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(Topic ID: 277735)

T2 DMD issues and game resetting as well.


By Arcade

31 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 219 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 days ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 219 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
#1 31 days ago

Just recently took on a T2 to fix up with 2 issues. DMD is Garbled as in photo, and game will reset periodically.
Below is what I have done so far with the DMD issue.

1. Re-seated J101 and 102 as per pinwiki for the game reset issue. Have not pulled the main board off yet to check solder joints.
2. Swapped all ribbon cables with known working ones.
3. Swapped the DMD itself with a known working one.
4. installed a new DMD high power replacement board that just fits over the top. (also pictured here).
5. Checked all voltages below are my readings on the 8 pin DMD connector and the main board test points.

Pin 1 = 113.2
Pin 2 = 91.5
Pin 3 = Key
Pin 4 = Ground
Pin 5 = Ground
Pin 6 = 7.07
Pin 7 = 12.83
Pin 8 = 64.9

TP1 = 18.53
TP2 = 6.92
TP3 = 12.02
TP4 = .615
TP5 = Ground
TP6 = 87.8
TP7 = 26.2
TP8 = 20.6

Any help with my next steps is much appreciated.
IMG-8934 (resized).jpgIMG-8935 (resized).jpg

#2 31 days ago

I am now really suspecting a failed 6264 static RAM at U24 because at startup my display does look exactly like this before changing to the lines.

If anyone has a link to this IC chip I would appreciate it. All that comes up when I search for it is NVRam replacements.

IMG-8936 (resized).jpg

#3 31 days ago

Took my DMD controller board out of a working game and installed in T2.
Display works great. I will replace u24 once I find someone that sells one.
And if that does not work I guess a new board. (which I can only find at Big Daddy so far).

#4 31 days ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I will replace u24 once I find someone that sells one.

Support Ed @ GPE.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6264LP-70
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6264LP-55

Otherwise ... search for "AS6C6264-55PCN" on your favorite electronics merchant website.

#5 31 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Support Ed @ GPE.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6264LP-70
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=6264LP-55
Otherwise ... search for "AS6C6264-55PCN" on your favorite electronics merchant website.

Thank you so much.
Will the 70 work just as good or better then the 55?

#6 31 days ago

I think either will work. I don't know what the actual timing requirements are in terms of nanoseconds. I think the original ICs are rated at 100ns so either 70ns or 55ns is faster and compatible. I have used the AS6C6264-55PCN which is a 55ns part.

#7 31 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I think either will work. I don't know what the actual timing requirements are in terms of nanoseconds. I think the original ICs are rated at 100ns so either 70ns or 55ns is faster and compatible. I have used the AS6C6264-55PCN which is a 55ns part.

Got it.
Thanks again.

#8 31 days ago

Well after leaving my good DMD board in with the game in for awhile now the display is starting to act crazy again and the game reset.

So I am going to order a main board upgrade kit and replace the common failure points on the main board.

#9 31 days ago

I don't know what you are calling the Main board. There is a MPU and power driver board.

With power off, press on all socketed parts (U9, game ROM and CPU chip) on the MPU board. This is potentially a problem.

If it still fails, measure the voltage C31 on the MPU board, with power on. What is the voltage? If 5v is lower than 4.9v, then reseat J101, J114 and J210, as these are usually the source of low voltage that cause a WPC game to reset.

#10 31 days ago

This is supposed to be 5volts. What were you using as ground when you were testing the voltages at the DMD? Best to wedge the one meter lead under the ground braid wire in the bottom of the backbox so you don't have to hold both leads.

#11 31 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This is supposed to be 5volts. What were you using as ground when you were testing the voltages at the DMD? Best to wedge the one meter lead under the ground braid wire in the bottom of the backbox so you don't have to hold both leads.

This.
I had it wedged under the ground braid.

#12 31 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I don't know what you are calling the Main board. There is a MPU and power driver board.
With power off, press on all socketed parts (U9, game ROM and CPU chip) on the MPU board. This is potentially a problem.
If it still fails, measure the voltage C31 on the MPU board, with power on. What is the voltage? If 5v is lower than 4.9v, then reseat J101, J114 and J210, as these are usually the source of low voltage that cause a WPC game to reset.

Main board is the giant ass board with all the test points on it. Power Driver.
What is C31 and How do you measure it?
I have already reseated J101, j114 and j210.
I have also already pressed on all socket chips.

#13 30 days ago

I don't see how you came up with 7volts on the 5volt rail. That is why I was asking where you were using ground from. Ground braid I see is what you did do, that's great.

Quoted from Arcade:

What is C31 and How do you measure it?

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

measure the voltage C31 on the MPU board, with power on. What is the voltage? If 5v is lower than 4.9v, then reseat J101, J114 and J210, as these are usually the source of low voltage that cause a WPC game to reset.

C(capacitor)31 on the MPU board. Still using the ground braid for ground, use your red meter lead and touch the C31 on (+) side, which you will see labeled on the MPU board. What does the voltage measure? Just wanted to be sure you see the same voltage on the MPU as you do going to the DMD or not.

#14 29 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I don't see how you came up with 7volts on the 5volt rail. That is why I was asking where you were using ground from. Ground braid I see is what you did do, that's great.

C(capacitor)31 on the MPU board. Still using the ground braid for ground, use your red meter lead and touch the C31 on (+) side, which you will see labeled on the MPU board. What does the voltage measure? Just wanted to be sure you see the same voltage on the MPU as you do going to the DMD or not.

It reads 6.30 at C31

#15 29 days ago

Very unusual. Best to unhook J114 so it no longer sends too much voltage to the other boards until this is fixed.

Can you post a picture of the driver board? Also can you test the 5volt test point that is near J114 after disconnecting it?

Just my opinion here. I do not think that driver board repair kit you plan on purchasing will help. The kit is made to repair low voltage, but in this case, the 5volts is measuring too high. Even with that, there is a good chance to damage the board as what comes in the kit. The parts are quite difficult to remove without damaging the board.

So this is a very good step in measuring voltages to really determine where an issue may be coming from.

#16 29 days ago

Yes
I will post a pic and the tp voltage reading in a bit

#17 29 days ago

Test point reads 5.86 with J114 unplugged
Here is a photo of the board

145B38B7-AD23-4415-AFD7-089BE6F5D902 (resized).jpeg
#18 29 days ago

Here is a photo of MPU as well

0D1C9DBA-E025-4EC4-85DD-F2FBAB04DDAF (resized).jpeg
#19 28 days ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Test point reads 5.86 with J114 unplugged

Ok. Thanks! That is still measuring too high. I can tell C5 was changed, and that happens to be in the 5volt circuit. So with that, likely the BR2 was changed, even though I can't really tell from the top view.

I ask now that you remove the driver board and take a picture of the backside of the board. I suspect that someone jumpered something wrong, most likely because of damage to the board after replacing C5/BR2, causing the 5volts to be too high.

#20 28 days ago

Ok.
I noticed c5 had been replaced as well.
I can remove the board tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for the help.

When my Addams Family had a 5 volt issue years ago it was the little c2 cap just to the left of c5 that had leaked and destroyed the traces under it.

As an aside, this game has been running fine in the house it is in for years without anyone working on it. Or so she tells me.
All the resets just started happening recently.

#21 28 days ago

No rush here. But before you remove the board, I had another thought.

Does the serial number label (back of the game or on the right inside of the cabinet just above the power switch) show this as a 120v or 220v game? If it is 220, then you'll have to change jumpers on the input of the transformer most likely. Some of the voltages you measured that are shown on the OP are starting to lead me to this.

But if it is 120v, most likely what I stated in post #19 will likely be the correct path.

#22 28 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

No rush here. But before you remove the board, I had another thought.
Just wondering as well...does the serial number label (back of the game or on the right inside of the cabinet just above the power switch) show this as a 120v or 220v game? If it is 220, then you'll have to change jumpers on the input of the transformer most likely. But if it is 120v, most likely what I stated in post #19 will likely be the correct path.

I will check that tomorrow as well.
But she has owned this game for many many years with no issues.

#23 28 days ago

Ok. It is quite strange to see some higher than normal voltages, not just the 5volts.

#24 28 days ago

Had to run up next door where the game is and I’ll be damned.
Great guess.
Now how to fix ?
19F1AC04-E179-4CEB-B30F-30C74B3657F5 (resized).jpeg

#25 28 days ago

Next, need to see how the input is wired up to the transformer. Just follow that black and white wire from that power distribution box to the 9 pin connector going toward the front of the transformer.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Early_WPC_Transformers_.289_pin_connection.29

The first picture is what we are wanting it to be.
pasted_image (resized).png

I think it is wired up for 220v, which likely is like this.
pasted_image (resized).png

#26 28 days ago

That will be a tomorrow task.
But I will get on it as soon as I can.
Thanks.

#27 28 days ago

I'm in no hurry since I should be at work tomorrow. That is assuming this new hurricane doesn't slam Houston this time. They sky has gotten a bit quite the past hour, but that may not be the end of it.

#28 28 days ago

Same here. Just up the road a bit.
Should be a non event for us here in Beaumont.
Galveston and the surge are the concern.

#29 28 days ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Should be a non event for us here in Beaumont.

Good. You'll need a break from storms the rest of the year.

#30 28 days ago

If the transformer primary jumper settings are set to 230V (Europe) then the transformer secondary should output a voltage that is 1/2 the desired voltage - i.e. it should be too low. Almost certainly too low for the digital logic to operate correctly.

I think more likely someone perhaps set it to low line 105V (Japan) and that when you shoot 110V through the primary it will output a slightly higher voltage based on the ratio of 105:115 (actual output depends on the line voltage in your house).

However ... the LM323 is *SUPPOSED* to regulate the voltage to +5V REGARDLESS of the rectified input voltage level.

You can also check for AC ripple output from the bridge rectifiers as that may give the regulator a little of grief.

#31 28 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

I think more likely someone perhaps set it to low line 105V (Japan) and that when you shoot 110V through the primary it will output a slightly higher voltage based on the ratio of 105:115 (actual output depends on the line voltage in your house).

Thank you for jumping back in. So if it is set for 105v, what do you expect the jumpers to be set as since it is not on Pinwiki?

#32 28 days ago

If the transformer is not wired correctly for 115 volts, then there would not be a need to remove the driver board at this time.

Also, the fuse in the power distribution box that is labeled 220v also has another label that states 4 amp. This fuse needs to change to 8 amp slo blo when set for 115 volts. So can you look to see if 8 amp fuse is currently in that fuse holder?

#33 28 days ago

Lets see a pic of the power selection plug.
Other possibility is that the back of the board has the resistor hack done to raise the 5V.
BTW... You are in great hands with the help DA and PM have given you.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#34 28 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Thank you for jumping back in. So if it is set for 105v, what do you expect the jumpers to be set as since it is not on Pinwiki?

The schematic describes the configurations.

transformer_low_line_voltage.jpg

When looking at your 115V configuration take the wires in pins 7, 8 and 9 and move them to 4, 5 and 6. That's the low line voltage selection.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This fuse needs to change to 8 amp slo blo when set for 115 volts. So can you look to see if 8 amp fuse is currently in that fuse holder?

This is good advice. It's for correctness. It's fine to under fuse the main line fuse so it isn't 100% necessary but always good to restore the machine to the correct factory configuration. I do this on all re-import machines.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Lets see a pic of the power selection plug.

100% agree with this. A picture is worth 1,000 words. I would like more people to post more pictures when they ask for help but alas that doesn't seem to happen too often.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Other possibility is that the back of the board has the resistor hack done to raise the 5V.

I have done this hack (for someone who requested I do it to their board). It didn't raise the voltage to the > +6V range. It only raised it to about +5.1V.

#35 28 days ago

Ok. Had a few extra min to run by the house and get a photo of the plug.
Also checked the fuse in the box and it is an 8 amp slow blow.
Not a 4 like stated on the box.

7F3BA82A-4E0F-407A-BC3F-5833C54D0E58 (resized).jpeg
#36 28 days ago

Well, this is odd. It definitely started to sound like the input was wired different than 115v.

Looks like we will probably will need the picture of the back of the power driver board.

#37 28 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Well, this is odd. It definitely started to sound like the input was wired different than 115v.
Looks like we will probably will need the picture of the back of the power driver board.

Ok.
I will take that out later today

#38 28 days ago

And away we go.
Only 1 jumper wire.
Here is the entire backside of the driver board and 4 close ups of each corner.

0C4461B1-8262-49D0-B71C-0BF7F4B0DD17 (resized).jpeg175577BD-6D42-4A73-B794-D792C22BF2FB (resized).jpeg286F9C54-00A7-4620-B07E-3B3EECD24360 (resized).jpeg54EC0E63-A533-4A2D-9641-EF38EC4A5D0D (resized).jpegE2CBDFB7-B2A8-41AD-8FFC-CE840DCFFB65 (resized).jpeg
#39 28 days ago

Hard to imagine having a failed transformer in this case. Can I bug you for a picture of the transformer?

#40 28 days ago
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#41 28 days ago

Any chance your meter has low battery indicator on? That can cause some strange measurements at times.

#42 28 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Any chance your meter has low battery indicator on? That can cause some strange measurements at times.

I can put in a new battery.
Edit. New battery installed.
Want me to put the board back in and test the test points again with J114 unplugged?

#43 27 days ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I can put in a new battery.
Edit. New battery installed.
Want me to put the board back in and test the test points again with J114 unplugged?

Yes, please. I think you only need to plug in J101 and J102 on the right side to measure all the voltages on the board as you did in the 1st post.

#44 27 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yes, please. I think you only need to plug in J101 and J102 on the right side to measure all the voltages on the board as you did in the 1st post.

Will do

#45 27 days ago

Here are the new readings just J101 and 102.

TP 1 = .997
TP 2 = 5.03
TP 3 = 12.04
TP 4 = .371
TP 6 = 90.6
TP 7 = 27.1

So TP 6 and 7 are way off base from what I can tell.

#46 27 days ago

Oh, I forgot the top left J112 does bring in the other 12V for optos and motors. Can you go ahead and connect in everything on the top of the driver board. Actually, you probably could go with all but J114.

#47 27 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Oh, I forgot the top left J112 does bring in the other 12V for optos and motors. Can you go ahead and connect in everything on the top of the driver board. Actually, you probably could go with all but J114.

Sure

#48 27 days ago

Same readings on TP 6 and 7

-1
#49 27 days ago

TP2 is now 5.02v which is more like it.
What are TP1 and TP8?

#50 27 days ago

Sorry forgot about TP8. It is 22.1
TP 1 is now 18.6

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