , gray/white and grey/green wires are center tap, so you'll read 20 Volts on each side and 40 volts from gray to gray/green
In the other connector , all 3 yellow are the same wire and all 4 yellow/white are the same wire so measurement can be taken from any pair. I would still test them all , leaving one probe on the yellow, then touching all yellow/white, and repeat again with all yellow wires. It should always read around 8v.
The 2 purple wires should measure 110 VAC
[quoted image]

Wow.
Well done chart
Thanks a million for taking the time to do this.

I already have them unplugged.
But before I get started is it just as simple as it looks?
Set meter to AC voltage and put both leads in the matching colors?
Even the two purple 110 volt? Always scary measuring this one so I want to double check.

#116 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

Yes it is, set the meter to Volts AC (The wavy line). Take your time, use a third hand tool, or someone's help to hold the connector as you take your measurements. Don't touch the probes together when you are taking a measurement and you'll be fine.

Got it

#119 3 years ago

So far I have just done the purple 110 wires.
They read at 130 volts

All yellow measure 9.26
Red = 11.6
Red/white = 20.3
White = 101.0
Yellow = 65.3
Green/white = 14.8
White/blue = 17.2

Not sure I understand the 20 Vac grey, green and white area
Is that enough?

So looking like I should swap wires 4 and 7?

#122 3 years ago

I can’t swap the wires until tomorrow anyway but I feel strongly the mystery is solved.

#124 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

Well, yes we have enough readings to compare them and you definitely have voltages that are too high.
You next step is to swap wires 4 and 7 back to their rightful places (turn power off first!) and measure the purple again to start with. Then the white pair.
The grey, grey green and grey white all work together. If you measure from grey to grey white, you would get 40 volts. From grey to grey green would be half of that because it is "center tapped". Meaning they made a 40 volt coil, but put a wire right in the middle of that 40 volts, making two 20 volts coils. This is common when you need + and - voltages (mostly used in audio for better amplification). So measure any 2 of the grey wires and get 20 or 40 volts depending on the pair you measured.

Got it.
Tomorrow should be a good day

#129 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Nicely done all.
After correcting the pin locations, measure again before connecting to the power/driver board.
We don't want to damage the wiring, or worse, the transformer.
I've seen J101 installed one pin off, which creates a dead short on the transformer secondary. Melting, and eventually smoke ensues.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Yes I will measure unplugged first

#130 3 years ago

It worked!!!!!
Luckily I had the correct size pin punch on hand so the swap took about 30 seconds.
All output voltages are within 1 volt of spec.

Now to measure TP voltages and then slap the game back together and see if we still get any game resets or DMD issues.

#131 3 years ago

Here are the new TP readings.
TP 6 is still high but not a crazy as before.

TP 1 = 16.7
TP 2 = 5.16
TP 3 = 12.04
TP 4 = .440
TP 6 = 78.8
TP 7 = 23.4
TP 8 = 19.5

Not going to leave it on or play until I hear back from you guys if TP 6 is ok now or not.

#134 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

LOVE that representation of the connectors! Very easy to see without having to find wire colors! Nice work!

OMG you are so correct.
These guys went above and beyond for this crazy mystery and I can’t thank them enough.

#138 3 years ago

Unfortunately we still have game issues.
DMD still going scrambled and the game reset (actually just died) when I hit the game start button.
Rebooted for a second and the game booted up but with scrambled DMD

So the hunt continues

#139 3 years ago

Unplugged the power cord from the DMD and the power going into the DMD controller board.
Was able to play an entire game.
I will keep playing until it resets or not.

#141 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

How about pressing on all the socketed ICs on the MPU board? Probably a good time to reseat all the ribbon cables at all the board connections. I think it is 9 total ribbon cable connections in T2.

This is one of the first things I tried when the game was at its owners house.

So far so good with DMD unplugged.
We shall see.

#143 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

If that is helping, may test the voltages on the DMD power connector disconnected/connected.

4 games in and so far so good.

What pins should have what voltages?

#145 3 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

4 games in and so far so good.
What pins should have what voltages?

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Wouldn't hurt to test them all since it really is only 5 voltages there.

Ok.
What should they be?
I will also test going into DMD board at j606

#147 3 years ago

120.8, 98.8, 0,0,0,O, 66.6

Measured with J606 unplugged from controller board

Game still running. No resets yet

J606 has 15.5 volts and 5 volts maybe this is causing my missing 5 and 12 volt readings

#149 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

J606 is the source of 12 and 5V. Plug them in and measure again.

Yep.
5 and 13 on those pins now

#150 3 years ago

Could a bad Dmd cause resets.
I have a spare known good one.
I already replaced the controller board earlier

Game is still running without a reset yet

#152 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Not likely... Bad DMDs will pull down the high voltage supplies but not 5V or 12V.
Best to start working though this list: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

Got it.
But I swapped displays and played an entire game with no issues
Will require further testing but so far so good.

#156 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Make sure that all of the connectors that are supposed to be there at J116/J117/J118 are there and that the 5/12/G wires that are supposed to be there are solid. Seems like an odd suggestion, I know. Let's be sure anyway.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I will be back with the game tomorrow night. I will check.

#157 3 years ago

Here is what is happening now.
Also included is a photo of J116-118.

Now at power up I get 5 straight chimes and a message that the sound board has a U14 Checksum error.
However the sound works great.
Game starts and plays just fine.
But after awhile the display will start going crazy.
If I shut off the game and restart the display will be just fine sometimes lasting about 4 or 5 games before acting up again.

This is a replacement DMD controller board and a replaced DMD, but the issue still happens.

8CCDC10F-7E30-42A1-8021-0953B778987A (resized).jpeg8CCDC10F-7E30-42A1-8021-0953B778987A (resized).jpeg
#160 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you remove the ribbon cable (while power is off) from the sound board only and see if the DMD still acts up?

Sure

#161 3 years ago

So far so good with ribbon cable unplugged.
But it does introduce a high pitched squeal and what sounds like someone tuning in an AM radio.

After reseating u14 I did not get the error message this time though

#162 3 years ago

Took a small vid of the sound but can’t figure out how to upload to pinside

4 games so far and no screwups.

#164 3 years ago

Well,
Display went crazy on game 7
Had to shut it down

#166 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Sure like to see what the DMD is showing.

Took a short vid but can’t figure out how to get it off my iPhone to Pinside

#167 3 years ago

Got some photos

884425EF-D288-4DD9-B77C-DD32E7ECA285 (resized).jpeg884425EF-D288-4DD9-B77C-DD32E7ECA285 (resized).jpegA158F8BA-A1A7-47D4-B1EF-DDB59F43E648 (resized).jpegA158F8BA-A1A7-47D4-B1EF-DDB59F43E648 (resized).jpegD0B1BDA8-BF3E-46D0-9153-4DE98354CA6A (resized).jpegD0B1BDA8-BF3E-46D0-9153-4DE98354CA6A (resized).jpeg
#168 3 years ago

Also u14 error still there. Just could not hear the 5 bongs with the ribbon cable unplugged

And display is now always messed up. Even at power up

#171 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

It looks like a RAM issue on the DMD controller board, but it is ok without the sound board ribbon cable plugged in?

Still messed up even with cable unplugged

#173 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Then I have to say the 6264 static RAM at U24 needs to be replaced. Can you try another DMD controller board to be sure it does not reappear?

Yes I can. This board was pulled out of a currently working game though. Hope it did not get messed up as well.
U24 was my diagnosis for her old DMD board. Lol
Luckily I ordered 2 new 6264 chips when I placed my last order

I have a brand new rotten dog replacement but hate to possibly damage it as well.

#175 3 years ago

Ok.
I’ll replace the cable tonight and if that does not work I’ll replace the board tomorrow as it is getting a bit late

#177 3 years ago

Lol.
Cable went fast.
Did not work

I’ll try the rotten dog board real quick

#178 3 years ago

No luck.
Even the rotten dog starts off ok then goes crazy even with the new ribbon cable

#181 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

So the MPU is the next to try tomorrow.

sounds good to me

Just put rotten dog back in my Addams Family and all is good. So not the DMD boards fault here

#183 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yes, sleep, if you must.

It’s not me. Lol.
The game is at my 80 year old parents house
Believe me. I would work all night.

#185 3 years ago

Actually I was in Houston all day today.
Should have met up with you.

#187 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I was working today. I'm mowing my mom's yard tomorrow. Free on Saturday!!

I certainly would love to find time.
Just so happens Saturday is my Birthday so will be super busy. But good busy

And I’m sure I have run past you at the Houston Arcade expo once or twice.

#190 3 years ago

Thinking I will start by pulling the MPU board out. Reseating all chips and inspecting it and take good photos for you guys.
Maybe by some miracle reseating the chips will magically work.
Is this the board with the PIA chip that likes to go bad?

#191 3 years ago

Got the board pulled out and just reseated all the socketed chips.
I noticed that U14 and U20 are socketed which will make replacing them a snap if needed.
Also the sound error I’m getting at game boot up is for U14 sound, which I had just assumed was the one on the sound board itself. (Maybe not?)
Close up photos of the front and back side in the next post.

#192 3 years ago
D443E440-615C-4B83-B9E0-E7F8216601F3 (resized).jpegD443E440-615C-4B83-B9E0-E7F8216601F3 (resized).jpeg012982F9-C21F-4F20-9947-C07096CBF523 (resized).jpeg012982F9-C21F-4F20-9947-C07096CBF523 (resized).jpeg6AB4FC0E-9822-438A-B344-3F802F3B8812 (resized).jpeg6AB4FC0E-9822-438A-B344-3F802F3B8812 (resized).jpeg504F3715-BC3E-4662-8836-C69A81AE0FC9 (resized).jpeg504F3715-BC3E-4662-8836-C69A81AE0FC9 (resized).jpeg7A208898-C905-4C7B-BDB2-0DBCA7AE62F0 (resized).jpeg7A208898-C905-4C7B-BDB2-0DBCA7AE62F0 (resized).jpegA7245A5A-D3EB-444A-A930-AF68D8773E20 (resized).jpegA7245A5A-D3EB-444A-A930-AF68D8773E20 (resized).jpeg
#193 3 years ago

No dice.
Display will start to go nuts after a few min.

Gonna need some MPU service advice.

Edit... just checked my stock of IC chips.
I have new U14 and new U20 on hand.
Thought I had a spare PIA but can’t seem to find it.

#195 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

It is not a PIA. It is a 6809 CPU chip that is the 40 pin IC on the MPU.
Were you able to reseat U9? Takes a special tool to remove it.
Willing to try another MPU board in the game? I would. It looks like it could be support chips to the top ICs that may be causing the issue, if it is the MPU, which sure seems like it.

Those are for the switch matrix.

Yes. I can do that.
Only chip I need to swap is the game Rom?

U9 is the only chip I did not mess with. I have the special tool though if needed.

#197 3 years ago

Swapping with my Whitewater now
Fingers crossed

#199 3 years ago

So far so good.
I’ll play a lot of games to test good

#201 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You could "Get the CPU" (T2 reference) and swap into the working board and at least prove/disprove that as a possible failure.

Yea. Still Rock solid with the new board.
Now just a matter of finding the bad component.
Certainly could be the Motorola U9
Or even U4.
I will swap them one at a time when I get more time or if Mr. Hilber stops in and says “ it is most certainly X Chip” lol

Off to do Birthday stuff for awhile.
But at least I know the game can be fixed now.

#203 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This is a very unusual failure.

Enjoy!

Yea. And so was the crazy power supply issue.
I can fix a ton of stuff on my own, but this game had so many tricks up it's sleeve.

#206 3 years ago

Well I had a few min so I swapped the U4 IC chip. Not only did it not work on the display but I lost all GI lamps.

I must have left my chip puller at work so I can’t do the Motorola square chip yet.

#208 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Hope you didn't bend a pin

Not on the IC chip.
I was extra careful and checked several times to make sure they all went in straight.
And they swapped back just fine.

I will have to run to my office and get my IC chip puller for the U9 tomorrow.

#210 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I’m still hanging around here.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

Awesome Chris.
I am going to swap Motorola ASIC chips tomorrow and see it that is the culprit.
I hope so because I am fast running out of socketed chips that could be causing this.

#211 3 years ago

Ok.
I have now swapped out the Motorola ASIC chip as well and the display is still not working.
Anything else I can try before telling the owner I may have to purchase another board.

#213 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I would send it out for repair to chrishibler over buying a new board.
That is definitely an original problem. Not something I don't think I can repair without having it in my hands. No chance that U9 socket is not damaged?

Could be an option.
Looks like replacement MPU boards are $170.
If it was the expensive power driver board then I would for sure send it in.

#216 3 years ago

I will send you a PM.
I did not know you made these. I can certainly tell the quality is very good.
Yes the $170 board I was looking at is a Rottendog. It is a Rottendog that I am putting in the T2 that came out of my Whitewater. It does work great.

#218 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Last thing you want to do is do anything while power is on. If you happen to short the switch matrix to any other voltage, you will find it difficult to locate a replacement part.

I never mess with the board while the power is on. So we are good there

3 weeks later
#220 3 years ago

It saddens me to have to bring this crazy mess back to life, but now I must.
After replacing the MPU and the DMD board the game seemed to be rock solid.
We played probably 80 games on it with no issue.
But now after putting in some LED bulbs the game is going crazy again.
Now at power up it will just give one bong sound and just light up the GI lights.
Every once in awhile it will boot up but the display will either be completely off or have random garbage.
Seriously. What the hell????
Could it be a bad ASIC chip or game Rom causing this? The boards are new and will work in other games.

#222 3 years ago

Reseated and even replaced cable.
Game still will not boot up
All I get is one single tone and the GI lights and the cannon swinging back and forth.
Nothing else.

#224 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

So changed some under the playfield when the game was on?
What LEDs are lit on the PDB and MPU? Maybe blew a fuse on the far upper right on the PDB.

We do not change bulbs with the game on. (Well we did have to wiggle a few in the backbox because the connections are so poor)
But I will check fuses tomorrow. Just have not had the time I need to get to the game lately.
I will also check what LED's are lit as well.

#225 3 years ago

Ok. Here is the fuse and led situation.

All fuses test good.

MPU
D-19 off
D- 20 flashing
D- 21 on

CPU

LED 1 On
LED 2 On
LED 3 off
LED 4 On
LED 5 On
LED 6 On
LED 7 On

#227 3 years ago

Checked all chips on MPU.
Nothing.
Replaced ribbon cables.
Nothing

#229 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

May try wiggling the DMD power connector. Especially Cherry DMD there usually are broken solder joints on this DMD power connector.
Time to be sure the correct voltages again at the DMD power connector.

Ok thanks

#230 3 years ago

DMD connector voltages

pin 1- 117.2
2- 105.8
3- Key
4- .004
5- .004
6- 5.18
7- 12.90
8- 64.8

#232 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Those voltages look great. Yeah, you may have to press on ribbon cables and the MPU parts while power is on. Difficult to tell where the issue could be again. At least it looks like the game has booted fine. May even try bypassing the sound board ribbon cable connection (disconnect with power off) to see if that gains anything.

Thanks
Will do

#233 3 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Thanks
Will do

Any chance something like a corrupted game rom could be causing this?
Just spitballing ideas.

Disconnecting sound board ribbon cable made no difference

#237 3 years ago

Thanks I will mess with the asic chip with the game booted.
The asic socket is of course new. But I am using her chip from her old board in it.

#239 3 years ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Is the old chip corroded(have any green discoloration on any of the pins) in any way? Broken? Cracked?

I will have to pull out the board and asic chip to tell.
But no amount of pushing on it or the other MPU chips will make the game boot.

Edit. Chip looks great as does the socket.
I may just order a new chip as I don’t have a spare and really don’t want to mess with my working games anymore then I have to.

#241 3 years ago

Game is not booting.
We only get GI lights and the cannon swings back and forth forever.

ASIC chip is $49
If it is indeed the problem.

#245 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

+1 on the repair.
If your CPU board was working correctly but now does not start then good candidates for a reason why it no longer works are:
- U10 = reset generator / supervisor
- U9 = ASIC
- U4 = processor (68B09E)
- U6 = game EPROM (27C040)
- U8 = SRAM (6264 or 62256)
If you're not comfortable working on these boards the best advice is to send it out for repair.
As mentioned there are many reputable repair people available (Chris Hibler, Clive @ Coin Op Cauldron or Rob Anthony). FWIW: I can also do repairs but I'm not in the repair business and really only do it by special request. I recommend asking those that normally do repairs and if they're back logged and cannot meet your time requirements I would consider taking the job.

Thanks.
I have no trouble replacing IC chips.
I’ve done tons.
Only board that ever defeated me was a CPU board that a cap had destroyed the traces on both sides.
Mr Hilber took care of that for me.
I guess I will start with ASIC and move around from there.
Unless there is a way to test the chips without a scope.

The MPU is a new Rottendog only the removable chips came from her game

#247 3 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

In my experience if you have known good ICs for the above (software and execution related) and the board does not POST (power on self test) to a blinking D20 then it's probably a problem with either the data or address bus (typically either a broken trace or one of the ICs attached to the bus).
When working on the CPU board always isolate it from the rest of the machine. Only connect what is absolutely necessary to power the board. That would be J210 and nothing else. No ribbon cables and no switch connectors. Not until you get D20 to start blinking.
I just saw that you do mention that the cannon is swinging back and forth. That would indicate that your CPU board is actually working correctly because that would be under software control.

Yes D 20 is blinking.
Game seems to boot up with only a single tone.
But only GI and swinging cannon operate.

#251 3 years ago

Awesome.
I did not realize a blinking D20 was good and no one picked up on it from my initial post above.
Back to DMD board crap.

#252 3 years ago

Don’t think it is DMD board.
New board makes no difference.
Unplugging all DMD cables has no effect.

Game is not fully booted.
Not just that the DMD is blank but coin door buttons have no effect.
Plus no controlled lamps anywhere.

#257 3 years ago

Thanks guys.
I will take readings at the mentioned points.
I did of course try the left button on the coin door with no luck.

#259 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

So can you test the other 3 coin door buttons? Need to see whether problem is with one or all 4.
Now it seems pretty important to measure the 12v out of both DMD controller boards that were being used, whichever game they may be in currently.

I tried all 4 coin door buttons. None of them worked.
I will be home in an hour or so.
Which pin is 12volt out on the DMD board?

#261 3 years ago

Pin 7 on the DMD board is 13.03

TP 3 on driver board is 12.03
TP 1 on driver board is 16.3

J606 pins 6 and 7 are 16.4

#263 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you measure the 12v on the other DMD controller board you were using to test with? Just making sure that was not also damaged since it was in the project game.

This is the replacement DMD board

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you measure the 12v on the other DMD controller board you were using to test with? Just making sure that was not also damaged since it was in the project game.

This is the replacement/test controller board. The other one is her bad one to begin with.
Is this one testing bad now with the numbers I gave?

#264 3 years ago

Sorry last post sent before I was finished typing on my phone. Lol

#266 3 years ago

Ok J 604 pin 7 measures 104 volts. Yikes, can that be correct?

I would have to put her old board back in the game to measure it. It is just on my work bench.
Im happy to pop it back in and measure but I would bet it has the same output.

#268 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Seems it should be the 2nd pin from the other end of the connector.

Thanks. Will get it in the morning.
I looked all over for a pin 1 marking but could not find it.
Feel stupid but there seemed to be no pin 1 indicator on the board.

#270 3 years ago

Here is the story on Pin 7
At game start up it is is at 12.30
Then slowly climbs up to 13.14 before staying fairly steady.

#271 3 years ago

Looking like Game rom issue.
I put this MPU board in my Whitewater and it booted up everything just fine. So the ASIC is good
Then on a whim I put the board back in T2 with my Whitewater rom installed and it booted up great.
Well except for no DMD still but I think I may have a high power issue because Whitewater has a color DMD that does not use high power.

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