(Topic ID: 132794)

System 9 Comet Flippers Not Working

By Piparoo

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by vid1900
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

My apologies if this has been asked and answered before but I wasn't able to find an answer to the issue I'm currently having.

My comet's flippers were dead on arrival. The wires on the left side flipper button switch had broken off so I resoldered them to the switch. I also replaced the fuse on the flipper power board that had blown. Now I have one flipper that is weak but playable and another that barely moves. There isn't a mechanical issue preventing the flipper that barely moves from doing its thing. The weird thing is that, at first the right flipper was weak but playable and the left was barely moving. A few minutes later, the left flipper is now the one that is weak but playable and the right is barely moving.

Any suggestions before I buy a new flipper power board?

#2 8 years ago
Quoted from Piparoo:

My apologies if this has been asked and answered before but I wasn't able to find an answer to the issue I'm currently having.
My comet's flippers were dead on arrival. The wires on the left side flipper button switch had broken off so I resoldered them to the switch. I also replaced the fuse on the flipper power board that had blown. Now I have one flipper that is weak but playable and another that barely moves. There isn't a mechanical issue preventing the flipper that barely moves from doing its thing. The weird thing is that, at first the right flipper was weak but playable and the left was barely moving. A few minutes later, the left flipper is now the one that is weak but playable and the right is barely moving.
Any suggestions before I buy a new flipper power board?

Do you have 50V at the flippers? If yes then no need for the power board. there is rarely a failure in these, as they really don't have anything to fail except the bridge.

The week movement seems like you are only getting the hold side of the coil. Check your EOS switches, make sure they are correctly spaced and normally CLOSED. Also comet originally used series wound flipper coils, if the coils have been replaced make sure the wires are in the correct positions for the new parallel flipper coils, as the lug positions changed from the old coils to the new coils. Old Coils had one diode between the outer two lugs and the common was the middle lug, new coils the common is on the farther non banded side lug with two diodes one between the center and each outer lug.

The entire flipper circuit on comet is mechanical, so high power and low power is strictly decided by the EOS switches on the flipper coils.

And as a warning, the switch matrix switches for the machine to detect lane changes are attached to the flippers as well, meaning you have nothing but a spacer separating the 5V switch matrix and the 50V flipper power less then 1/4 of an inch from each other. Many, many CPU's have been destroyed by carelessly touching the entire switch stack together on a flipper placing the 50V into the 5V processor. You've been warned....

#3 8 years ago

Thanks for the quick reply. I checked the eos switches and they are normally closed. Not sure if the coils have been replaced or not. One coil has one diode across outer lugs and the other has two diodes. I've attached a couple pics. Does the wiring to the lugs look correct?

Left flipper coil
FullSizeRender.jpgFullSizeRender.jpg

Right flipper coil
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#4 8 years ago

What is the part number on the left flipper coil?
Is their a 2.2 Mfd (flipper caps are usually yellow) capacitor on the right flipper EOS switch?

#5 8 years ago

31262-i.jpg31262-i.jpg
The flippers should look like this, If the coils are both parallel wound (the right is, I believe the left is too since it has a new orange wrapper).

The power wire goes to the outside lug of the flipper with the banded end of the diodes, and the wire from the cabinet switch/button goes to the opposite outer lug (non banded side of the two diodes). The middle lug has the EOS switch, and the non banded outer lug has the eos switch, and across the eos switch is a 2.2 Mfd cap.

If the flipper is parallel there must be two diodes as shown, and must be a capacitor.

If the cap is missing then your EOS switch will need filing, as it has pitted and oxidized.

If the wiring is wrong you will only get a hold voltage, one flipper wired wrong can affect the other flipper.

Note the orientation of the flipper in the picture, and where the wiring bracket to coil stop position is.

The left flipper, if parallel, will need to be checked for the correct place for the two diodes it needs (the one is definitely in the wrong place). You will have to look at the wire coming out of the coil to determine the placement of the diodes and the location of their bands to repair that coil. Assuming that coil is still in working order.

You will need to measure that coil without being wired in. The high power side should have 4 Ohms resistance, the low about 160 ohms.

See Vid's guide to rebuilding flippers....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

#6 8 years ago

OK, you've got a few different things going on here so let's break it down:

1. Comet came from the factory with FL23/600-30/2600 coils (the old series kind).

2. You have one newer Parallel coil (a FL-11630) that is not factory.

3. BUT the Parallel coil can actually be an upgrade. These latter coils can be used with a 2.2mfd capacitor to help protect the EOS Switch from wear, even though that circuit came out years after Comet was produced.

4. Comet needs strong flippers because of all the ramps (especially the corkscrew ramp on the left).

Would you like to do a flipper rebuild with capacitor upgrade?

#7 8 years ago

The part number on the left coil is fl-11630. I'm guessing there isn't a capacitor as both eos switches looked white with oxidation. I was going to replace the flipper plunger and links, sleeves and stops anyway. Maybe I should just replace the coils and eos switches and be done with it. Are you aware of any folks who sell the eos switch with a capacitor already wired?

#8 8 years ago

You could just buy 2 of these (you need a left and a right) :

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172

with FL11630 coils

and A-12111 coil stops

Email Terry and ask him to substitute the EOS Switch in the above kit for this one:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

Finally buy 2 of these caps:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=177

-

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Would you like to do a flipper rebuild with capacitor upgrade?

Yes! The left side coil had a broken "thin wire" to the lug. I'm going to replace it. I've been reviewing your fantastic guide. Now I'm trying to find the right parts. From your guide, it's not clear to me what Williams system flipper parts I need to get in order to do the upgrade. Sorry if I missed it somewhere.

You just answered my question

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from Piparoo:

You just answered my question

I'm psychic like that.

#11 8 years ago

Thanks again. I just spoke with Terry and ordered the parts.

#12 8 years ago

You are going to love having great flippers on your game, that's for sure.

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