(Topic ID: 292422)

System one displays flickering


By GT40

17 days ago

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  • 11 posts
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  • Latest reply 9 days ago by northvibe
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    Screen Shot 2021-04-28 at 7.58.04 pm (resized).png

    #1 17 days ago

    Hi All

    On my Gottlieb System one Count Down every time I use the flippers the #2 and #4 displays flicker. They work fine but just flicker across the whole displays. #1 & #2 are fine. There is no flickering if the flippers aren't activated.

    I am running a Ni-Wumpf CPU and Rottendog power supply.

    Could this be a grounding issue?

    Any advice appreciated.

    Paul

    #2 17 days ago

    Have you repinned any of the connectors?
    Are these original displays?

    Have you tried moving/swapping displays to see if the flipper follows the display or stays at the player?

    #3 16 days ago

    Hi Northvibe

    Thanks for the response.

    I recently re-pinned A1 J6 as the game wouldn't start and that fixed the problem. I have swapped the displays but same issue so after some research I assume it may be something to do with the J3 connectors on the CPU?

    Also I have read that System ones have grounding issues and I can't see that any of the boards are grounded directly to the backboard ground so is it a good idea to do that?

    Screen Shot 2021-04-28 at 7.58.04 pm (resized).png
    #4 16 days ago
    Quoted from GT40:

    Hi Northvibe
    Thanks for the response.
    I recently re-pinned A1 J6 as the game wouldn't start and that fixed the problem. I have swapped the displays but same issue so after some research I assume it may be something to do with the J3 connectors on the CPU?
    Also I have read that System ones have grounding issues and I can't see that any of the boards are grounded directly to the backboard ground so is it a good idea to do that?[quoted image]

    I'd say the main thing is to fuse the small transformer, repin (all?) most connectors specially the interconnect, rebuilt the power supply and make sure grounds are done.

    Here are wikis for help

    https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1

    http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/

    those will go over how to add grounds and where, how to fuse the small transformer and common issues. sys1's once fixed up are pretty bullet proof but when they are a basket case, seem daunting. I usually like my bally/stern's repin most if not all connectors because those pins corrode and oxidize and as you noticed can cause crazy issues.

    #5 15 days ago

    I'm not sure what you mean by "fuse" the small transformer?

    #6 15 days ago
    Quoted from GT40:

    I'm not sure what you mean by "fuse" the small transformer?

    This modification
    https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Small_Transformer_Meltdown

    You add fuses to two power lines off the small transformer to protect it from melting down/breaking

    #7 10 days ago

    Hi northvibe

    Looks like mine already has the 1amp fuse (see attached).

    I replaced all the playfield globes with LED's and that seems to have fixed the issue. I assume because they take less power away from the displays?

    Why do you think that has helped?

    Paul

    fuse (resized).jpg
    #8 10 days ago

    Also with regards to your comment here... "repin (all?) most connectors specially the interconnect"... what is the interconnect?

    #9 10 days ago

    If you read both of those sys1 wiki's, there are some processes to verify power.

    You'll want to unplug J1 off the power supply board, and test the power at that plug. Then when verified good. Unplug J2 and J3, plug in J1 to power supply board, and verify voltage at those J2 and J3 pins.

    The interconnect harness is the plug between the mpu/cpu and the driver board.

    What I started to realize is these old games have soooo many issues with pin corrosion (and bally/sterns) that repinning all connectors is just a tedious but great way to skip any weird issues that those may bring.

    gottliebsys1 (resized).png

    As for the fuse on the small transformer. It is recommended to install 3, the one you have is the stock one, but doesn't protect the other two power lines
    https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Recommended_Fuses_to_Install_to_Protect_the_Small_Transformer

    4.3.1.1 Recommended Fuses to Install to Protect the Small Transformer
    It is recommended to install three fuse holders to protect the small transformer from potential shorts.

    110v/115v/120v: These lugs are the incoming voltage to the small transformer (for US games, it should be 115v). It should have a 1 Amp fuse. On earlier games, this fuse is missing, so it will need to be added. Gottlieb included it starting with Solar Ride and all later System 1 games. However, it's possible that someone may have swapped in a transformer panel from an older game into a newer game, so in that situation, the fuse could still be missing in a later game.
    Lug 6: This is the outgoing voltage to the power supply for 11.5 VAC. It should have a 2 Amp fuse. This ultimately becomes +5VDC, when rectified and regulated by the power supply. It passes through CR1 & CR2 on the power supply.
    Lug 7: This is the outgoing voltage to the power supply for 14 VAC. It should have a 3/4 Amp fuse. This ultimately becomes -12VDC, when rectified and regulated by the power supply. It passes through CR3 & CR4 on the power supply.
    Desolder the wire from the transformer lug. Position a fuse holder (such as a Bussmann / Eaton BK/S-8002-1-R with solder lugs), make sure the desoldered wire will comfortably reach one of the lugs, screw down the fuse holder (a #6 3/8" or 1/2" wood screw), then solder the wire. Cut a piece of wire (about 5" in length) to connect the other end of the fuse holder to the appropriate transformer lug. For lugs 6 & 7, use 18awg wire. For the incoming voltage, use 16awg wire. Strip and solder the wires to the appropriate fuses and transformer lugs.

    When done, install the fuses, and with a multimeter, perform continuity tests from the original wire to the transformer lug. As a safety measure to protect the electronics before turning on the game, disconnect the power supply, MPU, driver board, and sound board (if applicable). Then, turn on the power, and use a multimeter to test the voltages to ensure the voltages are correct and going to the right connector pins.

    Lastly, be sure to add labels for each fuse holder to indicate what the type and value of each installed fuse needs to be.

    #10 9 days ago

    OK thanks for all your help.

    #11 9 days ago

    Ya! If the power supply board isn’t outputting the right voltage which is very common, there could be issues.

    I’ve added the 2 fuses to every sys1 I work on now, just in case. As those small transformers are not available anymore

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